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***OMT TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR vs KAA Gent - 2nd Leg***

@Will De Vos like your posts! And all congratulations on Gent punching above their weight. You guys deserve it.

Two questions: if it wasn't luck, what was it that got you a red, a corner that wasn't and own goal?

Second, who won the PL title last season? An elite team or a mid table side?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
Last year, Leicester won but apart from them how many different teams won the League since Blackburn did? Only 4?

And luck:
- that red card wasn't luck. A player who fouls that way shows a lack of quality. Mental strongness is a quality. And having to substitute one of our best players with a 17 year old debutant wasn't very good for our team neither.
- the own goal: our coach practised this. It wasn' a corner just put in front of the goal but it was studied. Kane was forced to head it away because otherwise Simon got the ball. (Our coach always does this kind of stuff in Europe. Last year they did this, and they practised 3 days upon it: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BFC9F122FA33C9A4F550BFC9&fsscr=0&FORM=VDMCNR
- we were lucky that we got the corner we didn't deserve, we were lucky with several referee decisions and we were definitely lucky you missed a lot of big opportunities.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
@Will De Vos like your posts! And all congratulations on Gent punching above their weight. You guys deserve it.

Two questions: if it wasn't luck, what was it that got you a red, a corner that wasn't and own goal?

Second, who won the PL title last season? An elite team or a mid table side?


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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A red card isn't lucky unless it wasn't deserved mate

That wa stonewall and foolish

I agree about the corner as no team has a corner routine that plays on OGs and their player wouldn't have been as likely to score form it

Hell their second goal even took a deflection off Dier which shows how the game was going but you get what you deserve in footy
 
Will De Vos said:
Thank you.

To be honest, I think the reason why English teams in general do not live up to their expectations in Europe is because a lot of their (English) players are overpriced and overrated and because the Premier League is overrated (or better: other Leagues are underrated in England).
The PL is far better in marketing its league and therefor has much more money than other leagues: they have some of the best non-English players but in general pay too much for them (last year some team payed 8 million for Oulare, who would probably not even make the 2nd team of AA Gent!) and they definitely pay too much money for average English players. Because they pay a lot of money for English players, they expect them to be better than other players, but they simply are not (as we can see in European and World Championships).

On another Spurs-forum, I read Tottenham has 10 times more money than Gent and therefor has far better players, managers, accomodations, ... . That is true but because a lot of that money is paid to English players, the average price of those English players is higher than their value. Good English players are overpriced. Also, the difference between the best players of a European team and the average players of a team like Tottenham is not as big as the difference in money that's paid for them.

This is no explanation why Tottenham went out, but I think that's why English football does not do as well as they should in Europe. I do not believe that it is because they underestimate the teams they play or they see the EL as a MickeyMouseLeague.
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I can't dance with most of that, i have said/thought for several years now that our Lge is vastly overrated ( mostly by the likes of Sky which has dripped down to fans). As for English players we only have to look at our failures at national level and the lack of interest in English players going to play in Europe for the really big teams to see how much we ( the English fans) overate the majority of them.
 
parklane1 said:
I can't dance with most of that, i have said/thought for several years now that our Lge is vastly overrated ( mostly by the likes of Sky which has dripped down to fans). As for English players we only have to look at our failures at national level and the lack of interest in English players going to play in Europe for the really big teams to see how much we ( the English fans) overate the majority of them.
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Good points but I also think the intensity of the PL is a big factor. Practically every player that comes over here from the continent acknowledges this.
 
Will De Vos said:
And luck:

- the own goal: our coach practised this. It wasn' a corner just put in front of the goal but it was studied. Kane was forced to head it away because otherwise Simon got the ball. (Our coach always does this kind of stuff in Europe. Last year they did this, and they practised 3 days upon it: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BFC9F122FA33C9A4F550BFC9&fsscr=0&FORM=VDMCNR.
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Well done on the result @Will De Vos

I wish our coach would spend some time with the team practicing corners and free kicks. Who was it that said, "the more I practice, the luckier I get! " Funny that - but so true. Poch, please take note.
 
Glenda's Legs said:
I don't think creativity and attacking intent were the biggest problems last night. We created 25 opportunities (some a bit on the ambitious side admittedly) but only managed to get 5 on target. Composure and finishing and decision making were the big culprits.
I fully agree that we need to mix up the free kick takers a bit. Having said that, Toby's attempt last night was on a par with Eriksen's ability to hit the wall. Get Dier on them now and again.
I think the 'learning' thing is an ongoing evolution. Poch is instilling a winning mentality in the players. We saw it last night in attitude if not result. We have seen it previously. The consistency will come. As for Poch himself learning - I believe he is. We have seen him go from 'no plan B' (to coin a phrase) to, for example,varying formations. And he is definitely making substitutions earlier compared to last season, even if we as fans are still sometimes left scratching our collective heads at some of his decisions. Things aren't going to suddenly change overnight but when you look where we are now, both Poch and the team have come on enormously. Still a work inprogress course but I don't doubt that every set back is seen as part of the learning curve for players and manager alike.
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I certainly hope you are right. My concern remains that Poch has never won anything as a coach. All our main rivals have coaches who have strong track records. Can you instill a winners mentality if you have never experienced it yourself? Does he have that crucial X factor? I hope so and really want him to succeed, but he still shows some naievity in big games and attention to detail remains suspect imo.
 
Will De Vos said:
Last year, Leicester won but apart from them how many different teams won the League since Blackburn did? Only 4?

And luck:
- that red card wasn't luck. A player who fouls that way shows a lack of quality. Mental strongness is a quality. And having to substitute one of our best players with a 17 year old debutant wasn't very good for our team neither.
- the own goal: our coach practised this. It wasn' a corner just put in front of the goal but it was studied. Kane was forced to head it away because otherwise Simon got the ball. (Our coach always does this kind of stuff in Europe. Last year they did this, and they practised 3 days upon it: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...0BFC9F122FA33C9A4F550BFC9&fsscr=0&FORM=VDMCNR
- we were lucky that we got the corner we didn't deserve, we were lucky with several referee decisions and we were definitely lucky you missed a lot of big opportunities.
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We played most of the game with one less player. That has got to be big help, and not something Gent control. Therefore there was some good fortune. The only way anyone can claim, @Befordspurs too, that an opposition red isn't fortunate for a foul, is if the team are purposefully winding up players. If it was planned by Gent to deliberately to wind Alli up for example. A red for a handball stopping a goal might be different, that isn't as fortunate.

But ultimately I'm just bitter, take you're success, Gent defended superbly, and got a goal from their only chance in the first half. Your team also deserve praise for their application in the home leg, which was probably more important. As Spurs defeated themselves in the second leg - after the professional performance from Gent in the first leg which put pressure on our young side.
 
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parklane1 said:
I can't dance with most of that, i have said/thought for several years now that our Lge is vastly overrated ( mostly by the likes of Sky which has dripped down to fans). As for English players we only have to look at our failures at national level and the lack of interest in English players going to play in Europe for the really big teams to see how much we ( the English fans) overate the majority of them.
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I am not sure there is a lack of interest in English players from foreign clubs. I think there is cowardice from English players to go abroad, learn a new language or two, experience different cultures but above all they fear the different styles of football. Note the decision by Voldemort, when he could have gone to Spain or Italy but chose to stay in his own house and be near his friends. The bigger salaries paid in the Prem doesn't help.
However, I think we have some very ordinary players from overseas now, and this is reducing the opportunity for home based players.
I have come a full circle in this opinion, as someone who grew up in Africa, as a boy there were very few chances for someone to play in the UK. Now I think there are too many not up to standard in the UK.
But we do need to send more English/British players abroad, and they need to widen their horizons.
 
In the Telegraph, they said

"Managers blame the physical intensity and competitiveness of the Premier League for clubs struggling in Europe. But it does not wash. Certainly not at this stage in the Champions League and, conversely, that argument can be turned around. If the Premier League is so competitive then presumably the standard is so much higher and teams are sharper, stronger, better-prepared.

Instead the failings appear to be down tactics. English teams do not play smartly, do not vary their approach. They do not manage the format or afford their opponents enough respect. They are often too gung-ho, too emotional and direct in the way they approach matches."

and what Hemant said:

"The gulf between the Premier League and the other major leagues is not one of quality, but solely of wages. English football is like a bubble gum pop song. Extremely popular, capable of generating lots of cash and something you can’t get out of your head, but (at the moment) lacking class and substance.

Our clubs are being fleeced by agents who know they can get their slice of the TV revenues by playing on fears that if they don’t sign ‘the next Ronaldo’ one of their rivals will. When an English side does have a player of Ronaldo, Suarez or Bale’s class, they’re whisked off to Spain. Barcelona and Real Madrid are emblems of the pyramid of power.

The greatest players who come here are just passing through. In the meantime, the continued emphasis on overseas players of a lesser standard is to the detriment of the academies who continue to talk a good game while (mostly) failing. Despite multiple reviews of the system, there is no easy solution."

Greetings from Gent. We are 3-0 up again Mouscron.
 
I think all the hot air about quality of leagues is pointless as it depends on how somebody defines "quality" I prefer to watch british football (yes even scots games) probably as I played at a time when there was less "system football" and games were very combative. The european games I see are full of players with good technique but lack the pace we get in our leagues and unless one of the top teams are playing can be a hard watch, the same could be said of some games over here but I personally feel that's because we have too many average european players in all teams. TV has changed the expectations of most football fans and only see winners (GREAT) and losers (sub humans) and see the result as everything. I want to see Spurs win every game but I want to see them play good football with a mixture of skill and effort, if I see that then I'm satisfied. I never followed a team to see them win trophies, but it's nice if they do, as the performance of the team does not reflect on how I see myself, winning the league would not make me any wiser, better looking or wealthier, something many Leicester fans are having to come to terms with. At the end of the day it's just a game and should be enjoyed as such.
 
Point is the sheer intensity of the PL means our teams have less in the tank mentally for European games. For Gent on Wednesday night it was like it was their cup final, your fans were brilliant, but for us it was, well to be quite blunt, 'only' the Europa.

The intensity of the PL is ultimately down to the huge amounts of money underpinning it. I think it's fair to say we have a problem taking that same level of resolve and commitment into European games.

Finally it's worth remembering our top teams are dominated by top players from the continent- the English are but a very small minority - so if we are failing in Europe then surely our European players must have something to do with it too. No?
 
Hemant said:
I am not sure there is a lack of interest in English players from foreign clubs. I think there is cowardice from English players to go abroad, learn a new language or two, experience different cultures but above all they fear the different styles of football. .
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I do agree with some of that especially the bit about English players not having the bottle to be a success abroad, i remember the Rush quote about brick food and they speak another language :rolleyes:.

But the truth is in most cases British players are vastly overated here and not good enough.
 
parklane1 said:
I do agree with some of that especially the bit about English players not having the bottle to be a success abroad, i remember the Rush quote about brick food and they speak another language :rolleyes:.

But the truth is in most cases British players are vastly overated here and not good enough.
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But that is exactly my point, in order for English players to improve, more need to go abroad, ideally while they are still learning. Of course, bearing in mind family and educational requirements. They should practice different styles and improve their tactical and technical skills. Physical aspects are now pretty uniform as coaches are aware of all training regimes.
The more we have playing abroad, ideally in the bigger leagues, the better. However, other leagues should not be sneered at. I believe Dier is a better technical player for his upbringing in the Portugese league, technically, he is a very good player comfortable on the ball and able to use left, right foot, pass efficiently and can take a free kick. I know he has made a couple of mistakes recently but I admire his bravery to receive the ball in central areas, under pressure and try to play. If he had been brought up in the English system I am not sure he would have this in his locker.
We used to loan young players to Scandinavian leagues to develop but this seems to be unfashionable now.
 
Hemant said:
But that is exactly my point, in order for English players to improve, more need to go abroad, ideally while they are still learning. Of course, bearing in mind family and educational requirements. They should practice different styles and improve their tactical and technical skills. Physical aspects are now pretty uniform as coaches are aware of all training regimes.
The more we have playing abroad, ideally in the bigger leagues, the better. However, other leagues should not be sneered at. I believe Dier is a better technical player for his upbringing in the Portugese league, technically, he is a very good player comfortable on the ball and able to use left, right foot, pass efficiently and can take a free kick. I know he has made a couple of mistakes recently but I admire his bravery to receive the ball in central areas, under pressure and try to play. If he had been brought up in the English system I am not sure he would have this in locker.
We used to loan young players to Scandinavian leagues to develop but this seems to be unfashionable now.
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Having spent quite a bit of time in academys abroad ( working) i agree that technically they are a way in front of our systems here ( having said that we have improved over the last decade). However my main point was that British players in the main do not have the attitude to adjust to playing abroad ( or they have been that way in the past but that is also changing to a certain extent).

We have a overhyped Lge ( thanks mainly to Sky) and a lot of overhyped English players ( see the national team which is full of them). As for sneering at other leagues i do not, i have said before that our Lge is overated and behind several other Lgs ( imo) in the way we play the game.
 
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