***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v SCBC***

[Bedfordspurs]

Fair enough. Probably says more about how bad Dier and Sanchez are that Toby is still more reliable. I accept he’s slower than 18 months ago but don’t remember too many times he gets beaten by balls over the top with such regularity as the two CB’s today have done over their careers, that’s fairly basic stuff I’d expect Sunday league players to deal with whereas Toby’s failings are more physical i.e. his body letting him down rather than poor play. Still easily a better passer and footballer than Dier and Sanchez.

Toby always gets caught with balls over the top
The guy can’t run or head
Everything else he is still good at
Their all not good enough IMO
And yeah he is the best passer but again the bar is now low on that one
We need a real stopper to come in ASAP and just enjoy defending. What I like about Tanganga is he defends by going to the ball ands it’s a rare thing now

 

[Bullet]

Before you criticise our players too much:

In the first half, Spurs got in 2 or 3 times behind Soton's ludicrously high line, and scored. Offside.
Then in the second half it happened time and time again.

So it seems Soton were pressing SUUUUPER high and hence were dominating our midfield and forcing us into mistakes and hoofs, but (a) they couldn't keep it up and (b) we were just waiting to pick them off.

 

[DubaiSpur]

That's the one.

I think that he likes players who are drawn to the ball in front of someone who tends to stand off. I suspect that at some point this season, we'll see Hojbjerg switch positions when he isn't paired with Winks.

The issue with the Winks/Hojberg pairing as an analogue to the deep playmaker/high disruptor pairings he's used is that...well, quality-wise, they're just not on the same level, from the evidence of the last few games. Winks does an okay job sitting in front of the back four, but he can't actually screen them anywhere near as well as Cambiasso or Alonso used to do for Mourinho, and he can't distribute it anywhere near as well as those guys either.

Hojberg, on the other hand, can do an okay job pressing high, but does he actually win all the tackles he flies into? Does he know what to do with the ball when he wins it? Does he have the work-rate and awareness to drop into the midfield line alongside the distributor when needed? Jury's out.

The two players that would be ideal for the role are Lo Celso and Ndombele, classic two-way midfielders in every sense of the term. However, frustratingly, each has a key flaw that prevents them being the 'ideal' Mourinho deep midfielder, although presumably he will make both work.

Lo Celso can be an excellent disruptor, but he's a bit too small physically to really win out the way Khedira, Motta, Essien or Ballack used to do. Ndombele can be an excellent deep distributor/one stop shop to break the press, but his languidity and general lack of fitness make relying on him to shield the backline incredibly risky.

I think we're stilling missing that world-class player who can sit deep and be a Makelele, freeing Lo Celso and Ndombele up to work in more of a Mourinho 4-3-3 (as at Chelsea) in the Essien and Lampard roles. I listed Allan and Partey in the other post - Allan is now at Everton, Partey will shortly be at Arsenal. We need someone similar - Denis Zakaria, Igor Zubeldia, Mikel Merino, Thomas Delaney. Some of those are more disruptors than distributors, others are the exact opposite, but they can all do both to a 'Mourinho' standard more than what we've got - imo.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Toby always gets caught with balls over the top
The guy can’t run or head
Everything else he is still good at
Their all not good enough IMO
And yeah he is the best passer but again the bar is now low on that one
We need a real stopper to come in ASAP and just enjoy defending. What I like about Tanganga is he defends by going to the ball ands it’s a rare thing now

Not as often as the other two.

 

[Baleforce]

Before you criticise our players too much:

In the first half, Spurs got in 2 or 3 times behind Soton's ludicrously high line, and scored. Offside.
Then in the second half it happened time and time again.

So it seems Soton were pressing SUUUUPER high and hence were dominating our midfield and forcing us into mistakes and hoofs, but (a) they couldn't keep it up and (b) we were just waiting to pick them off.

there is something in that, but if they caught us offside, the line wasn't ludicrously high, for those plays it was just right

 

[milo]

The issue with the Winks/Hojberg pairing as an analogue to the deep playmaker/high disruptor pairings he's used is that...well, quality-wise, they're just not on the same level, from the evidence of the last few games. Winks does an okay job sitting in front of the back four, but he can't actually screen them anywhere near as well as Cambiasso or Alonso used to do for Mourinho, and he can't distribute it anywhere near as well as those guys either.

Hojberg, on the other hand, can do an okay job pressing high, but does he actually win all the tackles he flies into? Does he know what to do with the ball when he wins it? Does he have the work-rate and awareness to drop into the midfield line alongside the distributor when needed? Jury's out.

The two players that would be ideal for the role are Lo Celso and Ndombele, classic two-way midfielders in every sense of the term. However, frustratingly, each has a key flaw that prevents them being the 'ideal' Mourinho deep midfielder, although presumably he will make both work.

Lo Celso can be an excellent disruptor, but he's a bit too small physically to really win out the way Khedira, Motta, Essien or Ballack used to do. Ndombele can be an excellent deep distributor/one stop shop to break the press, but his languidity and general lack of fitness make relying on him to shield the backline incredibly risky.

I think we're stilling missing that world-class player who can sit deep and be a Makelele, freeing Lo Celso and Ndombele up to work in more of a Mourinho 4-3-3 (as at Chelsea) in the Essien and Lampard roles. I listed Allan and Partey in the other post - Allan is now at Everton, Partey will shortly be at Arsenal. We need someone similar - Denis Zakaria, Igor Zubeldia, Mikel Merino, Thomas Delaney. Some of those are more disruptors than distributors, others are the exact opposite, but they can all do both to a 'Mourinho' standard more than what we've got - imo.

I think that given the players we now have, he'll settle on Lo Celso, Hojbjerg and Ndombele in a three man midfield.

 

[billyiddo]

I think that given the players we now have, he'll settle on Lo Celso, Hojbjerg and Ndombele in a three man midfield.

How do you see that taking shape - Ndombele as the deepest of the 3 in place of Winks or??

 

[DubaiSpur]

I think that given the players we now have, he'll settle on Lo Celso, Hojbjerg and Ndombele in a three man midfield.

We'll see. Jury's out on Hojbjerg for me - from what I've seen, he isn't great, but maybe I'm being harsh on him because he's been in this league a while and should have less bedding-in time as a result.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

We'll see. Jury's out on Hojbjerg for me - from what I've seen, he isn't great, but maybe I'm being harsh on him because he's been in this league a while and should have less bedding-in time as a result.

He just needs to calm down
His running around is very unfocused and easy to play around
Second half he stuck with winks and neither was as exposed and it meant Lo Celso could do his stuff well

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Not as often as the other two.

Maybe but that’s normally be he is last man

 

[elltrev]

Hojbjerg did play a disciplined deep role in a three against Plovdiv, I thought.

Personally I think that’s what he’s best suited to - doesn’t seem to have the speed / stamina to get up and down quickly, and doesn’t have loads of quality in the final third if we do win the ball when he’s up there.

 

[milo]

How do you see that taking shape - Ndombele as the deepest of the 3 in place of Winks or??

He's played him there once before. I think that he'd probably start off with Hojbjerg deepest but maybe switch to Ndombele as he settles.

 

[Robspur12]

I don’t think it makes a difference who the DM is. Obviously a better DM would make some difference but we would still have Sanchez’s poor ability on the ball, Dier’s average ability on the ball, both of them are susceptible long balls over the top, neither of them deal with set pieces effectively. Who is the ball winner and who is the dominating one in the air? Who is the cultured CB out of the two?

I really hope Jose is managing Toby’s game time with the daunting schedule we have because honestly I’m baffled as to what Dier and Sanchez have done to be ahead of Toby in the pecking order, I accept its only two games though. We looked perfectly fine without Dier when he was suspended at the back end of last season. He comes back and we have zero clean sheets in 4 competitive games. And we had what 3/4 clean sheets without him?

Toby is even more susceptible to the ball over the top than Sanchez and is awful at set pieces, frequently failing to get off the ground properly. The main thing he adds is a cultured long ball from the back because defensively he has been suspect for some time. I think Sanchez is a good old fashioned defender, but he does lack quality on the ball. This was not a problem when we had Dembele picking the ball up from deep but is a great problem at the moment. For me a DM is the most pressing need.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Toby is even more susceptible to the ball over the top than Sanchez and is awful at set pieces, frequently failing to get off the ground properly. The main thing he adds is a cultured long ball from the back because defensively he has been suspect for some time. I think Sanchez is a good old fashioned defender, but he does lack quality on the ball. This was not a problem when we had Dembele picking the ball up from deep but is a great problem at the moment. For me a DM is the most pressing need.

I think teams paid us more respect when Sanchez first replaced Toby (mainly due to Toby’s contract situation). And also Sanchez was more of an unknown entity. Teams have figured out now that he’s poor on the ball so they pressure him and the other CB’s. Granted, better protection would help but we need better at CB if we want to get back to challenging for the top honours; league and CL. I think top 4 is as good as it gets with the current CB pairing.

 

[MKSpur]

I think teams paid us more respect when Sanchez first replaced Toby (mainly due to Toby’s contract situation). And also Sanchez was more of an unknown entity. Teams have figured out now that he’s poor on the ball so they pressure him and the other CB’s. Granted, better protection would help but we need better at CB if we want to get back to challenging for the top honours; league and CL. I think top 4 is as good as it gets with the current CB pairing.

Ironically Jose figured out he was brick on the ball while he was still at Ajax.

 

[SteveAWOL]

The issue with the Winks/Hojberg pairing as an analogue to the deep playmaker/high disruptor pairings he's used is that...well, quality-wise, they're just not on the same level, from the evidence of the last few games. Winks does an okay job sitting in front of the back four, but he can't actually screen them anywhere near as well as Cambiasso or Alonso used to do for Mourinho, and he can't distribute it anywhere near as well as those guys either.

Hojberg, on the other hand, can do an okay job pressing high, but does he actually win all the tackles he flies into? Does he know what to do with the ball when he wins it? Does he have the work-rate and awareness to drop into the midfield line alongside the distributor when needed? Jury's out.

The two players that would be ideal for the role are Lo Celso and Ndombele, classic two-way midfielders in every sense of the term. However, frustratingly, each has a key flaw that prevents them being the 'ideal' Mourinho deep midfielder, although presumably he will make both work.

Lo Celso can be an excellent disruptor, but he's a bit too small physically to really win out the way Khedira, Motta, Essien or Ballack used to do. Ndombele can be an excellent deep distributor/one stop shop to break the press, but his languidity and general lack of fitness make relying on him to shield the backline incredibly risky.

I think we're stilling missing that world-class player who can sit deep and be a Makelele, freeing Lo Celso and Ndombele up to work in more of a Mourinho 4-3-3 (as at Chelsea) in the Essien and Lampard roles. I listed Allan and Partey in the other post - Allan is now at Everton, Partey will shortly be at Arsenal. We need someone similar - Denis Zakaria, Igor Zubeldia, Mikel Merino, Thomas Delaney. Some of those are more disruptors than distributors, others are the exact opposite, but they can all do both to a 'Mourinho' standard more than what we've got - imo.

Good shout on Allan, if only you were part of our scouting team as he appears to have taken to PL like a duck to water but maybe Hojbjerg will prove a better investment in the long term.

Fingers crossed we can steal Partey from under Goons’ noses, like what they did with Petit all those years ago!

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Good shout on Allan, if only you were part of our scouting team as he appears to have taken to PL like a duck to water but maybe Hojbjerg will prove a better investment in the long term.

Fingers crossed we can steal Partey from under Goons’ noses, like what they did with Petit all those years ago!

I can’t see arsenal getting the money together for Partey and it’s an odd step down for him too
He would howeve make a big difference to their team as he is class
Zakaria is one that’s brilliant at that role

 

[Bishop]

I don’t think it makes a difference who the DM is. Obviously a better DM would make some difference but we would still have Sanchez’s poor ability on the ball, Dier’s average ability on the ball, both of them are susceptible long balls over the top, neither of them deal with set pieces effectively. Who is the ball winner and who is the dominating one in the air? Who is the cultured CB out of the two?

I really hope Jose is managing Toby’s game time with the daunting schedule we have because honestly I’m baffled as to what Dier and Sanchez have done to be ahead of Toby in the pecking order, I accept its only two games though. We looked perfectly fine without Dier when he was suspended at the back end of last season. He comes back and we have zero clean sheets in 4 competitive games. And we had what 3/4 clean sheets without him?

Sanchez was definitely overall our best CB last season which admittedly isn't saying a lot but he was by far the most consistent and had the best performances. I am a huge fan of Toby but he does seem quite diminished physically and unable to get his body into the position he would previously it's a big worry that we can't really say we have one CB of top quality or too form. [emoji848]

 

[glorygloryeze]

Great result. Great finishing by Son (and he even could have scored more). Great GREAT vision and passing from Kane.

The defence is still a big worry. In the context of the games we have coming thick and fast in RIDICULOUS fashion i guess we'll have to simply suck-it-up for now as long as we're outscoring the opposition.

Surprising, as i'd thought this was perfect park-the-bus-and-nick-goal time for Jose to conserve energy etc.

Imagine if Moura could also get his passing and shooting boots on

Worrying that the central midfield area still seems so porous imo.

Anyway, 3 points and finally with a league goal (and then some!).

COYS

 

[Pirate55]

Sanchez was definitely overall a bacon sandwich last season which admittedly isn't saying a lot but he was by far the most consistent and had the best performances. I am a huge fan of Toby but he does seem quite diminished physically and unable to get his body into the position he would previously it's a big worry that we can't really say we have one CB of top quality or too form. [emoji848]

Don’t know what Poch did to Sanchez. His first season he looked top notch. But he has never recaptured that early form.