OMT Tottenham Hotspur v RSB

[Bedfordspurs]

Me get over it? Classic Steff! The guy who can't get over anything and chases others around the board just to make sure they all know...

Not sure what you saw last night, but I saw the manager doing the very thing I've been asking of him. If one of us was vindicated last night, it wasn't you.




And if you read my initial post you'd note the point on the movement ahead of him.

Winks passing is always limited when the team are standing around like cones.

When players were mobile, making runs, showing for the ball etc - I suspect his passing would be much more impressive. Not that it's anything as bad as you like to make out anyway.

And no matter how fast Sissoko is, he can't out run a pass



One of the two deeper in midfield. Question is whether he will need a Dier with him, or whether he can play with a Winks.

Obviously he was in the 2 yesterday, but given how RSB were he barely played in our half!

Agree with all of this
Would love to see winks play with Ndombele for a game where the rest of the team turn up too
Nothing against sissoko but winks would offer us much more IMO

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Was working so only caught clips

Where has that tempo been all season?

Hopefully not a blip and this continues as teams can’t cope with us when start games like this.

Dombele looked like he changed the CM.

Dombele was excellent, and it was clear in his cameo Lo Celso is a bit special too.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Was actually an enjoyable experience in the stadium tonight
Lots of songs and support the whole way through

Is this because the ST holders stayed away?

 

[Lemonade Money]

Agree with all of this
Would love to see winks play with Ndombele for a game where the rest of the team turn up too
Nothing against sissoko but winks would offer us much more IMO

But doesn't.

 

[markysimmo]

Is this because the ST holders stayed away?

Most of my mates did and the lads who sat round me had a good sing song with me haha

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Traffic was bad at Blackwall Tunnel last night, hooray I found something to moan about.

 

[Finney Is Back]

And if you read my initial post you'd note the point on the movement ahead of him.

Winks passing is always limited when the team are standing around like cones.

When players were mobile, making runs, showing for the ball etc - I suspect his passing would be much more impressive. Not that it's anything as bad as you like to make out anyway.

And no matter how fast Sissoko is, he can't out run a pass

Ive bolded the important part.

It’s funny how you always make excuses for certain players or situations to suit your narrative. The movement appears limited because after Winks’ usual pattern of pointless side to side passing with Aurier/Toby/Sanchez/Vertonghen/Rose the opposition have got 10 or 11 back in their own half and there is far less space for our players to find.

IMO Winks is a much better player than Sissoko technically, he has better control, better pass execution and a far better shot. However, despite that, he is a far less effective player for us at the moment. He is weak defensively and slows our tempo down to a snails pace with pirouettes and side to side passes. Not sure if that is a lack of confidence or something else, but it is very evident.

You are right that Sissoko can’t outrun a pass.... However he can run 10 yards forwards and open up space in FAR less time than it takes Winks to 4 or 5 exchange passes with our defenders.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Dombele was excellent, and it was clear in his cameo Lo Celso is a bit special too.

From my seat in the South stand it looked as though Lo Celso mainly gave the ball away after he came on? (although he was trying ambitious, chance creation passes to be fair to him).

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

Ive bolded the important part.

It’s funny how you always make excuses for certain players or situations to suit your narrative. The movement appears limited because after Winks’ usual pattern of pointless side to side passing with Aurier/Toby/Sanchez/Vertonghen/Rose the opposition have got 10 or 11 back in their own half and there is far less space for our players to find.

IMO Winks is a much better player than Sissoko technically, he has better control, better pass execution and a far better shot. However, despite that, he is a far less effective player for us at the moment. He is weak defensively and slows our tempo down to a snails pace with pirouettes and side to side passes. Not sure if that is a lack of confidence or something else, but it is very evident.

You are right that Sissoko can’t outrun a pass.... However he can run 10 yards forwards and open up space in FAR less time than it takes Winks to 4 or 5 exchange passes with our defenders.

Nice little dig about narrative, sets your post up well.

What narrative exactly?

IMO Winks is a quality player and is unfairly villified on here.

He passed forward, well and early, when he can.
Just as he regularly turns and bursts into space.
Just as he actually does a fair bit of good defensive work despite it not being his natural game.

Never gets appreciated though, with people having decided before he's kicked a ball what they want to see.

Had Winks played last night, with players moving like that, a higher tempo, everyone willing to play - imo he would have been a revelation for you considering how down on him you are

 

[Bedfordspurs]

But doesn't.

And you know that how?

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

From my seat in the South stand it looked as though Lo Celso mainly gave the ball away after he came on? (although he was trying ambitious, chance creation passes to be fair to him).

Wasn't brilliant, but it was obvious he was positive, great technique, looking to turn and go past players

Sort of thing where it's obvious he has quality, and leaves you excited to see what he becomes when he is settled

 

[Bedfordspurs]

From my seat in the South stand it looked as though Lo Celso mainly gave the ball away after he came on? (although he was trying ambitious, chance creation passes to be fair to him).

He did
I don’t think he completed a pass but he did try clever stuff as you say

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Ive bolded the important part.

It’s funny how you always make excuses for certain players or situations to suit your narrative. The movement appears limited because after Winks’ usual pattern of pointless side to side passing with Aurier/Toby/Sanchez/Vertonghen/Rose the opposition have got 10 or 11 back in their own half and there is far less space for our players to find.

IMO Winks is a much better player than Sissoko technically, he has better control, better pass execution and a far better shot. However, despite that, he is a far less effective player for us at the moment. He is weak defensively and slows our tempo down to a snails pace with pirouettes and side to side passes. Not sure if that is a lack of confidence or something else, but it is very evident.

You are right that Sissoko can’t outrun a pass.... However he can run 10 yards forwards and open up space in FAR less time than it takes Winks to 4 or 5 exchange passes with our defenders.

What sissoko excels at is his running and catching players. He covers for others errors a lot. For example yesterday son and NDombele were both guilty of letting the midfield runners go and sissoko was there to cover for that. Against a better side his job there would be so much harder

 

[mudshark]

problem with clips is they don’t show you how bad they were

comfortably the worst team we have played for some time

I have to agree. I'm happy with what I saw but I'm not getting carried away. We weren't really pressed in our own half, which is when we tend to fold through losing possession in dangerous areas. We were hardly pressed at all, in fact. I'd say my mood is one of guarded optimism, but it's a long old extrapolation from last night's performance up to Anfield.

 

[Lemonade Money]

And you know that how?

From watching him play. Sissoko offers more at the moment IMO. Everyone keeps talking about a hypothetical scenario we're yet to see. In the meantime, Sissoko is getting stuff done.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I have to agree. I'm happy with what I saw but I'm not getting carried away. We weren't really pressed in our own half, which is when we tend to fold through losing possession in dangerous areas. We were hardly pressed at all, in fact. I'd say my mood is one of guarded optimism, but it's a long old extrapolation from last night's performance up to Anfield.

we can only beat the team on front so us but they looked weaker than Colchester IMO and certainly less organised

they will be different away form home (really don’t understand that phenomenon) but I fancy us to get the job done there

pool away is a whole different ball game. Strangely it’s the one I’ve been saying to my mates that we would turn the corner in but I can work out why I think that ....

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

I have to agree. I'm happy with what I saw but I'm not getting carried away. We weren't really pressed in our own half, which is when we tend to fold through losing possession in dangerous areas. We were hardly pressed at all, in fact. I'd say my mood is one of guarded optimism, but it's a long old extrapolation from last night's performance up to Anfield.

Described it as a "signal" myself.

Hopefully a positive one, obviously, but too soon for it to be anything more.

We were guilty of over playing at the back a fair bit, and were looking shaky before getting the third, and as you say - that's against a team that barely threatened.

So a good start, hopefully one to look back on later as that game that was a turning point, but we'll have to wait and see if that's really the case

 

[Bedfordspurs]

From watching him play. Sissoko offers more at the moment IMO. Everyone keeps talking about a hypothetical scenario we're yet to see. In the meantime, Sissoko is getting stuff done.

Sissoko is cleaning up I agree
But he isn’t offering an all round game
We don’t know what we don’t know with winks and NDombele as a pairing

what I will say is that sissoko and NDombele are best mates currently, speak the same language and it looked balanced vs the worse side we will play this season.

against better sides we will need players who can pass as well as run and tackle. Sissoko falls down on that compared to winks but seems to be the main man for covering ground in the team

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

From watching him play. Sissoko offers more at the moment IMO. Everyone keeps talking about a hypothetical scenario we're yet to see. In the meantime, Sissoko is getting stuff done.

Last night was a distinct change in Sissokos game, proper Dier-like DM position.

It's what most excited me, shows Poch has really been working on the shape and tactics etc.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Nice little dig about narrative, sets your post up well.

What narrative exactly?

IMO Winks is a quality player and is unfairly villified on here.

He passed forward, well and early, when he can.
Just as he regularly turns and bursts into space.
Just as he actually does a fair bit of good defensive work despite it not being his natural game.

Never gets appreciated though, with people having decided before he's kicked a ball what they want to see.

Had Winks played last night, with players moving like that, a higher tempo, everyone willing to play - imo he would have been a revelation for you considering how down on him you are

Or alternatively...... had Winks played last night and done his standard side to side passing with our defence, we would’ve looked as pedestrian as we did against Watford. Cause and effect.