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OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Ns Mura

FolkestoneSpur said:
We have had a lot of practice!
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Yeah we have..but it goes back along way with how I've seen it and how useless some off our fans really are.Maybe not getting behind the team might be part of our downfall at home.
We still have lots to be worked out how we play
With the Team obviously GHod we all know.. will it ever be sorted out. Also ..Obviously again the mental attitude of some of the players is pathetic when you think how much they are being paid. Some of our passing was worse than it would be in some lower leagues. Some of our players must be fairly good to have got to a professional level??mmmmmm
But when it comes to basic skills they are lacking seriously. Hardly any of our defenders have the skill or confidence to move forward and take some of the pressure of the front runners and if all they can do is just pass sideways until one of our forwards is able to run into space...we'll that's not good enough..anyway rant over till next game..
 
This has been coming for a long time, too many of our fans think he squad players can come in en masse and beat teams, they cant, the first XI can carry 1 or 2 but as a group they aren't good enough.

I expect people will still suggest weak teams for cup games thinking they can win. If that's the policy that's fine with me only if the first team win their games. Rotation should only be used when players are unfit or tired not as an automatic action.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
I haven't watched the game but I agree that it's a good thing he found out some truths on his own.

With hindsight, I think the turning point of Mourinho's tenure was Levy (allegedly) vetoing Ali's transfer. If it's true, it was a massive mistake as it showed players had more value to the club than the manager. That, in turn, allows such half-arsed performances as we've been witnessing for over year to carry on.

I remember a lot of people saying we had a Top 4 squad when a few of us claimed we were over-performing under Mourinho. Yeah, maybe on paper - and that's what brought people like Mourinho and Conte to this club in the first place - but on the pitch... not so much. Some of our players are over-rated because of the CL final, others just don't have the right attitude. Whatever it is, we can't afford to carry on like that.

We (i.e. the board) have to accept that we will take a massive loss on some of these tossers compared to their past valuations but we can't have that many passengers in our squad. They're unhappy because they're not playing regularly and yet, when they're given a chance, it's one humiliating result after the other.

Again, I didn't watch the game but, in terms of results, it's on a par with the Zagreb debacle, if not worse. Mura really are that bad. I was worried that a few of the usual suspects would up their game for a few weeks to get into Conte's good graces and then let him down but, thankfully, they're so far gone that they can't even do that.

The next window will be make or break, though. I'm a bit worried when I hear Conte say 'I am happy to stay here'. Three weeks on and he already has to mention that he doesn't want to leave... not good.
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Zagreb was awful but our CL collapse against Red Bull in early 2020 remains the worst for me. He said we were good enough when he came in. He lied. That defeat was pre-pandemic. Conte is not a liar. I am hopeful this cycle now ends one way or another...
 
Junior19 said:
TLDR; We need both to improve our top level, and our squad depth.
(TLICBATRATG = too long, I can't be arsed to read all that garbage)

A few things about yesterdays disaster.

It is quite understandable to be upset and angry about the result, the performance, and everything.

There has been screams of agony on this board every time Dier and Davies' names have been mentioned in the first team, with calls for D.S and J.R to play instead. Can this now please stop, untill Conte decides they are ready, or sold?
There is no other viable alternative untill january, so zip it! Davinson Sanchez had a really poor game yesterday, Rodon was slightly better, but together they were a disaster waiting to happen. Tanganga had most of his game ruined by having to shift to the left back after the red card.

As for the midfield, I think we can clearly state that a Skipp/Ndombele-combination didn't work as well as expected in the first half. Across the midfield 4 and the back 3 the passing were slow, turgid and it looked as if they were playing with one of those half-inflated plastic balls we used at the playground when we were kids. No matter how hard you kicked it, it would never gain any speed at all. But when they suddenly tried to play penetrating balls through Muras midfield, the ball turned into the most bouncy, untrappable object of all times, since none of the front three ever managed to trap it properly.

Gil is not ready. If he played like that against a Premier League-side he would have been eaten alive, chewed up, spit out and eaten again.
Dele Alli has lost all explosivity. Look back at one of his first run against the Mura right back. The Mura-player hardly breaks a sweat beating Dele to the ball. Dele appears to run full pelt, but looks like he is stationary. I fear for Dele, and I struggle to see how he can regain any form of career from this. I would hate it if he were to become the next Danny Rose, sitting in the player restaurant asking "heard anything from Milan? Anyting from PSG?", while the only teams willing to play him would be Charlton, Hull or Vålerenga, but neither would be able to pay his current wages.

Kane looks wooden, which he always do in august. His touch is off, his decisions are off, he turns into players instead of away from them, he doesn't shoot where he used to, and he does not seem to trust anyone anymore. Whats worse, Sonny doesn't appear to trust Harry anymore either.
This would not worry me, if we still were in august or september, but we're now approaching december, and it worries me. Please lock Sonny & Kane together into a room, and don't let them out untill they've worked it out and regained their relationship and trust. If neccessary, give them a bottle of whiskey and a karaoke-machine, whatever it takes! Just do it!

Ryan Sessegnion was diabolical yesterday. To his excuse, the ref was rather difficult to read, but once you get that early first yellow card, you can't do what he did! He has got to learn. But we were in trouble before he got sent off.
And Gollini didn't impress or project any confidence. I'll leave it at that.

The main problem for me first 32 minutes was the lack of pace and determination on the ball, and the poor choices we made on the ball. If you look at the "this is how conte plays"-videos on youtube, the "hit the reset-switch"-video, etc, and compare it with how we played before the red card, you'll see that we were miles off. Instead of resetting, going back, changing angle of attack, etc, Ndombele or Skipp, or someone else, tried to play a direct ball through the middle, or a poor cross was attempted from Doherty or whoever, even though it was clear that we were not in the right positions. Should have gone back, reset, pulled Mura out, created new imbalance, and tried again. Instead, we lost the ball, or created a poor chance.

Main problem from 32 minutes to half time, is of course the red card. That chucks every bit of gameplan out the window.

So is it all doom and gloom?

We could very well throw out the baby with the bathwater if we stopped there.
Because things improved during the game, most notably after the four first substitutions. Dier and Davies rebalanced the back three, and moved Tanganga back to the right side. Moura gave us a better focal-point for the passes and Sonny gave us much better movement. I have no doubt at all that if we had started with those four, and kept 11vs11, we would and should have hammered this team.

What comes out of this?
Our depth in the squad is not very good. Nor is it tailored to the demands of Contes style. We knew this already, but is was made blatantly obvious yesterday. We can coach our first 11 into do a passable/decent version of it, as the second half vs. Leeds shows. But reinforcements are needed. Once again, we knew that! What might come as a surprise to some, is that it may not be those we think who get shipped out and replaced.. Let's wait and see.

Meanwhile, we have the players we have, and we go again away to Burnley on sunday.
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What a post!!!! Well said that person!
 
K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
This has been coming for a long time, too many of our fans think he squad players can come in en masse and beat teams, they cant, the first XI can carry 1 or 2 but as a group they aren't good enough.

I expect people will still suggest weak teams for cup games thinking they can win. If that's the policy that's fine with me only if the first team win their games. Rotation should only be used when players are unfit or tired not as an automatic action.
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Not unrealistic to expect we can beat Mura with that team though.
If Sess didn't go off early we would have won it.

Anyone consider more nefarious forces at work like players deliberately playing under par to force their transfer (aside from Kane) or has a supervillain holding a pet hostage? Dele seems like he forgot how to play football.


Sent from my SM-T865 using Fapatalk
 
thfcsteff said:
Zagreb was awful but our CL collapse against Red Bull in early 2020 remains the worst for me. He said we were good enough when he came in. He lied. That defeat was pre-pandemic. Conte is not a liar. I am hopeful this cycle now ends one way or another...
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Or maybe he made a mistake - albeit a big one. Hopefully, Conte will close that debate and get rid of the players who've been there for far too long. I realise I keep saying the same thing over and over again, but there's really a 90s vibe at the club (from my - very distant - point of view). Back then, our squad was full of players who looked good on paper, who never performed to the level expected of them and who also looked like they owned the club.

The best thing that could happen to us now is to finally realise that no player is bigger than the club.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Or maybe he made a mistake - albeit a big one. Hopefully, Conte will close that debate and get rid of the players who've been there for far too long. I realise I keep saying the same thing over and over again, but there's really a 90s vibe at the club (from my - very distant - point of view). Back then, our squad was full of players who looked good on paper, who never performed to the level expected of them and who also looked like they owned the club.

The best thing that could happen to us now is to finally realise that no player is bigger than the club.
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It was a big mistake by jose, and tbh a lot of us had been saying that there was a problem in the squad.
The squad needs torn apart and started anew.
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Or maybe he made a mistake - albeit a big one. Hopefully, Conte will close that debate and get rid of the players who've been there for far too long. I realise I keep saying the same thing over and over again, but there's really a 90s vibe at the club (from my - very distant - point of view). Back then, our squad was full of players who looked good on paper, who never performed to the level expected of them and who also looked like they owned the club.

The best thing that could happen to us now is to finally realise that no player is bigger than the club.
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Check out our 90s pod special!!!
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Or maybe he made a mistake - albeit a big one. Hopefully, Conte will close that debate and get rid of the players who've been there for far too long. I realise I keep saying the same thing over and over again, but there's really a 90s vibe at the club (from my - very distant - point of view). Back then, our squad was full of players who looked good on paper, who never performed to the level expected of them and who also looked like they owned the club.

The best thing that could happen to us now is to finally realise that no player is bigger than the club.
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Jose comes in and says the squad isnt good enough = Jose being toxic straight away being reported in the media.
 
Legohamster said:
Jose comes in and says the squad isnt good enough = Jose being toxic straight away being reported in the media.
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Jose actually came in and said the squad was great and he'd have us challenging for the title the following season. He then said he was backed as well as he could have hoped to have been in the summer transfer market. The guy was full of brick and blamed everyone else when it went wrong and took no responsibility for his neglect on the training field and negative tactics on the football pitch which both directly contributed to our poor performances, compared to how Conte speaks wrt to the task at hand and what's required from everyone, including himself, to move forward together it's night and day.
 
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billyiddo said:
Jose actually came in and said the squad was great and he'd have us challenging for the title the following season. He then said he was backed as well as he could have hoped to have been in the summer transfer market. The guy was full of brick and blamed everyone else when it went wrong and took no responsibility for his neglect on the training field and negative tactic on the football pitch - compared to how Conte speaks wrt to the task at hand and what's required from everyone, including himself, to move forward together it's night and day.
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Jose said he was happy with the squad when he came in to the media, and why wouldn’t he? People on here were already frothing at the mouth with the thought of him taking over, you honestly going to tell me had he come out and said the squad wasn’t good enough that it would have been greeted with a response of delight on here?! And as for the players they would have not reacted well at all. You don’t know what conversations were being had with Levy in private in regards to how happy with the squad he was, which was far more important. The difference now with Conte saying it is that everybody knows he is going to be backed or he wouldn’t be here and these players have failed so many managers it is pretty obvious - When Jose had taken over it wasn’t so clear….
 
harr1984 said:
Jose said he was happy with the squad when he came in to the media, and why wouldn’t he? People on here were already frothing at the mouth with the thought of him taking over, you honestly going to tell me had he come out and said the squad wasn’t good enough that it would have been greeted with a response of delight on here?! And as for the players they would have not reacted well at all. You don’t know what conversations were being had with Levy in private in regards to how happy with the squad he was, which was far more important. The difference now with Conte saying it is that everybody knows he is going to be backed or he wouldn’t be here and these players have failed so many managers it is pretty obvious - When Jose had taken over it wasn’t so clear….
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I was responding to a post that said Jose came in and said the squad wasn't good enough - that didn't happen.
 
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