OMT ** Tottenham Hotspur v Monaco ** 22/10/25.

[thfcsteff]

I really think that people aren’t criticising a solid point away; from a coaching staff that are new in post. I think most are criticising a style that is really plain to see.

Our offence was a deep six, and a high 4, with a huge gap in the middle, and there was literally no plan to get the ball to the front 4 other than a hoof to Kudus or maybe Richy. And that might be fine if not for the fact we were saved by Vicario tonight, it wasn’t like we were actually solid or shut them out in any meaningful way.

We’ve had ‘turgid’ before, where it’s looked like possession for possession’s sake. And we’ve had Santini style bus parking. This isn’t that. And there’s definitely spells where it looks quite good. But it’s hard to get away from the fact that this is a feature of Frank’s decisions. I don’t think it’s a bug that is worked out with more time. He’s choosing that 6 deep 4 up shape. He’s choosing to play Bentancur and Palinha and having them make sideways passes. This can be changed with different selections and different instructions. But it’s definitely what he wants.

I think a couple of things about this; first is that in some ways, this is very much the league this season. Duels. Set pieces. Direct play. So he’s on trend. But I would say other good teams are exploiting set pieces while still having something of a possession game, which we are just not demonstrating whatsoever right now.

So that brings me to, maybe there is a method in this for Frank in that he is deliberately trying to create a solid identity to almost counteract what the players would have had as a self image last season of conceding more goals. I don’t believe it is ‘fix the foundations and eventually the intricate attacking play comes’, because he could implement more intricate play right now if he wanted to. But if he is establishing a culture of being solid and hard to beat, so that the players have that self image; and it’s then part of the Tottenham culture, I sort of get it. Some teams get taken over by new managers but retain the good and bad traits that are the consequences of the previous regime’s leadership. Slot at Liverpool is probably an example of retaining a lot of positive Klopp traits. And if Frank feels he needs to rid the squad of a self image that would consider conceding reasonable as long as we score many more, I can see why he’d want to change that mentality and have them motivated a different way.

I’d be curious to know when he thinks the right time is to make the shift to better attacking play. Because we aren’t Brentford and it shouldn’t take that long. And we’re sort of getting results. But we could have easily lost this game, and we’re dropping a lot of points at home.

So in summary, I don’t think it’s suddenly going to click into place, as if it just takes time, because it’s very obvious that what we’re seeing is deliberate. My question is when, if ever, is Frank going to choose to evolve the style?

Exactly!!!!!!!!

As ever you've articulated my thoughts more clearly (I mean, obviously they're YOUR thoughts, but you know what I mean!!!!)...the pressure will start to tell by Christmas, and then we'll see whether there will be evolution or further committment to this methodology.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Of course we have to give Frank time. But the issue is, this is his usual style - Had our players had Brentford kits on for our games this season no one would have batted an eyelid. Yes we have players missing. But you mentioned (and previously advocated) Ireola as manager. Had he got the players Frank has available right now, he would absolutely be playing a better style of football than we are seeing now, injuries or no injuries. As would Glasner.

There is some real big assumptions and blind faith around this whole theory that Frank is just being defensive for now to teach our team how defend. It is absolute dreamland stuff, this is his MO and one season of more swashbuckling football in the Championship doesn't change that. Yes styles can take a while to really see the benefits of, but you still see what that style is and what is trying to be achieved. We are so predictable currently it's shocking, hope for Kudus to do something/ a set piece or it's not happening. And considering Kudus has two or three men on him all the time because teams know how one dimensional we are, you would think there would be some plan to utilise the space we have elsewhere but we don't.

No one is Frank out, losing their heads or whatever other accusations get thrown around when you dare be critical. These are simply observations, it was great in the first few weeks when we was an unknown and now every man and his dog knows our very basic tactics. These are things Frank must work out and fairly soon, because as much as I personally will give him a fair bit of time I know our fan base in that stadium and the masses will not be so generous....

This is what worries me
Was that one great footballing season an anomaly
I hope not Because the football now is truly horrendous
It has nuno vibes all over it including the gaps between defence and attack

 

[Grays_1890]

The smell of entitlement is strong in here. Rinse and repeat.

Like most managers, he needs time, 2 seasons minimal unless he does something drastically wrong.

Some are rightly criticizing the style based on current, thats fine, some are clearly churning just negativity and or an agenda

 

[billyiddo]

Honestly. Our midfield is vastly over rated

We've got Sarr/Berg/Gray who are potential

Paul who is the most consistent we have

Bent is just inconsistent

I'd bin 2 of them plus Biss

We have Palinha, a DM then several not really attacking/creative, not really defensive options.

I was disappointed that we renewed Bentancurs contract.

 

[Grays_1890]

We have Palinha, a DM then several not really attacking not really defensive options.

I was disappointed that we renewed Bentancurs contract

I think Bergvall is a must in order to turn midfield into attack. Sarr would also be a key starter for me

 

[thfcsteff]

We have Palinha, a DM then several not really attacking/creative, not really defensive options.

I was disappointed that we renewed Bentancurs contract.

It was a strange move. We got Pahlinha who is a specialist and, IMO, a very important player. Bents is simply not the force he was pre-Cash injury, and at this point (as you suggest) seems stuck between a 6 and 8, not being especially great at either. With Gray, Bergvall, and Sarr in the mix too (again to your point not out and out defensive or creative), I think at least one has to go in the summer and I would hope that would be Bentancur by process of elimination.
I remain somewhat hopeful that it is to get some value from him in the summer. He'll be 29 in June so perhaps it is to ensure that we get something half-decent?

I am concerned that Frank seems very happy with Pahlinha and Bentacur together. We currently have no way of progressing the ball when Romero is out, and it is hurting us in terms of creativity. I feel a bit sorry for Xavi, who often takes up good positions and simply does not receive the ball either quickly enough or at all.

On Gray and Bergvall, I remain hugely hopeful that they will get much more playing time. I love Papa too, but we have to use him consistently. The truth is, when Maddison and Deki are fit, we will see TF's intent once and for all (if we haven't already!) with regards to how we create/look to create.

 

[Bishop]

I think Bergvall is a must in order to turn midfield into attack. Sarr would also be a key starter for me

I was debating this with someone else previously. I agree the midfield balance isn't right, Palhina paired with Bentancur is too stodgy a midfield with neither really being confident to turn and play forward. It's a lot of slow sideways stuff which just often means the opposition have reset and are ready. However I'm not sure that either Bergvall or Sarr are really the answer although they may have to do for now.

Bergvall isn't much of a passer so far. He's not really shown any range nor an inclination to control things. Where he has worked is when he bustles and breaks with the ball. That will get the team moving but it's needs to co-ordinated otherwise it's just leads to messy chaotic flow. Plus he's really loose with the ball and gets it taken off him in deep positions fairly regularly. It's a bit risk to play him as one of the two to be frank. Sarr 8 think is safer in the ball and has shown a wider range of passes so if we are to be holder with our midfield options Sarr is the player that I think makes more sense. He's also better defensively to go along with the wider passing range.

Ultimately it's a problem that I don't think we truly have an in-house solution for and it's something we've had issue with for quite some time now. We lacked the ball passing 8 under Ange just as much if not more. It's a shame because initially Bentancur was that player until he had those I juries. Now he's safety first and basically spins and attacks the space anymore, something that he did rather expertly previously.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

I really think that people aren’t criticising a solid point away; from a coaching staff that are new in post. I think most are criticising a style that is really plain to see.

Our offence was a deep six, and a high 4, with a huge gap in the middle, and there was literally no plan to get the ball to the front 4 other than a hoof to Kudus or maybe Richy. And that might be fine if not for the fact we were saved by Vicario tonight, it wasn’t like we were actually solid or shut them out in any meaningful way.

We’ve had ‘turgid’ before, where it’s looked like possession for possession’s sake. And we’ve had Santini style bus parking. This isn’t that. And there’s definitely spells where it looks quite good. But it’s hard to get away from the fact that this is a feature of Frank’s decisions. I don’t think it’s a bug that is worked out with more time. He’s choosing that 6 deep 4 up shape. He’s choosing to play Bentancur and Palinha and having them make sideways passes. This can be changed with different selections and different instructions. But it’s definitely what he wants.

I think a couple of things about this; first is that in some ways, this is very much the league this season. Duels. Set pieces. Direct play. So he’s on trend. But I would say other good teams are exploiting set pieces while still having something of a possession game, which we are just not demonstrating whatsoever right now.

So that brings me to, maybe there is a method in this for Frank in that he is deliberately trying to create a solid identity to almost counteract what the players would have had as a self image last season of conceding more goals. I don’t believe it is ‘fix the foundations and eventually the intricate attacking play comes’, because he could implement more intricate play right now if he wanted to. But if he is establishing a culture of being solid and hard to beat, so that the players have that self image; and it’s then part of the Tottenham culture, I sort of get it. Some teams get taken over by new managers but retain the good and bad traits that are the consequences of the previous regime’s leadership. Slot at Liverpool is probably an example of retaining a lot of positive Klopp traits. And if Frank feels he needs to rid the squad of a self image that would consider conceding reasonable as long as we score many more, I can see why he’d want to change that mentality and have them motivated a different way.

I’d be curious to know when he thinks the right time is to make the shift to better attacking play. Because we aren’t Brentford and it shouldn’t take that long. And we’re sort of getting results. But we could have easily lost this game, and we’re dropping a lot of points at home.

So in summary, I don’t think it’s suddenly going to click into place, as if it just takes time, because it’s very obvious that what we’re seeing is deliberate. My question is when, if ever, is Frank going to choose to evolve the style?

Good post

One way if looking at it, is rather than focus on 'the style' we all desire TF has initially focused on (as you say) the solidity. 1. To purge us of the 'always conceding' bug and 2. The safest route to accumulate some points.

Somewhat pushed in that direction by most of the front guys he had/has available all being new players at present.

If he had been more expansive/attacking, we might have 3-4-5 PTS in the league and that would carry a much bigger moan from fans than talking about style.

Usually (in days gone by) what we've accumulated so far with give you some 'breathing room' ....but such is life atm

 

[Legohamster]

We have Palinha, a DM then several not really attacking/creative, not really defensive options.

I was disappointed that we renewed Bentancurs contract.

My hope it was to still sell him this summer

 

[clownfoot]

Good post

One way if looking at it, is rather than focus on 'the style' we all desire TF has initially focused on (as you say) the solidity. 1. To purge us of the 'always conceding' bug and 2. The safest route to accumulate some points.

Somewhat pushed in that direction by most of the front guys he had/has available all being new players at present.

If he had been more expansive/attacking, we might have 3-4-5 PTS in the league and that would carry a much bigger moan from fans than talking about style.

Usually (in days gone by) what we've accumulated so far with give you some 'breathing room' ....but such is life atm

This is what Frank spoke about when Brentford came up to the Prem. Him and his team targeted the quickest way to avoid relegation, and it would seem there’s a similar plan here (albeit with a different metric rather than safety)

I’m happy to give him time and see how it pans out. Sadly with the players available in attack I think we’ve no other option than to see a lot of this season through like this. How long others are willing to give him before booing at home is another thing…

I do genuinely think Muani is the best option up front, want to see more of him soon

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

This is what Frank spoke about when Brentford came up to the Prem. Him and his team targeted the quickest way to avoid relegation, and it would seem there’s a similar plan here (albeit with a different metric rather than safety)

I’m happy to give him time and see how it pans out. Sadly with the players available in attack I think we’ve no other option than to see a lot of this season through like this. How long others are willing to give him before booing at home is another thing…

I do genuinely think Muani is the best option up front, want to see more of him soon

Definitely a couple of positives from last night. Odoberts confidence levels and Muani looks quick and physical enough to play centrally on his own. Good cameo from him

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Like most managers, he needs time, 2 seasons minimal unless he does something drastically wrong.

Some are rightly criticizing the style based on current, thats fine, some are clearly churning just negativity and or an agenda

Time is the one thing managers and players don't get, expectations are for instant improvements, the media smell blood as "journalist" seem to rely on social media for their copy and fill pages/broadcasts with xxxxxx is likely to get sack, then follow up once the deed is done bemoaning fans and owners not giving managers time. Most journalist I've know have little self awareness or regard for what they produce its all about filling the space.

 

[Grays_1890]

I was debating this with someone else previously. I agree the midfield balance isn't right, Palhina paired with Bentancur is too stodgy a midfield with neither really being confident to turn and play forward. It's a lot of slow sideways stuff which just often means the opposition have reset and are ready. However I'm not sure that either Bergvall or Sarr are really the answer although they may have to do for now.

Bergvall isn't much of a passer so far. He's not really shown any range nor an inclination to control things. Where he has worked is when he bustles and breaks with the ball. That will get the team moving but it's needs to co-ordinated otherwise it's just leads to messy chaotic flow. Plus he's really loose with the ball and gets it taken off him in deep positions fairly regularly. It's a bit risk to play him as one of the two to be frank. Sarr 8 think is safer in the ball and has shown a wider range of passes so if we are to be holder with our midfield options Sarr is the player that I think makes more sense. He's also better defensively to go along with the wider passing range.

Ultimately it's a problem that I don't think we truly have an in-house solution for and it's something we've had issue with for quite some time now. We lacked the ball passing 8 under Ange just as much if not more. It's a shame because initially Bentancur was that player until he had those I juries. Now he's safety first and basically spins and attacks the space anymore, something that he did rather expertly previously.

Bergvall is technically above anything we have thought. Is tenacious in the tackle and carries the ball so makes up yards.

The lad would be the 2nd CM on the sheet after Pauli

 

[SpurMeUp]

I really think that people aren’t criticising a solid point away; from a coaching staff that are new in post. I think most are criticising a style that is really plain to see.

Our offence was a deep six, and a high 4, with a huge gap in the middle, and there was literally no plan to get the ball to the front 4 other than a hoof to Kudus or maybe Richy. And that might be fine if not for the fact we were saved by Vicario tonight, it wasn’t like we were actually solid or shut them out in any meaningful way.

We’ve had ‘turgid’ before, where it’s looked like possession for possession’s sake. And we’ve had Santini style bus parking. This isn’t that. And there’s definitely spells where it looks quite good. But it’s hard to get away from the fact that this is a feature of Frank’s decisions. I don’t think it’s a bug that is worked out with more time. He’s choosing that 6 deep 4 up shape. He’s choosing to play Bentancur and Palinha and having them make sideways passes. This can be changed with different selections and different instructions. But it’s definitely what he wants.

I think a couple of things about this; first is that in some ways, this is very much the league this season. Duels. Set pieces. Direct play. So he’s on trend. But I would say other good teams are exploiting set pieces while still having something of a possession game, which we are just not demonstrating whatsoever right now.

So that brings me to, maybe there is a method in this for Frank in that he is deliberately trying to create a solid identity to almost counteract what the players would have had as a self image last season of conceding more goals. I don’t believe it is ‘fix the foundations and eventually the intricate attacking play comes’, because he could implement more intricate play right now if he wanted to. But if he is establishing a culture of being solid and hard to beat, so that the players have that self image; and it’s then part of the Tottenham culture, I sort of get it. Some teams get taken over by new managers but retain the good and bad traits that are the consequences of the previous regime’s leadership. Slot at Liverpool is probably an example of retaining a lot of positive Klopp traits. And if Frank feels he needs to rid the squad of a self image that would consider conceding reasonable as long as we score many more, I can see why he’d want to change that mentality and have them motivated a different way.

I’d be curious to know when he thinks the right time is to make the shift to better attacking play. Because we aren’t Brentford and it shouldn’t take that long. And we’re sort of getting results. But we could have easily lost this game, and we’re dropping a lot of points at home.

So in summary, I don’t think it’s suddenly going to click into place, as if it just takes time, because it’s very obvious that what we’re seeing is deliberate. My question is when, if ever, is Frank going to choose to evolve the style?

How about when we're not relying on young, inexperienced players throughout the team. We didn't play well away, got a point.

Confidence is low. But main thing is the chemistry is missing atm. Odobert came out and played well in the opening 20. But the support and patterns of play around him weren't there. Strangers still. Frank is setting us up to be direct for Odobert to cross the ball into the box and for us to score. But at times, he needs more support - someone to pass and run and get the ball back again for example. Numerous times we lack a bit of guile in the midfield build up. We are trying to be direct, which is great, but there needs to be a plan B, where players get a bit closer and allow some more build up. We can still be direct, just when the direct cross isn't on, we should keep the forward momentum with closer support. That chemistry to play off other players in the build up is lacking a bit.

This isn't suprising as its a young young team. We lack someone like Maddison to knit and support, play 1-2s. Bergval tried to put his foot on the ball but was dispossessed. So we are work in progress, who'd have thought it!

 

[NLS]

For the first time in a couple of years I was at the game last night and everyone has said it was very disappointing...

Monaco just rippled us apart at times and played some lovely football...

As we all know , the biggest problem is on the left.... Our most dangerous player going forward on the left this season has been Udogie and until we get someone else I would play him in front of Spence.

COYS

 

[NLS]

As in , Spence as left back and Udogie in Odoberts position.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Lot of unhappiness last night, and dont get me wrong it was woeful i know, but we had 9 players out injured and one not eligible, so 10 in total. We have called this out for years, many of us, about Levy's squad and this is the impact of relying on cheap youngsters that are unproven. We are miles off the top teams. That's not on Frank, that's years before him.

I hope people stop panicking, we need our best players back, and yes we need to be better but that comes with a fully fit squad.

Hopefully TF starts this weekend with RKM up top instead of Richy.

 

[harr1984]

Bergvall is technically above anything we have thought. Is tenacious in the tackle and carries the ball so makes up yards.

The lad would be the 2nd CM on the sheet after Pauli

Bergvall is a big talent, but he really needs to learn when to take risks and when not to. Many times he has lost the ball in areas you can't afford to lose it - not just the couple of times it happened last night, but ever since he has been here and it has at times been costly. I can understand why he is not fully trusted yet, even though I agree he has some great qualities he doesn't yet have the awareness/maturity which of course is understandable at his young age.

The more curious one for me is Sarr, he should be playing and there is no logical reason why he is out of the team all of a sudden. We haven't looked good going forward all season but his running/covering of the pitch and popping up with goals was certainly helping. Obviously we don't have the full picture but is odd he hasn't been used more considering he was one of the plus points at start of the season.....

 

[Mosquito_Coasting]

I was debating this with someone else previously. I agree the midfield balance isn't right, Palhina paired with Bentancur is too stodgy a midfield with neither really being confident to turn and play forward. It's a lot of slow sideways stuff which just often means the opposition have reset and are ready. However I'm not sure that either Bergvall or Sarr are really the answer although they may have to do for now.

Bergvall isn't much of a passer so far. He's not really shown any range nor an inclination to control things. Where he has worked is when he bustles and breaks with the ball. That will get the team moving but it's needs to co-ordinated otherwise it's just leads to messy chaotic flow. Plus he's really loose with the ball and gets it taken off him in deep positions fairly regularly. It's a bit risk to play him as one of the two to be frank. Sarr 8 think is safer in the ball and has shown a wider range of passes so if we are to be holder with our midfield options Sarr is the player that I think makes more sense. He's also better defensively to go along with the wider passing range.

Ultimately it's a problem that I don't think we truly have an in-house solution for and it's something we've had issue with for quite some time now. We lacked the ball passing 8 under Ange just as much if not more. It's a shame because initially Bentancur was that player until he had those I juries. Now he's safety first and basically spins and attacks the space anymore, something that he did rather expertly previously.

I'd like to see Gray and Palhinha deep.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

I'd like to see Gray and Palhinha deep.

I would like to see one of them play deep, playing 2 players wide with a central striker is asking a lot of the one link up player. I do agree with a lot of the comments about we should expect the transition in our playing style will take sometime for all elements to gel. Plus the long running injury list.