***OMT Tottenham Hotspur v victims Sunday 31st August 1330 KO***

[poddell]

Some thoughts on today's game:

1. Games hinge on key moments; Chadli's miss just before half time was the turning point. Had that gone it it may - may - have been a different second half
2. It will take Poch more than a few weeks to address the issues we say time and time last year - ask Van Gaal
3. We seem to have a psychological block against the top teams
4. The first signs of progress will come against the QPRs of the premiership - not the top 4.
5. victims were simply magnificent; there is no dishonour to lose to a better team.
6. Vertonghen and Kaboul SUCK! Would love to see Dier and Fazio given a chance
7. Chadli has gone back to default mode
8. Bentaleb needs time and is a major liability against the better teams.
9. Anyone who says Danny Wellbeck would not improve us is living on another planet
10. Poch has started a journey; there will be stumbles and falls but we need to keep on BELIEVING!!

Couldnt have said it better

 

[90sSpursBook]

I know this will be an unpopular post but u really think the traveling victims fans (not necessarily the glory hunting ****neys stuck in the 80s) are the best away fans who travel to the Lane. I know they had a lot to sing about but they have always been in good voice when we've beaten them. They have a variety if songs which they sing throughout and it's all positive - if you took out all out ones about the goons we'd only have 'oh when the spurs' and 'y-word (are we allowed to say it??) army'.

 

[milo]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. Suffice to say that a manager leaving after we spent a 100 million pounds in the summer window because the players we bought weren't the ones he wanted....that ludicrous scenario should be enough to at the very least provoke some consideration of the point on your part. 100 million pounds, and we couldn't close a signing that the manager wanted as his first choice. Do you not think that's a salient point?

I thought that AVB left because of a general break down in relations rather than because of our transfer business

 

[90sSpursBook]

My thoughts on the game: they were better than us and deservedly won.
Sometimes you can analyze things til the cows come home but when one team is that much better than the other you just have to hold your hands up.

I remember a similar reaction after city beat us 5-1 at start of season too.

 

[billyiddo]

Very excited to see who we bring in and how Poch decides he wants to move forward with us. Exciting times despite this defeat. Really good to benchmark where we are right now. Don't get too down about this defeat.

yes a good benchmark, will be interesting to see how we fare against last seasons top 4 over the course of the season

 

[DubaiSpur]

I thought that AVB left because of a general break down in relations rather than because of our transfer business

http://www.thetottenhamway.com/2014/08/08/gomes-tottenham-treated-badly-avb-didnt-want-hugo-lloris/

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...Spurs-not-Lamela-Chadli-Eriksen-and-Chiriches

It is quite clear that a lot of transfers were being made over his head and a lot of his primary targets were being overlooked. Go beyond that and think of the alleged dispute him and Levy had over Ade (a player AVB wanted sold and replaced by another striker), and it's clear that the general breakdown in relations had an enormous deal to do with our transfer business.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Some thoughts on today's game:

1. Games hinge on key moments; Chadli's miss just before half time was the turning point. Had that gone it it may - may - have been a different second half
2. It will take Poch more than a few weeks to address the issues we say time and time last year - ask Van Gaal
3. We seem to have a psychological block against the top teams
4. The first signs of progress will come against the QPRs of the premiership - not the top 4.
5. victims were simply magnificent; there is no dishonour to lose to a better team.
6. Vertonghen and Kaboul SUCK! Would love to see Dier and Fazio given a chance
7. Chadli has gone back to default mode
8. Bentaleb needs time and is a major liability against the better teams.
9. Anyone who says Danny Wellbeck would not improve us is living on another planet
10. Poch has started a journey; there will be stumbles and falls but we need to keep on BELIEVING!!

That's me

But I agree with the rest, well put!

 

[Robbo]

victims were clearly the better team - more aggressive amd more clinical, and passing/moving brilliantly at times. Still, they got their breaks when they needed: Scoring early, allowing them to sit back a little. Us missing two big opportunities to equalise. Going two nil up from a dodgy penalty almost immediately after the second half kicked off. Getting their third moments after we made changes to try something different. We were max unlucky with the timing of all three goals, to be fair. Had Ade/Chadli been more clinical, or Dier/Dowd hadn't messed up for the penalty, chances are we could have gained confidence enough to push victims back. Because even if they were the best team, I really don't think they are that much better than us.

 

[mattls]

Sandro please dont go / Morgan Schneiderlin

Season ticket holder here..

Watching today's game.. I'm still astonished that Sandro cant get in the team. We dont have a leader and that's still a deep lying problem that needs to get solved quickly otherwise we will never move forward even with Poch's new philosophy. It's been an issue for some years now.

When our heads went down after the penalty there was nobody to lift the team and we just regressed very much like the heavy defeats against City, victims and Chelsea last season. Sandro isnt vocal but what he does give is leadership with his fight and this young developing team need help.

I'd love to know why he's not in the side? Has he really regressed since his knee injury last season? I'd love to see training to see if there is an issue. Maybe Argies dont like Brazilians?!!

I see on Sky Sports News just now that Harry has confirmed an approach for Sandro. PLEASE dont go Sandro we need you!

Also, on today's performance Capaoue and Bentaleb did ok but they arent good enough. We need to get Morgan Schneiderlin in tomorrow at all costs, he's top draw and can give us presence and passing ability in midfiled that we currently lack. £10 mill for Townsend + £15 mil cash should do it, prove you got some balls Levy!

 

[milo]

Re: Sandro please dont go / Morgan Schneiderlin

We've already got a Sandro thread, we've already got a Schneiderlin thread, we've got a match thread to discuss today's game and a transfer forum where people are discussing who we might bring in tomorrow. Please can people have a look around and see if a discussion is already going on before starting a new thread.

 

[Modric THFC]

@guardian_sport: victims’s ‘third man running’ tears holes in Tottenham’s system, by @Zonal_Marking http://gu.com/p/4x6tq/tw

[tweet]506111901827629056[/tweet]

He gets this spot on. I'm not sure what Poch expected playing 2 central midfielders against a victims diamond of 4.



"With the full-backs, Eric Dier and Danny Rose, pushing forward, Jan Vertonghen and Younès Kaboul were exposed. They struggled enough with Balotelli and Sturridge but the real problems came against a ‘third man running’, a victims midfielder breaking past the forwards, and in behind the Spurs defence. Etienne Capoue, the Spurs midfielder tasked with protecting the defence, often failed to track these runs sufficiently."

"The first man to exploit this was Jordan Henderson, who came of age in this fixture last year with similarly well-timed runs, and his burst between Spurs defenders and past Capoue created the opener, finished at the far post by Sterling."

"Joe Allen is a less dynamic midfielder than Henderson or Sterling but made a similarly penetrative run, again past Capoue, to win the penalty for the second. The only worry was the fact Henderson and Allen’s adventurousness asked a lot of Steven Gerrard in the deep-lying role – he struggled to get to grips with Christian Eriksen early on and his passing was extremely wasteful. Nevertheless, that was not enough to prevent victims’s dominance. The third goal, scored by Alberto Moreno, was a different move – a brilliant direct solo dribble – but again highlighted Spurs’ inability to deal with runners from deep."

 

[braineclipse]

Oh, don't give me that, you're perceptive enough and intelligent enough to know perfectly well what I mean.

And you're intelligent enough to know that there's more than one solution to a problem. And perceptive enough to realize that Pochettino might not want us to overpay for players.

Back to Stambouli though, don't you think it's Baldini and Poch that have brought him up as an option?

 

[Joesh]

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree then. Suffice to say that a manager leaving after we spent a 100 million pounds in the summer window because the players we bought weren't the ones he wanted....that ludicrous scenario should be enough to at the very least provoke some consideration of the point on your part. 100 million pounds, and we couldn't close a signing that the manager wanted as his first choice. Do you not think that's a salient point?

There is also Baldini to consider, surely there is players he is suggesting too. Lamela, I am sure would have been more a Baldini signing. I would have imagined it was natural for Baldini to want to make a big impact coming in to the job and certainly wouldnt have just settled for AVBs list. Also players like Dier, Sherwood suggests we have been after for years, was he a MP signing . And some of the signings we made under AVB were virtually done before he even arrived.

Something is a bit strange in how we do business that is for sure.

 

[milo]

http://www.thetottenhamway.com/2014/08/08/gomes-tottenham-treated-badly-avb-didnt-want-hugo-lloris/

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...Spurs-not-Lamela-Chadli-Eriksen-and-Chiriches

It is quite clear that a lot of transfers were being made over his head and a lot of his primary targets were being overlooked. Go beyond that and think of the alleged dispute him and Levy had over Ade (a player AVB wanted sold and replaced by another striker), and it's clear that the general breakdown in relations had an enormous deal to do with our transfer business.

I'm not sure that Gomes is the most reliable of sources. We know that AVB would have liked Hulk and Moutinho but were they realistic targets last summer and what wages would they have wanted? If AVB could have only have brought success to WHL with £100k+ players then it was always going to end it tears.

AVB fell out with everyone from Freund, the medical team, Levy, Baldini, the press and his players. Not all of this was because he did not get his first choice targets but all of it was a contributing factor in him leaving.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

He gets this spot on. I'm not sure what Poch expected playing 2 central midfielders against a victims diamond of 4.



"With the full-backs, Eric Dier and Danny Rose, pushing forward, Jan Vertonghen and Younès Kaboul were exposed. They struggled enough with Balotelli and Sturridge but the real problems came against a ‘third man running’, a victims midfielder breaking past the forwards, and in behind the Spurs defence. Etienne Capoue, the Spurs midfielder tasked with protecting the defence, often failed to track these runs sufficiently."

"The first man to exploit this was Jordan Henderson, who came of age in this fixture last year with similarly well-timed runs, and his burst between Spurs defenders and past Capoue created the opener, finished at the far post by Sterling."

"Joe Allen is a less dynamic midfielder than Henderson or Sterling but made a similarly penetrative run, again past Capoue, to win the penalty for the second. The only worry was the fact Henderson and Allen’s adventurousness asked a lot of Steven Gerrard in the deep-lying role – he struggled to get to grips with Christian Eriksen early on and his passing was extremely wasteful. Nevertheless, that was not enough to prevent victims’s dominance. The third goal, scored by Alberto Moreno, was a different move – a brilliant direct solo dribble – but again highlighted Spurs’ inability to deal with runners from deep."

same article:

"... fans can rest assured the new system will become more cohesive given extra time on the training ground, and few opponents will exploit their deficiencies as ruthlessly as victims."

 

[DublinSpur]

My thoughts after the game today...

- They were better than us, but weren't three goals better.
- Overall a massive improvement on our performance against them last year, even if the result wasn't massively different.
- That was never a penalty.
- We should have had a penalty.
- Townsend and Kaboul had terrible games and - sadly - that didn't surprise me... this isn't knee-jerk I've felt we need to get rid of them both for a good while. And they rarely do anything to challenge that view.
- "Plays when we're winning... he only plays when we're winning..." should be Adebayor's new song.
- None of our players really covered themselves in glory... it's not just that victims were quality (and they were) but individually our players seem to be unable to switch it on for the bigger matches... Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli all looked a shadow of the players who played QPR last week. And as I say, that's not ONLY down to the quality of opposition.
- I'm determined to seek positives despite the terrible result and strange psychological block we've developed against the better teams. It'll take Pochettino a while to get things right, but I think he will.

 

[Maltese Falcon]

He gets this spot on. I'm not sure what Poch expected playing 2 central midfielders against a victims diamond of 4.

Today was a learning experience for all parties, especially Poch.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but this game crying for a midfield three of Dembele, Capoue and Paulinho behind Eriksen and Lamela...

 

[NWND]

That's me

But I agree with the rest, well put!

Thing is Danny Wellbeck would improve us immeasurably under Pochettino's system. Sometimes you've got to look beyond just the one player and look at the system. Systems and teams win games and competitions, not individual players per se, although having good individuals helps. Good individuals playing in the right system is the golden ticket.

You look at the difference between us and victims today and we just didn't have the pace that they did to put the fear of GHod into their defence on the break. Makes a massive difference. When we had Bale, Lennon and Defoe, it was downright scary to play against. The fullbacks are scared to go forward, players are more timid in possession etc.

Problem is our pacey players aren't good enough, to play in this system.

Wellbeck has pace, but he also has an end product and he works tirelessly.

Townsend came on and he's always looking to be the hero and he f**ked up. He's not a team player at the end of the day and all the instructions the manager gives him goes out of his head when he steps on that pitch.

On the other hand, Lennon just is the opposite. He's not aggressive enough. He just plays it far too safe.

Wellbeck runs at the defence with pace but also presses and hassles. But he doesn't pick up stupid bookings all the time. There's a reason why he gets picked for England and was in the team under Fergie at Man Utd. He's a hard, hard worker, who has lots of pace, energy, confidence and aggression.

Really, he's perfect for Pochettino and he fits the system, while bringing some cards to the table that this team is lacking. I also see from the videos and background that both Fazio and Stombouli are leaders, who keep the fight going when the chips are down, and that has been sorely missed in our team, so similarly to what a shot in the arm adding Scott Parker to the team was in the wake of the 3-0 and 5-1 defeats to the Manchester clubs a few seasons ago, i'm hoping Poch's signings plug this leadership gap too!

 

[Jurgen the German]

What an omnishambles... Sturridge leaves Vertonghen and Chadli for dead, Kaboul drops deep playing Henderson onside and then ends up isolated when he pulls the ball across the 6 yard box, Dier loses Sterling perhaps thinking for a split second that he should mark Balotelli...

An Rose casually jogging back, does it all the time. Sky mentioned the 24 errors from last season. Must have been at least 10 today.

 

[Jurgen the German]

You can find it all here - http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premiership-transfers/tottenham-hotspur-transfers.html

We also have the lowest spend of any PL club over the past five years - http://www.transferleague.co.uk/league-tables/transfer-league-table-last-five-seasons.html

I don't know how fans can realistically expect us to keep up with these clubs by breaking even or less every year, not to mention afar smaller wage bill. We've been punching above our weight for the past few years, we messed up a bit last summer and victims finally got it right, money will always prevail.

The Bale money distorts that a bit though.