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OMT *** TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR V IPSWICH TOWN *** Sun 10th Nov, 14:00 BST, The Tottenham Hotspur Stadium

braineclipse said:
We push quite far over in several phases of play. We play two wingers who are not always (I'm assuming by design) tracking all the way back. It's quite common for our ball side CB to get quite wide. The other one pretty much has to follow unless one of the midfielders drops in.

On stepping out. There were also situations where Romero stepped out and that helped us win the ball. Those situations are rarely scrutinised, because we win the ball. But the one's where he steps out and doesn't win it often get a lot of attention.

Actually analysing if him stepping out as much as he does is helpful to us or not is much more complex than just looking at the times when it doesn't work.

I'm assuming if Ange thought it was a frequent mistake he would ask Romero to change. As Romero has shown very much that he's capable of in several areas (playing back three vs back four, playing with rapid VdV or slow as a brick Otamendi, less aggression and yellow cards).

Seemingly Ange isn't asking him to change, he's even putting him back in quickly after injury, showing no signs of rotating Romero out in the league as quite a few here have wanted.
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I wonder if the club have accepted that the hole I pointed to that we have is a top quality DM.

As you said, if you had someone with the positional and situational awareness of a Rodri, Rice etc, anticipating when Romero is going to come out aggressively and stepping into that gap you would compliment his style and with VDV's recovery pace alongside that I think we'd be transformed. These players are priceless- look at how Emirates Marketing Project have just fallen off a cliff consistency wise since Rodri got injured.
 
Kompakted said:
I wonder if the club have accepted that the hole I pointed to that we have is a top quality DM.

As you said, if you had someone with the positional and situational awareness of a Rodri, Rice etc, anticipating when Romero is going to come out aggressively and stepping into that gap you would compliment his style and with VDV's recovery pace alongside that I think we'd be transformed. These players are priceless- look at how Emirates Marketing Project have just fallen off a cliff consistency wise since Rodri got injured.
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I think the club has had to accept that there wasn't a top quality DM we could sign in the summer. Took an option on Cardoso hoping that he may get closer to being one while signing Gray that may also be one. Some positive noise around Hall as well. Meanwhile we have two good, but not great options in Bentancur and Bissouma so no point in adding another not top level DM.

Edit: I think I rate Bentancur more than most. I do think he's still learning that DM role for us. His involvement for the goal was not good. Win the ball, take a yellow or stay on your feet. That's the kind of decision making top level DMs very rarely get wrong.

He did really well in some other situations in this game too, overall I think he's doing well. But consistency in decision making and consistency in touches is really important in that role.
 
braineclipse said:
I think the club has had to accept that there wasn't a top quality DM we could sign in the summer. Took an option on Cardoso hoping that he may get closer to being one while signing Gray that may also be one. Some positive noise around Hall as well. Meanwhile we have two good, but not great options in Bentancur and Bissouma so no point in adding another not top level DM.
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I don't think Bissouma or Bentancur are natural DMs. Think both are what you would traditionally call an 8. Think Bissouma often played even further forward for Brighton at times. They're make shift. Think Bissouma in particular has a tendency to wander positionally and mentally and leaves gaps, but even Bentancur doesn't have that danger and shape instinct that the best DMs have. All too often we've let ourselves get too ragged shape-wise in midfield. I don't think you need to play with an out-and-out DM, but in this system, in this league, I think you're far too open to pick up points consistently if you don't.
 
Kompakted said:
I don't think Bissouma or Bentancur are natural DMs. Think both are what you would traditionally call an 8. Think Bissouma often played even further forward for Brighton at times. They're make shift. Think Bissouma in particular has a tendency to wander positionally and mentally and leaves gaps, but even Bentancur doesn't have that danger and shape instinct that the best DMs have. All too often we've let ourselves get too ragged shape-wise in midfield. I don't think you need to play with an out-and-out DM, but in this system, in this league, I think you're far too open to pick up points consistently if you don't.
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I pretty much agree. I have some hope that Bentacur can learn that role and become a more natural player there. He has a lot of the tools, but as you say isn't a natural there at this point. And neither is Bissouma, though somewhat confusingly he does look natural there at times and when on form. I'm not sure if that is form/consistency or more that different game states and oppositions suit him better (or both).

Wouldn't surprise me if that position will be an area of focus next summer.
 
Kompakted said:
I don't think Bissouma or Bentancur are natural DMs. Think both are what you would traditionally call an 8. Think Bissouma often played even further forward for Brighton at times. They're make shift. Think Bissouma in particular has a tendency to wander positionally and mentally and leaves gaps, but even Bentancur doesn't have that danger and shape instinct that the best DMs have. All too often we've let ourselves get too ragged shape-wise in midfield. I don't think you need to play with an out-and-out DM, but in this system, in this league, I think you're far too open to pick up points consistently if you don't.
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They are not.

We only have 1 DM at the club, Gray... We play him LB in UEFA games... We need him getting up to speed as a DM.

We really need to shift to a 4-2-3-1, with Gray as a DM, Bentancur as the box to box player he is.

But we wont, we will continue to play an unbalance midfield, because of what ever silly reason.
 
Kompakted said:
I wonder if the club have accepted that the hole I pointed to that we have is a top quality DM.

As you said, if you had someone with the positional and situational awareness of a Rodri, Rice etc, anticipating when Romero is going to come out aggressively and stepping into that gap you would compliment his style and with VDV's recovery pace alongside that I think we'd be transformed. These players are priceless- look at how Emirates Marketing Project have just fallen off a cliff consistency wise since Rodri got injured.
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In fairness mate, it is a role a few of us have been banging on about since the middle of last season when Yves initially imploded. I am not sure the club will pay for the level that is necessary. It would certainly be a massive step for us. Until then we have to hope Biss keeps growing and maturing...
 
Bedfordspurs said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1856040268950045161
This thread was created by someone to highlight Porro and Johnson I think
But the game should be where’s Cuti
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This is what I keep moaning about, and imo that’s the right wingers defensive zone when a cross has come in from the oppo right and everyone has moved across.

Left back is tight on the cross, probably beaten if it comes in, left cb has to come across, right cb has to track the near post run, that’s the most dangerous, RB has to get into the 6 yard box just to cover space. RW should be covering behind them.
 
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Baleforce said:
This is what I keep moaning about, and imo that’s the right wingers defensive zone when a cross has come in from the oppo right and everyone has moved across.

Left back is tight on the cross, probably beaten if it comes in, left cb has to come across, right cb has to track the near post run, that’s the most dangerous, RB has to get into the 6 yard box just to cover space. RW should be covering behind them.
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Nah
Left back isn’t tight … issue one
The the left centre back is by his Post
But where is the RCB
Wrong place
Did it also vs Lestah and Saudi Sportswashing Machine don’t forget
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Nah
Left back isn’t tight … issue one
The the left centre back is by his Post
But where is the RCB
Wrong place
Did it also vs Lestah and Saudi Sportswashing Machine don’t forget
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I think the LCB should he backing the LB and the RCB comes over front post, everyone takes one place across.

That’s how every back 4 I’ve ever played in or with has done things.

I’m not saying others haven’t made mistakes, but our wingers have to come back and defend in the box, it’s either idiocy or laziness.
 
SkipRat said:
They are not.

We only have 1 DM at the club, Gray... We play him LB in UEFA games... We need him getting up to speed as a DM.

We really need to shift to a 4-2-3-1, with Gray as a DM, Bentancur as the box to box player he is.

But we wont, we will continue to play an unbalance midfield, because of what ever silly reason.
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I think Gray could be both that or a Sarr-esque 8, but I agree, Archie needs to start getting more time in his favoured positions. I really really like him. Brave, does NOT hide and can spot a pass. Great potential.
 
Baleforce said:
I think the LCB should he backing the LB and the RCB comes over front post, everyone takes one place across.

That’s how every back 4 I’ve ever played in or with has done things.

I’m not saying others haven’t made mistakes, but our wingers have to come back and defend in the box, it’s either idiocy or laziness.
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May explain why you didn’t make it
The left back along with a midfielder should pick up the cross
if it comes in the CBS deal with it
That’s how pool defend
It’s also how arsenal defend crosses
 
thfcsteff said:
I think Gray could be both that or a Sarr-esque 8, but I agree, Archie needs to start getting more time in his favoured positions. I really really like him. Brave, does NOT hide and can spot a pass. Great potential.
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I only have question marks over him playing that role because while he clearly looks an incredible young talent, I'm not sure whether again he might be more of a box-to-box. Does he have the positional sense and sense of danger to drop in when Romero pushes out? It doesn't have to be an exceptional player, it just has to be a player with the discipline and tactical sense. I keep going back to Eric Dier. Eric Dier was brilliant at that role. Playing DM and dropping back into the CB spots when the full backs pushed up or maybe when Jan or Toby brought the ball out of defence.

Eric Dier was looked at by a lot of clubs including Man Utd when he was playing DM. He also got in the England team.

Dier's downfall was that he himself saw himself as a CB. That's where he wanted to play, but he was turned too easily and wasn't aggressive/strong enough in the challenge to be elite as a CB. When he dropped back a bit of his star faded for me and the ire of the fans turned on him. That Dier/Dembele pivot though.....it was the absolute cornerstone of that brilliant Poch period.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I guess it’s hard or coach a different way with the volume of games coming thick and fast
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Was it also hard to coach a different way when we had basically one game a week all of last season? Because he did the same thing then too mate.

All opinions of course, but imo he won't coach a different way because he only has one tactic, and one that is being easily seen through and exploited by increasing numbers of managers.
 
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