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*** OMT Tottenham Hotspur v Crystal Palace FC ***

StephenH said:
It's deemed disloyal by many if you criticise many of our players.
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Not if you justify it
When it’s an opinion but not substantiated it’s kinda picking on someone
Then it comes down to how someone sees the game...
From the Doherty discussion I had last night I showed that there is bias against him form an opinion shared after the game.
Dig a player out for an error and that’s fine IMO
 
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Robspur12 said:
It was odd that he persisted game after game with Sissoko and Bergywn. It was enough to make me question what he was doing especially as we lacked any creativity other than Kane dropping deep. We look more like the team we should be now, Bale on form alongside Son and Kane makes us one of the most dangerous teams in Europe let alone the PL.
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I’m guessing because he knew other players aren’t fit enough at the time
 
Raziel said:
Weak list for me -> Davies, Doherty, Dier, Sissko, Winks
Undecided -> Bergwijn (still adapting), Sanchez (last few games seem to show we can get something out of him, just never with him as the senior partner) both young enough
Still to be tested -> Rodon, Tanganga, Skipp, Sessegnon will be the players to see if they make it for us next season
Need to plan for replacing -> Toby & Lloris
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Bergwijn - he gets a lot of goodwill but I’m really struggling to see what he’s good at, without any exceptional pace or shooting ability he just feels like a filler. At various times in their career I’ve wanted us to upgrade Lamela and Moura due to their lack of goals but you can see when available Lamela is disruptive and can drive a team forward, ditto Moura from the central area. We need another option to cover for Bale and Son so at least one of those three needs to go imo.
Sanchez - my best footy mate who I sit next to at WHL is so negative about him I find myself playing devils advocate for a player I’ve never actually rated myself. I just don’t trust him, he’d just awkward on and off the ball and I really struggle to see what level he’s end up at. Vincius and is the one I’d give more time as I’m it convinced but I wouldn’t sign him for a big fee from what I’ve seen so far unless he can make an impact on a prem game.
Tanganga Sessegnon and Skipp could save us a lot of money and adaption if they figure as backup full backs and dm next season. Rodon I am considering part of the squad, if we get two new ones in him and Toby would not be an unreasonable reserve partnership, especially as he has played mostly as a LCB. I wouldn’t mind Tanganga there too, but happy for him to focus on rb if that’s what Mourinho wants, I do sympathise with Dier getting shifted around from his preferred position and I think RB will be an easier path to the first team right now.
If we can’t cash in on Lloris in the summer then we definitely need to sign someone who can challenge him. Ideally someone who will come for crosses.

where would Lo Celso figure in your planning for next season?
 
It all about opinion substantiated or otherwise.
We are talking about football fans here. Let us not overthink it.
 
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Bedfordspurs said:
no players deserve vitriol
All the players deserve some respect
New signings deserve time too
But there is always an element that with never ever from their bias
That’s the scary thing
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I agree, but I also think it depends on context. I don't think fans should talk brick to players on their social media accounts or at the stadium, for instance, but in a forum like this, that players very very likely don't read - I don't see the problem.
 
Daisuk said:
I agree, but I also think it depends on context. I don't think fans should talk brick to players on their social media accounts or at the stadium, for instance, but in a forum like this, that players very very likely don't read - I don't see the problem.
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It’s the bias I don’t get
Player X is crap because...
Next game they play well and low and behold the same thing gets regurgitated
It’s boring TBH

and I wholeheartedly agree the venom in social media is just odd and show show angry some people are
 
Bedfordspurs said:
It’s the bias I don’t get
Player X is crap because...
Next game they play well and low and behold the same thing gets regurgitated
It’s boring TBH

and I wholeheartedly agree the venom in social media is just odd and show show angry some people are
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There is a scale though and the majority of players would appear closer to the top than the bottom of the ranking.

Just like in other walks of life once someone has an opinion of you it can take twice as much effort to reverse it, by the same token previous performance or perception of performance grants more leeway. I’d like to think eventually the cream floats the top and whatever the inverse of that sinks to the bottom. I’ve been fortunate in my career to usually be closer to the top than the bottom but I do recall one job where for the first time I was in a difficult situation to reverse, mostly due to a complete mis selling of the role and supervising people who were incumbent to that firm and wanted the role of taken as an outsider. I’ve always considered myself a Berbatov in the work place as I don’t have to try that hard but in that situation it felt everything I did was under extra scrutiny and I had to double check everything I did, plus have a retort for any review by the senior manager as any error was just layering on the already held judgement that I wasn’t doing a good job. One standout was being castigated for a spelling mistake on a couple of senior managers surnames in an email that I had to point out was spell checked and changed after I’d sent it to my US counterpart!

Of all the players that I have had a negative opinion about I think Aurier has done the most to reverse it, recently, even if still not to 100% trust, certainly enough to justify himself as clearly first choice in his position at present.
The thing I find most jarring on here is not so much people having a consistent overall view on a player but is the rare ability to credit any rival player or manager for anything, ever :D
 
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MKSpur said:
There is a scale though and the majority of players would appear closer to the top than the bottom of the ranking. Just like in other walks of life once someone has an opinion of you it can take twice as much effort to reverse it, by the same token previous performance or perception of performance grants more leeway. I’d like to think eventually the cream floats the top and whatever the inverse of that sinks to the bottom.
Of all the players that I have had a negative opinion about I think Aurier has done the most to reverse it, even if not 400% certainly enough to justify himself as clearly first choice in his position at present.
The thing I find most jarring on here is not so much people having a consistent overall view on a player but is the rare ability to credit any rival player or manager for anything, ever :D
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Aurier has turned his game around massively
So much so I’ve even heard opposition fans talks him up as a player
Actual completion for his place must be the reason as it cant be coaching
And I agree massively so no one ever wants to give the opposition credit. Fulham were great second half vs us. We didn’t i believe change our tactics but I can guarantee that many fans said we did... rather than many recognising they changed their set up and upped their game.
 
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Not being av fan of player x, y or z, or manager this or that, that is fine.
Be critical, by all means. But be fair! And be factual.

The ones that get me are the moaners, who open the team sheet and are disappointed when their "favourite" spacegoat isn't on it, because then they can't moan about how he will ruin the game. So they do it anyway! "At least player x isn't going to ruin our game today!" and flimflam like that.
And, who compares apples and pears. Nobody would find it fair to compare Kane and Lloris' goalscoring records. (ok, that is a bit of an extreme example) But comparing two very different types of midfield players who play very different roles by the same set of criteria is also very unfair.
If only one used criteria, that is. Because most of the time facts don't play into it, it is pure "feeling". Counter the moans with fact, and you get "yeah you say the facts show this and that, but it felt more like he was rubbish!"
Of course it felt like he was rubbish, they had decided he would be rubbish before he entered the feckin' pitch!!

Doing my head in, they are...

(Just realized I'm as predisposed as them, I've started to dislike their posts before I've even read them. Fortunately most of them are on other forum and Facebook, and not here. Only decent folks here, of course! :D )
 
Daisuk said:
I agree, but I also think it depends on context. I don't think fans should talk brick to players on their social media accounts or at the stadium, for instance, but in a forum like this, that players very very likely don't read - I don't see the problem.
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I do. I think fans read these forums, gauge the general feeling, and are like sheep to opinions. Media use the forums as well. Especially with no fans in the stadiums, it's the only way to gauge fan opinion. Saying players don't read forums is like saying they don't read papers.
 
LemonadeMoney said:
I do. I think fans read these forums, gauge the general feeling, and are like sheep to opinions. Media use the forums as well. Especially with no fans in the stadiums, it's the only way to gauge fan opinion. Saying players don't read forums is like saying they don't read papers.
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Maybe they do - what do I know. I still think there's a big difference between people writing negative things about a player in a corner of the internet and fans actively targeting players at the stadium or in social media.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Aurier has turned his game around massively
So much so I’ve even heard opposition fans talks him up as a player
Actual completion for his place must be the reason as it cant be coaching
And I agree massively so no one ever wants to give the opposition credit. Fulham were great second half vs us. We didn’t i believe change our tactics but I can guarantee that many fans said we did... rather than many recognising they changed their set up and upped their game.
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I disagree. While I'm sure the competition has helped to stick a poker up Aurier's arse, I think much of the improvement is down to coaching. In the old 4-4-2 days, FB used to be one of the easiest positions to play. Defend a bit, run up the line when you can, blah blah blah. Now you're expected to know when to attack, when to defend, step inside, press the opposition winger...or their fullback...or their inside forward. I think first season got caught in two minds too much and we all saw what happened.

It may just be that he's "got it", be it from Mourinho or the training ground or just some more experience. He always had the tools -- energy, pace, spring, etc. -- it was just the mental side that was lacking. Whether Mourinho has simplified his game or taught him well, I don't really care!
 
Having the availability of replays anytime I want - via DAZN streaming service - I've gone back to look at our goals from Sunday. Like a monkey on a joy buzzer, truth be told.

Anyway, as I've navigated between all the moments of magnificence, it struck me how sensibly the game was managed after we took the lead. There's some really nice passages where all we're doing is stroking the ball between the midfield and defence, out wide and back in, a quick threatening pass forward, the back out and cycled back around again.

Earlier, in our slump, that sort of play was being criticized because we weren't going for the jugular when we had a lead. This time, there's a confidence and certainty in this type of play that was absent previously. Maybe it's down to the quality of opposition, but it's also nice to see us hitting quick, sharp passes to give everyone touches of the ball yet preserving energy. And all the while threatening to unleash another potent attack as an inside pass frees up someone to move forward. Very few turnovers as well.

After despairing over our form a few weeks ago, it's reassuring that all the pieces put in place, that gave us such a sense of excitement at the start of the season, are finally beginning to come together. It'll probably kill me, but I'm feeling optimistic.
 
greatwhitenorf said:
Having the availability of replays anytime I want - via DAZN streaming service - I've gone back to look at our goals from Sunday. Like a monkey on a joy buzzer, truth be told.

Anyway, as I've navigated between all the moments of magnificence, it struck me how sensibly the game was managed after we took the lead. There's some really nice passages where all we're doing is stroking the ball between the midfield and defence, out wide and back in, a quick threatening pass forward, the back out and cycled back around again.

Earlier, in our slump, that sort of play was being criticized because we weren't going for the jugular when we had a lead. This time, there's a confidence and certainty in this type of play that was absent previously. Maybe it's down to the quality of opposition, but it's also nice to see us hitting quick, sharp passes to give everyone touches of the ball yet preserving energy. And all the while threatening to unleash another potent attack as an inside pass frees up someone to move forward. Very few turnovers as well.

After despairing over our form a few weeks ago, it's reassuring that all the pieces put in place, that gave us such a sense of excitement at the start of the season, are finally beginning to come together. It'll probably kill me, but I'm feeling optimistic.
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A big difference was we only had one player yesterday who isn’t capable on the ball. Abs even the Sanchez is playing better with the ball than he has before
In the past we would have sissoko, Davies and Sanchez and that’s a lot of balls coming back our way.
Yesterday sissoko came on and looked comfortable coming in to a team in tune
 
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