***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur v Arsenal***

[Bedfordspurs]

We have beaten United twice in the last few seasons
We have beaten Chelsea and drawn twice in the past few seasons
We have drawn three times with arsenal and beaten them once
We have drawn once and beaten Liverpool once
We have beaten city 3 times and drawn once

It’s absolute nonsense about us being any more appalling than any other top 6 side against one another. Generally the home team tend to beat the away sides in these big games or it’s a draw.

This season we have had a couple of bad results against Swansea and Burnley. Chelsea lost to Burnley at home. We have beaten Huddersfield 4-0 where united lost to them.

Aside from city who exactly are running away from us?

United are 3 points above us. They have played Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea
We have now played Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Arsenal

I fail to see why you put these teams on a pedal stool to us. We have far outperformed all of them in the past few seasons and you are doing us a huge disservice in your assessment. We sit currently in fourth, above Arsenal despite playing them away, competing in the champions league (while they effectively have midweeks off), have been without Wanyama and now Alderweireld for lengthy stretches (not even counting the likes of Rose and Lamela).

Personally aside from city right now, I would be disappointed with throwing points away to any other side. That’s not me slating the team, that’s basically how good I think we are now. We underperformed yesterday, but I think there are a host of reasons we can point to. I’d like to see how any top 6 rival would fare against another top 6 side straight after an international break. Mourinho did well to get a point at anfield tbh

You forgot to add that Mou hasn’t beaten any of the top 6 away whilst at United

And I believe in our 18 game awa run Arsenal’s record may be worst (they’re we’re bottom of the mini league I saw)

I also hate playing at midday so close to recent games. United was exactly the same and it’s all for £££

You never get context after a poor defeat as people will dwell on the negatives

I’ve got mates talking about the ground not being finished in time cos we lost yesterday (they met some guy there who knew a mate of a mate ...) but if we had won I swear it wouldn’t have even been a passing thought

 

[awesome dawson]

Those are the sort of games when Wanyama is essential. Lose control of the middle and you're well and truly up against it.

 

[thfcsteff]

You mean not playing any defensive mid

It’s why I thought we were playing 4-2-3-1
Play Dier and Dembele in the middle would have won the midfield battle for me

Well, I would be playing Dier and Winks deep, right? No room for Dembele IMO, he needs to be a sub option for now. Dier and Winks gives us great balance ana strength. Of course, when Victor is free it creates a selection issue. Winks has to start if fit simply because given that we have lost a dash of pace in our WBs we need to move the ball quickly from deep positions...


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[DubaiSpur]

It’s absolute nonsense about us being any more appalling than any other top 6 side against one another. Generally the home team tend to beat the away sides in these big games or it’s a draw.

Sure. I don't subscribe to that 'bad record against top sides away from home' either - Liverpool are an exception, and most sides are bad against rivals away from home. However, we have played four this season, both home and away - and only won one game, against Liverpool,with three other losses. I believe that makes us the worst-performing top six club, in terms of our results against our rivals, *this* season - not our records over the years, this season. That's important to note, even as the 'bad away from home' meme is scorned.

This season we have had a couple of bad results against Swansea and Burnley. Chelsea lost to Burnley at home. We have beaten Huddersfield 4-0 where united lost to them.

Well, I'm glad you agree - they were bad results.

Aside from city who exactly are running away from us?

United are 3 points above us. They have played Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea
We have now played Chelsea, Liverpool, United, Arsenal

No one is running away from us - I never made that point.

I fail to see why you put these teams on a pedal stool to us. We have far outperformed all of them in the past few seasons and you are doing us a huge disservice in your assessment. We sit currently in fourth, above Arsenal despite playing them away, competing in the champions league (while they effectively have midweeks off), have been without Wanyama and now Alderweireld for lengthy stretches (not even counting the likes of Rose and Lamela).

Personally aside from city right now, I would be disappointed with throwing points away to any other side. That’s not me slating the team, that’s basically how good I think we are now. We underperformed yesterday, but I think there are a host of reasons we can point to. I’d like to see how any top 6 rival would fare against another top 6 side straight after an international break. Mourinho did well to get a point at anfield tbh

I'm not putting anyone on a pedal stool - I don't even think I was making that point, either. You're honestly going off on a tangent I didn't start you down, mate. In fact, I think we actually agree - you're disappointed about throwing points away to any other side, and that was exactly my point.

 

[DubaiSpur]

Mate perhaps im not explaining myself well. Of course we want to beat arsenal. Of course I want us to beat arsenal. But it doesnt mean as much to me as it did when we were brick.... because even if we did beat them i would be hopeful that it wouldnt be the highlight of our season. Whereas when we were brick if we did beat them, it really was likely to be best bit of the season.

That' all I'm saying. Im' disappointed with how we performed yes. But we are moving in the right direction as a club. So one bad performance, even in the NLD just doesn't get me down as it once did. Because I'm pretty sure it's a blip.

Yes, it wouldn't have been the highlight of our season. I agree with you - but I don't agree at all with the way you put iti n your previous, is all. It's important, vitally so - and we absolutely cannot, must not be uppity about where we are as a club. Will it define our season? No. Is it vitally important to win? Yes, because it's an NLD, and whether we're great or we're sh*te, it is a fixture that means an awful lot to this club.

Wenger took Arsenal to heights we can only dream of - the man's won almost as many things with them as we have over our entire *history*. And he takes it deadly seriously - to the point where, even when we were an irrelevance to them, they still made sure they never lost to us. It means that much, on both sides. And just because we finished above them once doesn't mean it's now okay to lose to them, is all - that's what I got heated about.

I appreciate that you were trying to say something else - I misread it a bit too, and I apologize for that.

 

[DubaiSpur]

@DubaiSpur, you are not the only one hurting after yesterday. There is not a single Spurs fan who is not aware of where we are as a club, what we've won and not won over the years. You don't need to go on like you are educating us. We are just trying to put a bit of perspective on a bad day in the office and maybe, it's not worth plumbing the depths of despair over a game of football, no matter how important you think it is. You are a wonderful poster, one of my favourite reads on here, but you shift from the sublime when we win to the ridiculous when we lose.

I'm not 'educating' anyone, mate. If someone uses the logic that this isn't important because we have bigger fish to fry, then it is the most straightforward logic in the world to ask *what* those things are given our history. Simple as. I appreciate that everyone's hurting, and that everyone's trying to put a bit of perspective on what was a black, painful day. I don't mind it - I really do want to read different perspectives and maybe feel better about yesterday. But I can't abide that particular sort of logic, which is why I initially asked @DTA to use a different approach.

Can't you try and find a bit of middle ground?

Apart from not saying anything at all...no. Football doesn't work like that for me, and never has, as much as it pains me to say it. I plumb the blackest moods possible when we lose, and I have a little bit of unconstrained happiness when we win. There's no middle ground, mate.

And believe me, I think I prefer it that way. I honestly struggle to feel much of *anything* in general - most of my life is just me being internally grey and emotionless in a variety of situations. I fake emotions when I need to, and I do it quite well because I've been doing it all my life...but honestly, few things elicit any genuine, honest emotions from me, positive or negative. Of those, one of them is spending time with the people I love. And another is football.

 

[thfcsteff]

You mention two entirely different games. Why does one have any impact on the other. How can you possibly say what will happen based on just 20 mins of football. Ok they had been marginally better, but had they not scored you don’t know that we may have countered and scored ourselves there by completely changing the game. We let ourselves down ultimately, but these fine margins gave them the necessary lift also.

I think people have conveniently forgotten that we had created some good situations, hit the post and had just approached the moment where Arse were slowing down. I believe we had ridden the storm, and had the first decision not been given, 0-0 at HT IMO.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

 

[Bullet]

What a hugely disappointing result. It’s one of a very few games I haven’t watched or listened to since about 1990, as I was moving house. On the upside it was a good one to miss.

I was tired and annoyed so to cheer myself up a bit, at 9pm I sat down with a drink to watch highlights from the other games that day... the top teams all rattled in 3 goals without breaking sweat. Sheesh.

In terms of key moments this season...

We got level with Cheatski and then gifted them a goal in the last second.
We matched up ok-ish against United but they scored an easy goal from a straight ball.
We were well beaten by the Ars.Anal.

Injuries galore...
Victor out all year. Toby. Dembélé. Rose. Kane. Lamela.

Pretty deflating stuff; this is where Poch earns his corn in terms of motivating the team and instilling belief.

I’d like him to get Dier and Winks into midfield with Alli and/or Eriksen helping. Then we dominate games.

Central defence can be 2 or 3 of Sánchez Vertonghen Foyth Davies etc... but I want a strong midfield.

 

[StephenH]

We have recently have been playing like the team that beat Real Madrid and think they have arrived, big time Charlie’s.

Think they should remember they are the team that let a two goal lead go and got beaten by West Ham.

 

[billyiddo]

We have recently have been playing like the team that beat Real Madrid and think they have arrived, big time Charlie’s.

Think they should remember they are the team that let a two goal lead go and got beaten by West Ham.

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that's the case

 

[Abbeyspur]

I think people have conveniently forgotten that we had created some good situations, hit the post and had just approached the moment where Arse were slowing down. I believe we had ridden the storm, and had the first decision not been given, 0-0 at HT IMO.

.

Totally agree. This has been a frustrating weekend of seeing numerous rewriting of what really happened in the first half of the NLD. Yes we were totally outplayed in the first 10 minutes as Arsenal came out of the traps faster than expected and our passing during that period was poor. However, we had gradually settled into the game and had a few good chances prior to the non-free kick. Arsenal were never going to keep up the pace that they started with and had the free kick not been given it is likely that the game would have continued to be at least even until half time. The first goal, without doubt, allowed Arsenal to go back to their earlier fast style of play which I believe would not have happened without the scoring of the 1st goal

 

[StephenH]

There's absolutely nothing to suggest that's the case

Look at the performance against Palace and the amount of hyperbole since the Real game.
I truly believe some of our players have been effected.

 

[StephenH]

I think people have conveniently forgotten that we had created some good situations, hit the post and had just approached the moment where Arse were slowing down. I believe we had ridden the storm, and had the first decision not been given, 0-0 at HT IMO.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app

Spot on.

 

[billyiddo]

Look at the performance against Palace and the amount of hyperbole since the Real game.
I truly believe some of our players have been effected.

Palace was no different to any other home league game this season against sides which sit back, see Burnley Swansea and whatever the other one was.

You're dreaming up a narrative here

 

[Spursman]

Let's be honest, we haven't really looked great this season apart from a couple of good results against Madrid & Liverpool. We have struggled to beat the so-called smaller teams and lost to the better ones.

I think the players and some of the fans believe in the media hype. That's the problem with Spurs. We beat Madrid on their off day and all of a sudden we are world beaters and have made it.

That is what great teams are made of, they want to win every game and go out with 110% effort every week. I still think that Michael Carrick was spot on when he said. "at spurs, it was ok to lose sometimes" at UTD it's unacceptable. Until we get to that mentality as a club we will never win the league bar a Leicester type miracle

Champions League Qualification and the FA Cup need to be our aim.

City will win the league
Utd will prob grab second

Chelsea, Spurs, Liverpool & Arsenal competing for the other 2 spots.

 

[a spur from swansea]

Every time we come up against a side that play a high intensity pressing game we struggle, we never in a game to ride it out and get a result at the end . Dortmund a few years ago,most times we play at Liverpool and the Goons when they turn up,we seem to play in third gear with players surprised that sides press on us and we have no answer at all...The only times we gain any sort of advantage if teams sort of sit back or in a bad patch themselves.

If we want to compete at the top,we got to strenth the squad,will we go out in January and pay £50/60 m for players i don't think so and their is the cruz of the problem,other sides in the top 5 have a stronger and deeper squads,not better players but more choice,we are crying out for a Mahrez type of player, a winger who can take the ball down the line 50/60 yards to allivate pressure,someone to take the ball to the by line. A physical midfield player that can actually beat a player and shoot once or while.

I feel sometimes we slog our players to exhaustion... the same 13/14 get picked most weeks,because we have no other option,and like Saturday if it doesn't work, the game just drifts away from us because we have no other option,to call upon.

When was the last time Levy and the board actually made a signing that made us think wow we needed that signing so we can win the title,we can't rely on finding jems in our development squad because that takes time.

We have the best TEAM in the Premiership but not the best squads....

 

[StephenH]

Palace was no different to any other home league game this season against sides which sit back, see Burnley Swansea and whatever the other one was.

You're dreaming up a narrative here

That is of course your opinion and I will defend your right to say it. But in my opinion, Palace defended very well indeed and did not just "sit back" and could/should with bit more composure won quite handsomely.
We had a very good result against Real but I'm of the opinion we are letting all hypobole around Pochettino and our good young team distract us.

 

[billyiddo]

That is of course your opinion and I will defend your right to say it. But in my opinion, Palace defended very well indeed and did not just "sit back" and could/should with bit more composure won quite handsomely.
We had a very good result against Real but I'm of the opinion we are letting all hypobole around Pochettino and our good young team distract us.

Palace played 9 men behind the ball and pumped it to Zaha and the CF...

Having an opinion is fine but you need something tangible for it to be based on if you expect anyone to give it any credit - the results and performances since the Real Madrid game are totally in line with our results/performances prior to that game and throughout this season (and in the case of away games v direct rivals beyond this season too)

You've just come up with something to blame it all on to make yourself feel better, fact is Arsenal were better than us on the day, got the rub of the green and we had several players missing and several players carrying knocks/not 100 %. It happens.

 

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

It was Zaha and Townsend - there wasnt a CF

 

[StephenH]

Palace played 9 men behind the ball and pumped it to Zaha and the CF...

Having an opinion is fine but you need something tangible for it to be based on if you expect anyone to give it any credit - the results and performances since the Real Madrid game are totally in line with our results/performances prior to that game and throughout this season (and in the case of away games v direct rivals beyond this season too)

You've just come up with something to blame it all on to make yourself feel better, fact is Arsenal were better than us on the day, got the rub of the green and we had several players missing and several players carrying knocks/not 100 %. It happens.

Could not agree more.
I feel fine by the way. Arsenal have been doing better of late so no problems there.
I believe the hype surround all things Spurs at present is very "tangible" and it would/is be dangerous if we start to believe it.