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***OMT - Tottenham Hotspur Football Club vs AFC Bournemouth***

thfcsteff said:
And this my friend is where we're at.
I agree and have said all along that if THAT is the destination for Frank's game, then I will be very unhappy. I am waiting for proof it isn't.
There are people who do not believe that is the destination and have faith that the destination for Frank's game is decidedly m ore aligned with the football we want.
I desperately, desperately want those folks to be right. But I personally need a sign.
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Him coming back to his Brentford teams scoring goals to me speaks to some of the misalgnment between him and what significant parts of the fanbase wants.

Of course if we're scoring goals and getting results everyone will be happy enough whatever the style of play is. But for me at least scoring goals and playing like Brentford isn't the path I want the club to take. I don't think that's right for us.

But that then also comes back to the lack of an identity at the club, why he was hired etc. And the roles of whoever is in charge of what exactly in the hierarchy above Frank.
 
braineclipse said:
Him coming back to his Brentford teams scoring goals to me speaks to some of the misalgnment between him and what significant parts of the fanbase wants.

Of course if we're scoring goals and getting results everyone will be happy enough whatever the style of play is. But for me at least scoring goals and playing like Brentford isn't the path I want the club to take. I don't think that's right for us.

But that then also comes back to the lack of an identity at the club, why he was hired etc. And the roles of whoever is in charge of what exactly in the hierarchy above Frank.
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...indeed, and this is why I think we need to deal with Lange as a matter of urgency.
 
thfcsteff said:
...indeed, and this is why I think we need to deal with Lange as a matter of urgency.
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It's why I'm a bit "meh" about the Paratici back to Italy rumours.

Don't want it to happen in January, we probably need him here to maximise our chances of actually getting good business done. But I see nothing from him pointing towards him being someone to put an identity in place that's well aligned with the "DNA" of the club.

Lange, I don't know. Difficult to say really, but him being joined by Paratici certainly doesn't paint a picture of someone with the authority to set an identity.

If the Paratici rumours have truth to them I think getting the DoF thing sorted first, then think about who should be the manager next season is the way to go.
 
thfcsteff said:
And this my friend is where we're at.
I agree and have said all along that if THAT is the destination for Frank's game, then I will be very unhappy. I am waiting for proof it isn't.
There are people who do not believe that is the destination and have faith that the destination for Frank's game is decidedly m ore aligned with the football we want.
I desperately, desperately want those folks to be right. But I personally need a sign.
Click to expand...
You are a patient man. As the finger said in the Bible; Mene Mene Tekel Uparsin. He has been weighed and found wanting. I personally have no faith in him and my support is only because I support Spurs.

In my opinion, TF is not good enough for the destination Spurs wants to reach. He is yet to win any trophy in his career apart from the Championships playoff final. His win record is less than 45 percent in every club job he has had. He is also 52 yrs old and I am unsure he can change.

I also pray that he proves me very wrong in future and I eat some humble pie but the chances are minimal.
 
Finney Is Back said:
The same Bodo Glimt who defeated Lazio in the quarter finals? Irrespective, you can only beat what is put in front of you in any competition. We'd not seen silverware in Europe for 41 years. We had a glorious season last year. Our best since ENIC took over the club.

Had we gone out of the Europa earlier then we would've finished a fair amount higher in the league. After our back to back wins agianst Man Utd and Brentford basically all but secured our safety we went all out for the Cup. Granted, we wouldn't have got close to qualifying for Europe again but neither will we this season.
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When I remember how poorly we performed in the Europa Conference League in Mourinho and Conte's times. When I recall how we hadn't won a trophy since 2008. I am flabbergasted at fellow fans who do not appreciate or understand last season's trophy.
 
afsoc4life said:
You are a patient man. As the finger said in the Bible; Mene Mene Tekel Uparsin. He has been weighed and found wanting. I personally have no faith in him and my support is only because I support Spurs.

In my opinion, TF is not good enough for the destination Spurs wants to reach. He is yet to win any trophy in his career apart from the Championships playoff final. His win record is less than 45 percent in every club job he has had. He is also 52 yrs old and I am unsure he can change.

I also pray that he proves me very wrong in future and I eat some humble pie but the chances are minimal.
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Makes you wonder why the club appointed him then - and why so many said upon his appointment that he was the perfect fit.
 
afsoc4life said:
When I remember how poorly we performed in the Europa Conference League in Mourinho and Conte's times. When I recall how we hadn't won a trophy since 2008. I am flabbergasted at fellow fans who do not appreciate or understand last season's trophy.
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It is a bit like those who don't like Brennan Johnson have to try to find something disparaging about the goals he scored for us, as though those goals are lesser goals than a player they like scores for us. Some people didn't like Ange and wanted him out so have to try to find something to denigrate his achievements over his two years of a 5th place PL finish and then winning the Europa League - which is the best two year period we've had since a good few years before ENIC took over Spurs. Of course those same people who thought Ange was awful and 'any old manager could have us in the top 6 or 7 with this squad' are realising just how wrong they were, though many of them are now trying to change history and say that they had always said it was how bad the squad was.
 
Mikey10 said:
Makes you wonder why the club appointed him then - and why so many said upon his appointment that he was the perfect fit.
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- He earned his shot, just like Potter before him, just like Glasner, Iraola, Silva all have (not all of those will make the step up successfully)
- Very easy argument to say, with the lowest budget in league, Brentford punched above their weight, so given a better squad and better budget, you get better results?
- Players like Mbeumo, Damsguard, Wissa, Toney all improved while he was there
- Seemed tactically flexible and the season in Championship, they had (by reports) been more attacking)
- Seemed to have a personality that would work
- A fair assessment compared to say Ange would have been, Frank should have immediately brought the floor up on results but the ceiling would have been unknown.

The issue is, it feels like the club didn't do the due diligence in the interview process

- How was Frank going to shift tactically to a more possession based side?
- What was he going to offer besides just direct back to front football?
- What was his system/patterns of play (not whack to Kudus, if he can't beat his man, back pass to Porro for booming cross from deep)
- And what type of player was he targeting (will tell you more of the above)

And maybe he had answers and he just can't get it across to these players, but it feels very Nuno, we went for a safe pair of hands that had a lower level club punching above it's weight, but that doesn't translate to the thing that is Spurs.

For me the bigger failure is we are ~30 games in, and the club hasn't seen it, hasn't acted on it and like some fans (which is fine because that isn't a fan's job) are just in a hoping he can turn it around phase.
 
Raziel said:
- He earned his shot, just like Potter before him, just like Glasner, Iraola, Silva all have (not all of those will make the step up successfully)
- Very easy argument to say, with the lowest budget in league, Brentford punched above their weight, so given a better squad and better budget, you get better results?
- Players like Mbeumo, Damsguard, Wissa, Toney all improved while he was there
- Seemed tactically flexible and the season in Championship, they had (by reports) been more attacking)
- Seemed to have a personality that would work
- A fair assessment compared to say Ange would have been, Frank should have immediately brought the floor up on results but the ceiling would have been unknown.

The issue is, it feels like the club didn't do the due diligence in the interview process

- How was Frank going to shift tactically to a more possession based side?
- What was he going to offer besides just direct back to front football?
- What was his system/patterns of play (not whack to Kudus, if he can't beat his man, back pass to Porro for booming cross from deep)
- And what type of player was he targeting (will tell you more of the above)

And maybe he had answers and he just can't get it across to these players, but it feels very Nuno, we went for a safe pair of hands that had a lower level club punching above it's weight, but that doesn't translate to the thing that is Spurs.

For me the bigger failure is we are ~30 games in, and the club hasn't seen it, hasn't acted on it and like some fans (which is fine because that isn't a fan's job) are just in a hoping he can turn it around phase.
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I would always be guarded about employing a manager from a club where it is all about the structure and continuity. Clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth - clubs who have properly invested in their data and scouting and know exactly who they will replace each player, coach and manager with when they get poached. I would want to see managers from those clubs go and do well elsewhere before employing them at a club like Spurs.

THFC are the opposite of the Brighton/Bournemouth/Brentford type clubs . We lurch from one manager to the next, getting them a few players they want to play for manager A's system, then having not really backed him we sack him and appoint manager B, with a completely different philosophy making a whole bunch of players signed for manager A redundant. We then repeat that cycle over and over with no continuity in mind at all.

One of the reasons that Marco Silva was my favourite to succeed Ange, out of the not particularly inspiring list of managers that would be prepared to join our brick show of a club, is because he isn't one of those managers. He has good management experience and a lot of his experience is in managing clubs who aren't nearly as well run and forward thinking as the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford when it comes to data and scouting and recruitment. He isn't wedded to a single system, seeming to be able to construct a team out of what he has, being happy to play young players, and also seemingly having good input into players who can come in and improve them who are nowhere near the top end of the market. He ticks a bunch of the boxes that it seems our club valued in their manager search last summer - PL experience, able to keep one of the less fashionable clubs in the PL, not particularly vociferous and demanding of the board wanting new players all of the time, will work with what he's got/given. He might actually have half a chance of doing OK at Spurs if given our rag tag of a squad and given a bigger budget than he is used to for improvements.

Somebody like that would be a good stop gap to keep us in the PL and perhaps even around the lower european spots while a proper restructuring DoF like Rangnick came in to change the whole football structure at the club.

Another manager that might work here is somebody like Roberto De Zerbi. Did well at Shakhtar and Brighton and is now doing well at Marseille, getting them 2nd place last year and has them in 3rd this year - while being a manager that plays an attacking style of football. I suspect he would be a bit too demanding of our board and owners though.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I would always be guarded about employing a manager from a club where it is all about the structure and continuity. Clubs like Brighton, Brentford, Bournemouth - clubs who have properly invested in their data and scouting and know exactly who they will replace each player, coach and manager with when they get poached. I would want to see managers from those clubs go and do well elsewhere before employing them at a club like Spurs.

THFC are the opposite of the Brighton/Bournemouth/Brentford type clubs . We lurch from one manager to the next, getting them a few players they want to play for manager A's system, then having not really backed him we sack him and appoint manager B, with a completely different philosophy making a whole bunch of players signed for manager A redundant. We then repeat that cycle over and over with no continuity in mind at all.

One of the reasons that Marco Silva was my favourite to succeed Ange, out of the not particularly inspiring list of managers that would be prepared to join our brick show of a club, is because he isn't one of those managers. He has good management experience and a lot of his experience is in managing clubs who aren't nearly as well run and forward thinking as the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton and Brentford when it comes to data and scouting and recruitment. He isn't wedded to a single system, seeming to be able to construct a team out of what he has, being happy to play young players, and also seemingly having good input into players who can come in and improve them who are nowhere near the top end of the market. He ticks a bunch of the boxes that it seems our club valued in their manager search last summer - PL experience, able to keep one of the less fashionable clubs in the PL, not particularly vociferous and demanding of the board wanting new players all of the time, will work with what he's got/given. He might actually have half a chance of doing OK at Spurs if given our rag tag of a squad and given a bigger budget than he is used to for improvements.

Somebody like that would be a good stop gap to keep us in the PL and perhaps even around the lower european spots while a proper restructuring DoF like Rangnick came in to change the whole football structure at the club.

Another manager that might work here is somebody like Roberto De Zerbi. Did well at Shakhtar and Brighton and is now doing well at Marseille, getting them 2nd place last year and has them in 3rd this year - while being a manager that plays an attacking style of football. I suspect he would be a bit too demanding of our board and owners though.
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If Paratici is still here I expect de Zerbi will be high on list when it comes to choosing the next manager. His “abrasive” personality wouldn’t go down well with a lot of people I suspect.
 
Mcfee said:
If Paratici is still here I expect de Zerbi will be high on list when it comes to choosing the next manager. His “abrasive” personality wouldn’t go down well with a lot of people I suspect.
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For a laugh, rumour yesterday that he's on the list for Frank's replacement

Maybe you get to claim ITK status?
 
Raziel said:
For a laugh, rumour yesterday that he's on the list for Frank's replacement

Maybe you get to claim ITK status?
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I hadn’t seen that but no I’m definitely not ITK, de Zerbi has been linked in the past and he feels like a Paratici “type”. I have the feeling that FP didn’t have much say on the last 2 managers but if he’s still here he’ll have a strong influence on the next. De Zerbi will have issues with passing the “not a clown shoe” test so probably wouldn’t be well received here.
Edit: anyway it was @Finney Is Back who mentioned him first 🤣
 
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I heard a rumour that de Zerbi endorses fascists and wife beaters and is an arrogant prick who will force his own sacking by throwing his toys out of the pram when it doesn't go his way, like Conte did. Allegedly.

I feel one of Thomas Frank's main attributes (in the eyes of the board) is that he is a cool customer that will accept problems and not go crying to the press or throwing his toys out to ensure he is sacked, i.e. he will sit and grind his way through game after game after game after game and the board likes that far more than a big tantrum thrower.
 
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