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~ OMT ~ TOTTENHAM HOTSPUR FC v Liverpool FC ~ THE CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FINAL ~ 2019 ~
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
This sort of thinking really bothers me (in the general, not specifically you).
Who supposes Liverpool will go into the game worrying about penalties? Im guessing nobody.
So why should we?
Its very "old Spurs", its natural for us fans, to just want to worry about the best worst case scenario rather than putting faith in up front that we can get the result.
I believe we have every chance of beating Liverpool. In normal time. But to do so we'll need Kane to start.
I prefer to think of him getting a hattrick and Liverpool crying ala-Ajax just after 90(odd) minutes than to think of having Kane fresh for half hour ET attrition and penalties.
We shouldnt even be worrying about penalties, we have plenty of players able to bury them IF it comes to it - but instead we should be focusing on beating Liverpool, and beating them well, in normal time.
When you put it that way, maybe we should start with a 4-2-3-1 with Dier and Sissoko as supporting midfielders to fend off the inevitable blitz from Liverpool, and hit them on the break with Son/Kane and Alli/Son-Eriksen-Moura. They will try to get the early goal, it's the way they do things, and like them we are lethal on counters. Then we could switch out Dier with an attacker when (or if) Liverpool start to tire. That's not bus parking. It's a one-off game, and I fear that if we try to out-football them from the start (like Ajax probably would have done) we will get beaten.
I have absolute faith in the ability of our lads, but it doesn't hurt to be a little tactical as well. Liverpool should not be underestimated, especially in a game like this, they are a fearsome team when they're up for it.
Edit: when I say absolute faith, it's faith that they can pull this off, not that they necessarily are better than their Liverpool counterpart. Their wide men - our fullbacks, to name an example.
Last edited:
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
I still prefer Eriksen - Sissoko in the two.
With Moura - Alli - Son in front of them, behind Kane.
Hows that for counter attacking brilliance?
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
https://www.fourfourtwo.com/feature...ague-final-actually-says-about-premier-league
The Premier League may be the richest in the world, but that’s not the only reason why the top teams are doing so well...
Money is a blessing and a curse for the Premier League. The size of the broadcasting contract may have created useful financial primacy, but it has also encouraged assumptions about English sides which do them a disservice.
Last week, Roberto Mancini was interviewed about Saturday’s Champions League final and, in among some laboured Brexit jokes, alluded to that wealth and offering it as a silver-bullet diagnosis for the all-English final between Liverpool and Tottenham.
It’s an argument with some obvious merits, but its holes are difficult to ignore, particularly as neither team is truly a member of the Premier League’s financial elite. Liverpool spent heavily in the summer of 2018, but those figures were exaggerated by the sale of Philippe Coutinho. Tottenham, their opponents, famously haven’t signed a player since January 2018. When considering Premier League opulence, these aren’t the first clubs that come to mind.
Which isn’t to say that they aren’t well nourished by the environment – it’s just that they are in a more subtle way. The combative nature of the division’s summit is encouraging sides to become increasingly flexible, and with five of the top six led by high priests of the modern game, the result is a blend of resources and acumen which the rest of Europe is finding it difficult to subdue.
Call it diversity, call it range; whatever the commodity, it was strongly in evidence during those two semi-finals.
Liverpool should not have overcome Barcelona at Anfield. It was a glorious night, but any dispassionate analysis would acknowledge Barça as an equal partner. They panicked. They clearly lost their nerve. Their position in the tie became weaker as it became more obvious that they had no strategic response to Liverpool’s assault. With no alternative to possession football, with no direct or security option to pivot towards, the pressure exerted on them grew, until their opponents eventually capitalised on a succession of mental errors.
It’s one of the hidden dangers that lurks in leagues with one or two dominant clubs. While those teams may lose games, their experience of suffering through that kind of scenario is scarce. It’s the same failing annually seen at Paris Saint-Germain and attributed to the competitive imbalance of Ligue 1, but it was just as relevant to Barcelona. In Catalonia, the defeat was doubly unforgivable because of what had happened in Rome 12 months before – but between those two games, what opportunity had Ernesto Valverde’s players had to apply what they’d learned from that experience?
What modern football seems to be breeding, with its wealth disparity and competitive imbalance, is almost a Tyson-in-Tokyo scenario, in which teams aren’t conditioned to play under anything other than their preferred conditions.
Liverpool’s progress emphasised that. That it occurred without Mohamed Salah and Roberto Firmino, two players thought to be fundamental to Jurgen Klopp’s style of play, also spoke to the importance of system over personnel. Moreover, it defeats the depiction of this Champions League final as being the consequence of player-based force: that game was a tactical success, a ringing endorsement of Klopp and his ability to exert pressure on an opponent’s weakest areas.
It also depended on a dexterity which, because of its eclectic nature and attritional style, the Premier League routinely stresses.
Tottenham’s own comeback probably made that point more vividly. Theirs was a different kind of success, albeit one enabled by similar weaknesses. Ajax spent their European season winning hearts and minds and their attractive, possession-based game was far too hot for Real Madrid and Juventus to handle. And, for much of that semi-final tie, it seemed like it would be for a depleted Tottenham, too.
But both legs exhibited the subliminal strengths and flaws of the two sides. Once Mauricio Pochettino had turned towards a more direct style, which emphasised quick progressions of the ball and was focused around Fernando Llorente, the resulting rise in the game’s speed appeared to unsettle Erik ten Hag’s artisans. It wasn’t anything more crafty than a gear change, the kind of temperament shift seen on Match of the Day every weekend, but the altered rhythm was an alien imposition upon Ajax and they lost their footing.
As they did in the second leg, too. In each match, at almost precisely the same stage, Ajax’s superiority began to recede; a jittery fear appeared in its place, resulting in turnovers and loose defending. It’s possible to attribute that to intangibles, but more likely it had its root in a lack of familiarity. Ajax not only averaged close to 60% possession in the 2018/19 Eredivisie, but rarely did they play games during which the conditions – either technical or athletic – were changed against their will. Like Barcelona, they are built to excel in a certain, narrow way. After all, having a transcendent ideology is the privilege of the dominant. Everyone else has to shift their shape, to adapt to compete.
The conditions within English football certainly prioritise that quality. Emirates Marketing Project may have a rigid way of playing, but domestically they are good enough not to be limited by that. Tellingly though, for a second straight year, they were eliminated from the Champions League by an English team – and by one of those sides for whom adaption is a prerequisite.
Affluence does make it easier to exploit these deficiencies. Premier League squads are generally more talented and almost always better paid. Crucially, though, those resources aren’t used just to perpetuate a single native strategy, but to equip a squad for a journey through a more varied landscape. Tottenham, like Liverpool, need a side which can beat Burnley and Arsenal, Watford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Under the incumbent group of generation-defining managers, that extra utility now seems more pronounced than ever.
The Premier League may be the richest in the world, but that’s not the only reason why the top teams are doing so well...
Money is a blessing and a curse for the Premier League. The size of the broadcasting contract may have created useful financial primacy, but it has also encouraged assumptions about English sides which do them a disservice.
Last week, Roberto Mancini was interviewed about Saturday’s Champions League final and, in among some laboured Brexit jokes, alluded to that wealth and offering it as a silver-bullet diagnosis for the all-English final between Liverpool and Tottenham.
It’s an argument with some obvious merits, but its holes are difficult to ignore, particularly as neither team is truly a member of the Premier League’s financial elite. Liverpool spent heavily in the summer of 2018, but those figures were exaggerated by the sale of Philippe Coutinho. Tottenham, their opponents, famously haven’t signed a player since January 2018. When considering Premier League opulence, these aren’t the first clubs that come to mind.
Which isn’t to say that they aren’t well nourished by the environment – it’s just that they are in a more subtle way. The combative nature of the division’s summit is encouraging sides to become increasingly flexible, and with five of the top six led by high priests of the modern game, the result is a blend of resources and acumen which the rest of Europe is finding it difficult to subdue.
Call it diversity, call it range; whatever the commodity, it was strongly in evidence during those two semi-finals.
Liverpool should not have overcome Barcelona at Anfield. It was a glorious night, but any dispassionate analysis would acknowledge Barça as an equal partner. They panicked. They clearly lost their nerve. Their position in the tie became weaker as it became more obvious that they had no strategic response to Liverpool’s assault. With no alternative to possession football, with no direct or security option to pivot towards, the pressure exerted on them grew, until their opponents eventually capitalised on a succession of mental errors.
It’s one of the hidden dangers that lurks in leagues with one or two dominant clubs. While those teams may lose games, their experience of suffering through that kind of scenario is scarce. It’s the same failing annually seen at Paris Saint-Germain and attributed to the competitive imbalance of Ligue 1, but it was just as relevant to Barcelona. In Catalonia, the defeat was doubly unforgivable because of what had happened in Rome 12 months before – but between those two games, what opportunity had Ernesto Valverde’s players had to apply what they’d learned from that experience?
What modern football seems to be breeding, with its wealth disparity and competitive imbalance, is almost a Tyson-in-Tokyo scenario, in which teams aren’t conditioned to play under anything other than their preferred conditions.
Liverpool’s progress emphasised that. That it occurred without Mohamed Salah and Roberto Firmino, two players thought to be fundamental to Jurgen Klopp’s style of play, also spoke to the importance of system over personnel. Moreover, it defeats the depiction of this Champions League final as being the consequence of player-based force: that game was a tactical success, a ringing endorsement of Klopp and his ability to exert pressure on an opponent’s weakest areas.
It also depended on a dexterity which, because of its eclectic nature and attritional style, the Premier League routinely stresses.
Tottenham’s own comeback probably made that point more vividly. Theirs was a different kind of success, albeit one enabled by similar weaknesses. Ajax spent their European season winning hearts and minds and their attractive, possession-based game was far too hot for Real Madrid and Juventus to handle. And, for much of that semi-final tie, it seemed like it would be for a depleted Tottenham, too.
But both legs exhibited the subliminal strengths and flaws of the two sides. Once Mauricio Pochettino had turned towards a more direct style, which emphasised quick progressions of the ball and was focused around Fernando Llorente, the resulting rise in the game’s speed appeared to unsettle Erik ten Hag’s artisans. It wasn’t anything more crafty than a gear change, the kind of temperament shift seen on Match of the Day every weekend, but the altered rhythm was an alien imposition upon Ajax and they lost their footing.
As they did in the second leg, too. In each match, at almost precisely the same stage, Ajax’s superiority began to recede; a jittery fear appeared in its place, resulting in turnovers and loose defending. It’s possible to attribute that to intangibles, but more likely it had its root in a lack of familiarity. Ajax not only averaged close to 60% possession in the 2018/19 Eredivisie, but rarely did they play games during which the conditions – either technical or athletic – were changed against their will. Like Barcelona, they are built to excel in a certain, narrow way. After all, having a transcendent ideology is the privilege of the dominant. Everyone else has to shift their shape, to adapt to compete.
The conditions within English football certainly prioritise that quality. Emirates Marketing Project may have a rigid way of playing, but domestically they are good enough not to be limited by that. Tellingly though, for a second straight year, they were eliminated from the Champions League by an English team – and by one of those sides for whom adaption is a prerequisite.
Affluence does make it easier to exploit these deficiencies. Premier League squads are generally more talented and almost always better paid. Crucially, though, those resources aren’t used just to perpetuate a single native strategy, but to equip a squad for a journey through a more varied landscape. Tottenham, like Liverpool, need a side which can beat Burnley and Arsenal, Watford and Saudi Sportswashing Machine. Under the incumbent group of generation-defining managers, that extra utility now seems more pronounced than ever.
That's an attacking lineup that would make Ossie proud! I don't mean to brick in anyone's bed and it may well be unwarranted, but I don't have full confidence in Eriksen in such a defending role. And it has nothing to do with his at times perceived reluctance to get "stuck in" (which I think he's not afraid to do when needed and in form).
I can see the argument that Dier is rusty and not as quick (and exact) in his passing as he used to be, but I still think he will fill the defensive role better. I believe they will try to overload our defence and we cannot match them for pace, so we have to commit bodies. We also MUST support our flanks, so Dier's ability to fall back into central defence is more reliable than both Eriksen's and Sissoko's. IMO of course, but I don't think that's a very controversial opinion.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Eriksen and Alli work very very hard through the centre. If Sissoko is given a more holding/DM remit (which he is very capable of) then Ive no issue with Eriksen in there in a defensive capacity.
This also means a few things:
- We get Son AND Moura on the field, gives their full backs plenty to think about and options for us to get in behind. This means either their fullback threat is nullified trying to look after those two, or Son and Moura get the freedom to really hurt Liverpool.
- We get Alli in his preferred position just off of Kane (when attacking), which could be key to getting the best out of both of them. Lets be honest, neither have really shone this season and they could use getting the old relationship back on track. Both are matchwinners and big game players too, so I would want them given the best chance to perform.
- We get Eriksen with his foot on the ball at moments when he is the exact person you want in possession. He will see more of the ball there than anywhere else, and with those 4 ahead of him he will have nothing but options when he gets it. He could put in a masterclass performance from that position given the way we would be set up.
Its not actually that Ossie-like. While Eriksen isnt a tackler as such, he has the engine to cover ground, press, intercept, chaperone players away etc. When he has played deep before he has done well and never left the impression he isnt capable.
Sissokos best performance for us, IMO, was against Chelsea when he played a strict destroyer/dm role. He was superb on the day and gave us a real platform for the win. I think he can do the same against Liverpool.
Added benefit of Son and Moura starting is that our FBs dont have to get so high up the field, which means we can actually be more solid in defensive shape.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
He is literally magic. He stood on stage in a tuxedo and pulled a live badger from his top hat. Then took out a newspaper, rolled it up and custard came flowing out of the bottom.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
I don't think those four attacking players work well as a unit, all very good and bring something to the game, but in the few times I've seen them play together I don't think it's worked, I may be wrong.
Daisuk
Nayim
Please, please, please, dear footballing gods, let there be justice in this world for once and let us smash those smug scouser clams on Saturday. It would mean so much to so many. I can't even imagine. I just hope our boys turn up and give it their all. I'm sort of quietly trying to prepare for defeat and say to myself "life will just go on as usual" if we lose, which of course it will, but a win, ah, there will just be cascades of glory glory glory for years and years to come, and can you imagine the night if we win it? It would be the most glorious of all. Please, let us have this. This once. We've endured the 90's with our ginger peles and Stuart nethercotts, we're due a massive chunk of glory. Make us proud, boys.
90291Spur
Paul Walsh
The footballing gods have got us here - our one point in 3 games, all those last winners, posts hit, VAR decisions and the tiny moments that lead to victory. I am confident they will keep smiling on us.
Caitano
Helder Postiga
Spurs first two games in champions league
18 September 2018
Inter
2-1
Tottenham
03 October 2018
Tottenham
2-4
Barcelona
On 27 October 2018, on his 61st birthday, Hoddle decides to take matters into in his own hands and ask GHod personally for a birthday gift.
This is the only reason I can fathom why we are in the final
18 September 2018
Inter
2-1
Tottenham
03 October 2018
Tottenham
2-4
Barcelona
On 27 October 2018, on his 61st birthday, Hoddle decides to take matters into in his own hands and ask GHod personally for a birthday gift.
This is the only reason I can fathom why we are in the final
The Ossie bit was kind of tongue in cheek, but we'd field what I would call 5 attacking players against a team who's all about attack, and sprinting out of the blocks. I see your point and the wish to field all our best players, but in my opinion, it wouldn't be our best team for the task. I fear that we would concede early, and chase for 80+ minutes. That would be playing it straight into the hands of a setup like Liverpool. That is their best bet, and I would really, really like to avoid that. There's a 99% chance I remember inforrectly, but I cannot recall that we ever started all those players at the same time. Not sure this is the right time to do it. But if Poch thinks so, I say go for it.
Daisuk
Nayim
Yeah, I know, it seems like the stars are aligned, but can reality really be this good? I won't believe it before I see it.
milo
Jack L. Jones
We need someone to receive the ball from defence. Sissoko can't do it, Wanyama doesn't have the mobility, which leaves Winks, Dier or Eriksen.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Possibly fair. Im looking it as our best bet to play on the counter and I cant think of a better set up for that. I think we can box clever and pick them off.
I dont think we ever have (have we been able to?) and I certainly dont think Poch will be so bold - and I do think THAT will actually play into their hands.
If I were to criticise Poch for one thing, it would be a tendency to play it safe. I expect him to line up more like:
.........Sissoko......Dier
Eriksen......Alli..........Son
................Kane
And to be honest, that conservatism could be what gives Liverpool the impetus.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Amen brother.