*** OMT Spurs vs West London Defence League

[metalgear]

Listen to his interviews. He's said it will take time to close the gap. He's also said that we can't do it this window and it would be "foolish" for the club to just spend money. As we can't afford any more transfer mistakes.

Seems like he is in for the long haul. He said months ago it might take years.

Yes, I did and I can imagine the pressure Conte puts himself under by being Spurs coach and getting the boys to believe that they can beat Chelsea. Conversely, Tuchel must be losing slepp with the result considering the quality he has at his disposal. I think if we win at WHL Tuchel will have a mental breakdown.


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[metalgear]

Lenglet.

Yes I have high hopes for him. Looked comfortable in attack in the first game. Though it would consequently expose Dier more and by now every one knows about his vulnerability in a back 2...but that's for another thread.

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[afsoc4life]

Last time we had a player who pushed the boundaries was Dele. But Poch had a word with him and made sure he went back to being your typical timid Spurs player.

I am hoping this is tongue in cheek. Pochettino is not responsible for Dele's demise.

 

[ShipOfTheseus]

Decline and demise are not synonymous, you know.

 

[thfcsteff]

But we both have the same number of players on the pitch. If they overload in some areas they should be vulnerable in others. I didn't see that. Was like 12 v 11, they had us covered everywhere.

I've said this a few times here but worth highlighting again. The issue with 3 at the back is 7 outfield players vs their 2 and 8. 3 at the back works when the CBs can contribute more than usual.

If we had peak Toby yesterday pinging balls behind their back two and Son asking questions, they would not be allowed to be as confident with pressing in numbers.

So above average CBs is not good enough in a back three. We desperately need a CB with excellent vision and distribution ability to break and contain the press.



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Let's put some things out there.

1) We won once at Stamford Bridge when we had Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

2) We are off the back of a very impressive unbeaten run of games which started towards the end of last season.

3) In 2022 we are the third best team in the country behind Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

I think it is fair to say that 3 at the back has worked very well for Conte's Spurs.

One more thing about Sunday - we did miss two clear chances (Sess and Kane). Kane's in particular was glaring. Blaming our CBs for not winning this game is, IMO, odd. The truth is our WBs did not have the necessary quality to make moments count, and a couple of our players simply didn't have great games.

 

[glasgowspur]

Let's put some things out there.

1) We won once at Stamford Bridge when we had Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

2) We are off the back of a very impressive unbeaten run of games which started towards the end of last season.

3) In 2022 we are the third best team in the country behind Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

I think it is fair to say that 3 at the back has worked very well for Conte's Spurs.

One more thing about Sunday - we did miss two clear chances (Sess and Kane). Kane's in particular was glaring. Blaming our CBs for not winning this game is, IMO, odd. The truth is our WBs did not have the necessary quality to make moments count, and a couple of our players simply didn't have great games.

Thaank you for including jan, who imo was the better defender and distributor of the ball but is overlooked because of Toby Hollywood passes.

 

[thfcsteff]

Thaank you for including jan, who imo was the better defender and distributor of the ball but is overlooked because of Toby Hollywood passes.

Rolls Royce in many ways.

 

[braineclipse]

Let's put some things out there.

1) We won once at Stamford Bridge when we had Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

2) We are off the back of a very impressive unbeaten run of games which started towards the end of last season.

3) In 2022 we are the third best team in the country behind Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

I think it is fair to say that 3 at the back has worked very well for Conte's Spurs.

One more thing about Sunday - we did miss two clear chances (Sess and Kane). Kane's in particular was glaring. Blaming our CBs for not winning this game is, IMO, odd. The truth is our WBs did not have the necessary quality to make moments count, and a couple of our players simply didn't have great games.

Fully agreed.

We struggled against high pressing with Alderweireld in the team too.

I know xG for a single game isn't super reliable, but it's the closest we have for quantifying chances. At 60 minutes, when we made the change to open up the game there was very little in it from a xG perspective. IMO that passes the eye test too. They dominated possession and territory, but didn't really create a lot.

We defended really well. And they were set up to dominate possession and territory, arguably at the cost of chance creation.

We were second best, but it wasn't a disaster. Significantly better than last season.

If we could have launched a handful of quality counter attacks more or play through pressure pseudo counter attacks in that opening hour I would have been happy with our performance.

 

[Lilbaz]

Let's put some things out there.

1) We won once at Stamford Bridge when we had Alderweireld and Vertonghen.

2) We are off the back of a very impressive unbeaten run of games which started towards the end of last season.

3) In 2022 we are the third best team in the country behind Emirates Marketing Project and Liverpool.

I think it is fair to say that 3 at the back has worked very well for Conte's Spurs.

One more thing about Sunday - we did miss two clear chances (Sess and Kane). Kane's in particular was glaring. Blaming our CBs for not winning this game is, IMO, odd. The truth is our WBs did not have the necessary quality to make moments count, and a couple of our players simply didn't have great games.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine is 3rd best on a points per game basis. We've just played more league games in 2022 than other teams.

 

[thfcsteff]

Saudi Sportswashing Outpost is 3rd best on a points per game basis. We've just played more league games in 2022 than other teams.

I saw that table. The one I used as reference has is third with more points but, as you said, 2 more games too. No guarantee Newcash would win those.

 

[alekaras]

It's layer quality and also tactics. We don't actually try to dominate possession. Sure if we play a team we are clearly technically superior to we will have the lion's share of the ball but it's almost by default.

We play 2 in midfield everybody else plays with a 3. Even if we have comparable quality in terms of technique, composure, passing range etc (we don't) the other top teams simply outnumber us in the middle of the park. We play a different game, against some opposition it works very well. Liverpool and City games being an example but Chels were set up tactically to nullify us and Conte didn't really have a plan for that.

I'd love to see more technical CMs in the vein of Bentancur rather than PEH but Conte seems to really trust PEH so I don't know if we will get that fully competent CM until someone like Sarr matures or we bring someone else in.

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That "we're outnumbered in midfield" is something I don't understand. It's not like the other team is playing with an extra player. If we're outnumbered in one area, then we're outnumbering the opposition in another area. If we take advantage of that, then the opposition will have to adapt, this evening things out

Too simplistic?

 

[Lilbaz]

That "we're outnumbered in midfield" is something I don't understand. It's not like the other team is playing with an extra player. If we're outnumbered in one area, then we're outnumbering the opposition in another area. If we take advantage of that, then the opposition will have to adapt, this evening things out

Too simplistic?

Problem is our passing was terrible first half so we kept losing the ball. Not tactical, we just seemed panicky.

 

[Kandi1977]

Thaank you for including jan, who imo was the better defender and distributor of the ball but is overlooked because of Toby Hollywood passes.

Like that assist for Son's Puskas award. Sublime!

 

[FatBloke]

But we both have the same number of players on the pitch. If they overload in some areas they should be vulnerable in others. I didn't see that. Was like 12 v 11, they had us covered everywhere.

I've said this a few times here but worth highlighting again. The issue with 3 at the back is 7 outfield players vs their 2 and 8. 3 at the back works when the CBs can contribute more than usual.

If we had peak Toby yesterday pinging balls behind their back two and Son asking questions, they would not be allowed to be as confident with pressing in numbers.

So above average CBs is not good enough in a back three. We desperately need a CB with excellent vision and distribution ability to break and contain the press.

Hence my second reason -- Ngolo Kante

How many times have managers complained that playing against him is like the opposition having an extra midfielder?

Ageing world class players aside, it's also the system. It's a gross over-simplification of course, but there is a school of thought that says that, if you win midfield, you win the game. And you could do this by simply overloading the central midfield -- there's no point in the other team having an extra man in defence, attack or on the wings if they can't get the ball to them.

In my opinion, that's what happened. We essentially had Hojbjerg and Bentancur, with a little help from Romero, Kulu and Kane. Chelsea had Kante and Jorginho with A LOT of help from Mount and some help from Havertz and James. In theory, that would give us more space on our wings...but Chelsea's WBs managed to snaffle that out, with help from a very good midfield/forward press.

In fact, Football365 have done a piece this morning that explains it all far better than I could. A "box midfield" (2 in front of 2) that they've previously used against Barcelona, no less!
https://www.football365.com/news/th...ranscend-obvious-faults-chelsea-squad-opinion

Rather than focussing on the shortcomings of our players, perhaps we should put our hands up and acknowledge that (1) Tuchel won the tactical battle, and (2) Chelsea have some very good players, some of whom had very good games.

What I really liked was Conte using subs to change our formation which, coupled with Kante's injury, brought us back in the game. Tuchel then reacted, taking advantage of our new shape, before Conte rolled the dice again and went for it. It was an incredibly dynamic game tactically. It could well have ended up with a crushing 4-1 defeat, but that doesn't get you any fewer points than going down 2-1. And of course, we've finally got quality on the bench that can make that difference.

 

[Lilbaz]

Hence my second reason -- Ngolo Kante

How many times have managers complained that playing against him is like the opposition having an extra midfielder?

Ageing world class players aside, it's also the system. It's a gross over-simplification of course, but there is a school of thought that says that, if you win midfield, you win the game. And you could do this by simply overloading the central midfield -- there's no point in the other team having an extra man in defence, attack or on the wings if they can't get the ball to them.

In my opinion, that's what happened. We essentially had Hojbjerg and Bentancur, with a little help from Romero, Kulu and Kane. Chelsea had Kante and Jorginho with A LOT of help from Mount and some help from Havertz and James. In theory, that would give us more space on our wings...but Chelsea's WBs managed to snaffle that out, with help from a very good midfield/forward press.

In fact, Football365 have done a piece this morning that explains it all far better than I could. A "box midfield" (2 in front of 2) that they've previously used against Barcelona, no less!
https://www.football365.com/news/th...ranscend-obvious-faults-chelsea-squad-opinion

Rather than focussing on the shortcomings of our players, perhaps we should put our hands up and acknowledge that (1) Tuchel won the tactical battle, (2) Chelsea have some very good players, some of whom had very good games.

What I really liked was Conte using subs to change our formation which, coupled with Kante's injury, brought us back in the game. Tuchel then reacted, taking advantage of our new shape, before Conte rolled the dice again and went for it. It was an incredibly dynamic game tactically. It could well have ended up with a crushing 4-1 defeat, but that doesn't get you any fewer points than going down 2-1. And of course, we've finally got quality on the bench that can make that difference.

We had more shots on target than them by the end. Partly due to bad finishing by them admittedly.

 

[spanishspur]

My son made a very good point this morning, we brought on Perisic, Richarlison and Bissouma, would Reguilon, Bergwijn and Winks have had the same impact.
Probably not!

 

[FatBloke]

We had more shots on target than them by the end. Partly due to bad finishing by them admittedly.

Quite. Never mind shots on target -- they should have had more actual goals too. I'd rank that shot that Sterling slashed wide after dancing around the 6yd box as a good chance, never mind the one that Havertz had later in the game. Both counted as shots off target, of course.

 

[Jordinho]

 

[Bishop]

But we looked miles better attack wise
Don’t forget the game was stretched so it’s natural for the defence to look dodgy
Royal looked his best all game in that set up. Davies and Dier struggled

I would honestly prefer 4 at the back with an extra midfielder but I accept that is not the way Conte will setup. Davies and Dier looked lost in the 4 and it does seem they need the added protection a back 5 gives them or maybe in a 4 we need a proper DM which neither Bentancur or PEH are? [emoji3]

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[Bedfordspurs]

I would honestly prefer 4 at the back with an extra midfielder but I accept that is not the way Conte will setup. Davies and Dier looked lost in the 4 and it does seem they need the added protection a back 5 gives them or maybe in a 4 we need a proper which neither Bentancur or PEH are? [emoji3]

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I think the way we have trained in the last 9 months and been to get them all used to a 3
We won’t play a 4 much at all under conte so it’s normal for players to look out of place in a different system