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***OMT - Spurs vs Liverpool***

Spur of the moment said:
Excellent post.

But I'm not so sure it's solely down to Poch that we never adapt our attacking approach away to the top teams. I sense it's also Levy's influence in the background.

If you remember the first thing he did when Enic took over was to sack the negative George Graham. Then there was the fall-out with Santini over his decision to park the bus in the notorious 0-0 at Stamford Bridge that led directly to the Frenchman's resignation.

We have emblazened all around our stadium phrases like To Dare is to Do and The Game is about Glory.

So I suspect Levy might also have something to do with it.
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Hahahahaha levy gets the blame lmao

Poch's learning on the job and I'm convinced next season we'll set up very different away to the top teams.

Having said that, our single biggest issue in these big away games where we have been poor with the exception of arsenal away and first half at chelsea, has been the alarming frequency of passing the ball to the opposition.

As I've touched on before, doing this is incredibly detrimental to our chances of getting a positive result and it's the players and no one else who deserves severe criticism for constantly passing the ball to the opposing team.
 
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anfon said:
The formation with which we best walked throughout the season is 3 5 2 without doubts (wba, watford, chelsea etc), it does not matter that we do not have the players necessary to carry it out, it is impossible to try to leave playing from the bottom without Without rose and verth, today wanyama had a very poor match but that is partly because when a team presses as high as today liverpool, and the circuits of play are cut, son, delle and eriksen are far away from the game, generating Lack of people from half to back, a team cut and long, to play with four defenders against teams that press so high we need more fight in the middle, this team fights very well when it can stand in rival field, but it complicates when not Has circuits of game and therefore is cut, today in the first time could have been a catastrophe.
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We also played 3 5 2 against city away and were getting destroyed.
 
Cochise said:
This whole brick about Mané going to them only after we passed due to wage demands kind of shows where we are. We can't afford to spend the money to get ready made upgrades yet in either wages or price tags. I guess it's gutting, because we have good players that just need the right reinforcements to push on.

I honestly didn't expect us to get anything today, but the loss still hurts. This is gonna kick start their form for the rest of the season whilst we are likely going to stumble onwards and doggedly hold on to the top 4 until the last 3 weeks.
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There will be no stumbling.

Come stoke we should have everyone fit and as long as it stays that way and we are economical with the Europa league, then with our run in we should win all our remaining games bar a couple of draws.

We by far look our best when we have wing backs in full flow and this 352 system really frees both Eriksen and Dele.

Next season when surely the injury gods will look kindly upon us, coupled with getting Sissoko and possibly Janssen out (and replacing certainly the former with a footballer) we'll have a great chance, save the impact of no WHL of course.
 
I'd like to see KWP make his debut on Thursday in a left wing back role.

A back three of CCV, Wimmer and Davies.

Is Davies a long term understudy to Rose given he has little pace?

Time to blood KWP for me.
 
Really disappointed with the defeat but not at all surprised. We have been so poor in away matches this season that this defeat was always coming. In addition to that, we have a poor record at Liverpool and we need a much better team than this to overcome it. This match shows yet again our lack of a squad depth. Fringe players like Dier and Davies are too error-prone to help us win the league title. We were outplayed so badly that we were fortunate not to get beaten by a bigger score.

All our key players were poor again in this match. Kane and Alli were missing for most of the match. Kane was never in the game while Alli wasted a header like the one he scored against Chelsea. Son played better but it was unforgivable the way he wasted the one-on-one chance in the first half. He had all the time in the world to dribble past the goalie but chose to shoot from a tight angle which was saved. Had Son scored that, it could have put pressure on Liverpool. That was our only real chance for the whole match.

I think we lost this match in midfield. Wanyama and Dembele just got outplayed by Liverpool's midfield. Wanyama did too many mistakes. In fact, it was Wanyama's mistake which led to their first goal. Eriksen was poor as well but not sure it was right to replace him with the inexperienced Winks. It was also annoying to see Eriksen wasting yet another freekick. Makes you wonder if Eriksen will ever score from a free kick for us again !

We badly missed Vertonghen and Rose in defence. Have never been convinced by Dier in defence and this match only proves it. Dier was too error-prone and was directly at fault for their second goal. Similiarly, Davies is not very reliable in defence as he was partly at fault for both the goals. Maybe Lloris and Alderweireld too should have reacted faster for their second goal. Felt Lloris could have pushed the ball behind instead of forward for their second goal.

Our league title chance is virtually over after this defeat. Just can't see us winning all the remaining matches or Chelsea to lose at least 4 matches now. We could have had a much better chance to win the league title if Pochettino had buy more quality players during both the transfer windows. Instead, now we have a real fight to stay in the top 4 race !
 
Spur of the moment said:
Excellent post.

But I'm not so sure it's solely down to Poch that we never adapt our attacking approach away to the top teams. I sense it's also Levy's influence in the background.

If you remember the first thing he did when Enic took over was to sack the negative George Graham. Then there was the fall-out with Santini over his decision to park the bus in the notorious 0-0 at Stamford Bridge that led directly to the Frenchman's resignation.

We have emblazened all around our stadium phrases like To Dare is to Do and The Game is about Glory.

So I suspect Levy might also have something to do with it.
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Hmm. Not so sure. I don't think anyone was really asking for a park-the-bus-and-don't-venture-out-of-our-half game plan. But equally most were hoping we would not play a suicidily high line. Adapting one game to deal with a specific style of play by the opposition is not negative, it's pragmatic. And even if we had parked the bus, got a point (or three) and it kept us 2nd and maintaining just a bit of pressure on Chelsea, I can't see Levy losing too much sleep over it.

I do agree as well with @afsoc4life and others that some of our players have to hold up their hands for yesterday. Disappointing from Wanyama and Dier especially. Even Toby looked shaky (although maybe that's because he was trying to hold everything together). Wanyama's been due a drop off, it's just a shame it had to be yesterday when we so needed that midfield control.
Davies is a decent defender. He's no Danny Rose, of course, but even Danny Rose would have struggled yesterday without any support in front of him, the difference being his pace may just have helped catch Mane.
I love Dier (and he loves me) but he looked incredibly uncomfortable in his role yesterday. Hid dallying on the ball which led to their second was criminal.
If only Son had done better with that one on one with Mignolet, it could all have been very different.
Equally, it could all have been very different and we could have lost 5-0.
I think that's what hurts the most - that I feel pleased it was only 2-0.
 
AjaxDeSuperYids said:
I'd like to see KWP make his debut on Thursday in a left wing back role.

A back three of CCV, Wimmer and Davies.

Is Davies a long term understudy to Rose given he has little pace?

Time to blood KWP for me.
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I definitely would not want to see KWP make his debut in a European game away from home (or not even at home, come to that, unless we were so comfortably ahead).

Also, from what I have read from those who follow our youth football, whilst KWP has the promise to be a versatile player, he would need to be starting games on the right, not the left. Happy to be corrected on that by those who know, but I'm pretty sure that's what I have seen.
 
nayenezgani said:
Parking the bus against Liverpool in the first half would have been even more suicidal than the tactic of 'not trying' that we employed instead.
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"'not trying'" that is bloody ridiculous. That is a typical stupid off the cuff comment that drives me mad from so called football fans.
There were many reasons for our defeat yesterday but 'not trying' is just banal.
 
the dza said:
In my opinion, when teams of equal or more ability than us want to press us high, we struggle because we refuse to adapt our game plan and we don't have good enough technical players to handle it; namely, Dier, Lloris and Wanyama -- all pretty poor in possession when under constant pressure/given few passing options by opposition aggressive pressing.

Opposition will be more aggressive away from home, more so when they are equal/better teams.

The players I mentioned are mostly good for us and an asset. The way we play is perfect for most of our games, as we are better than most opposition we face. For away games against the best sides, Poch need to adapt the tactics and be more pragmatic. We'll still lose our share of these tough away games, but it's not good enough to do what we did today, namely suicidal football. We got lucky against City, we didn't get that today, but the overall game was similar.

I love Poch, but this performance is on him. He is asking players like Lloris, Dier, Wanyama and Davies to handle an aggressive high press with the aplomb of Guardiola's Barca. That's not going to happen and I don't blame those players, I blame the way they were asked to play today.

4 words from Poch would have seen an improvement -- sit deep, go direct.
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Couldn't agree more. Lloris is poor in possession when he is under no pressure at all let alone when teams press us.

I believe you posted recently that we are a less rich version of Arsenal? I.e. good in between but can't handle the pressure when it really comes down to it. Again, 100% agree. I think people that believe we can win the league need to get a little perspective, whenever we've had the chance to go top with a win, we usually lose or draw. I have no idea how Poch changes it, I don't think we currently have what it takes to take us to the next level, whatever that missing piece may be. Still think we need a top drawer creative player like Reus for example or someone similar but wages are going to restrict us until the stadium is paid off.

One more point re us being similar to Arsenal, Wenger has more often than not showed a stubbornness in refusing to adapt his game plan for the oppositon. If you're reading this Poch, huge mistake if you're following that example!
 
StephenH said:
"'not trying'" that is bloody ridiculous. That is a typical stupid off the cuff comment that drives me mad from so called football fans.
There were many reasons for our defeat yesterday but 'not trying' is just banal.
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Well we may have been watching a different match, but for the first 20 minutes I think our effort was non-existent..

The effort improved a heap for the rest of the match, especially in the second half, but we didn't turn up for the opening exchanges. If you didnt see that, I don't know what you were watching.
 
indospurs said:
pulled our pants down ?? we gave them a two goal lead, Lloris was feeling generous that day ! They still blew the lead.

We don't have a mental weakness v top teams, coz we are a top team. We just lack that Killer Blow, each and every time - but I'msure, our Lads will all be up for this, and Poch deft will be too.
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The game should have finished at least 6 or 7-2. The scoreline in no way whatsoever reflected how the game went.

What's Poch record against the top 6 away from home now?
 
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Spur of the moment said:
Excellent post.

But I'm not so sure it's solely down to Poch that we never adapt our attacking approach away to the top teams. I sense it's also Levy's influence in the background.

If you remember the first thing he did when Enic took over was to sack the negative George Graham. Then there was the fall-out with Santini over his decision to park the bus in the notorious 0-0 at Stamford Bridge that led directly to the Frenchman's resignation.

We have emblazened all around our stadium phrases like To Dare is to Do and The Game is about Glory.

So I suspect Levy might also have something to do with it.
Click to expand...

Not sure I buy that at all. Santini walked and everything points to disagreements with Arnesen as the cause. There was no fall out over that Chelsea game that I'm aware of. At that stage we were doing well. It was losing to Fulham fairly abjectly away and losing 2-1 to Bolton at home that started to ring the alarm bells with Santini. The 0-0 with Chelsea was great, especially Atouba's epic substitution.

I'm a bit disappointed that Poch said he wasn't angry yesterday. He should be fuming that the players seemed sluggish from the start and with things like Wanyama's wastefulness in possession, Dier's dingdonging about on the ball and Son not protecting Davies to name but a few. Yesterday was poor all round from us (Hugo excepted).
 
Jurgen the German said:
Couldn't agree more. Lloris is poor in possession when he is under no pressure at all let alone when teams press us.
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These are the possession stats for Premier League goalkeepers

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http://www.squawka.com/football-pla...17#season#1#all-matches#possession#desc#total
 
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nayenezgani said:
Well we may have been watching a different match, but for the first 20 minutes I think our effort was non-existent..

The effort improved a heap for the rest of the match, especially in the second half, but we didn't turn up for the opening exchanges. If you didnt see that, I don't know what you were watching.
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I saw a team overrun by a faster paced attack and two replacement defenders caught cold by not being in the 'wide awake club'. Liverpool's (grrr) excellent opening blew us away and we never recovered. It was a lack of application rather than effort.
 
If poch learnt a few things about his players then i will accept this as part of the learning process and evolution of the team.
We really miss an in field leader, Hugo is great but it's difficult for a keeper. Harry tried to lead by example but was as isolated ad harry.
Someone who can control the tempo when we don't have ball. We fell into the same trap last night that we did against city, allowed ourselves and the ref to be bullied.
We are to nice and naive, someone needs to stand up and start taking control.
 
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