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*** OMT Spurs v Fiorentina 1st leg ***

billyiddo said:
Well then my question is how do you want us to focus on the League over the Europa League if not in the way i describe in my previous post?

I want us to do well in both, i believe we can do well in both and i think that we need to take each round of the EL as it comes. Right now, the important game is the cup final next Sunday - which means we want to try and make sure the away leg to Fiorentina has as less impact as possible, which means fielding a strong team tomorrow in the home leg and hoping we do enough that we can finish the tie off in 90 minutes in Italy.


The 'ultimate goal' is to win trophies, surely?
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The ultimate goal is to win trophies, so for this year we should focus on the one that's winnable: League Cup. But to do that, we'll need to sacrifice something. I know where you're coming from and I don't disagree: we should try to win everything we're in. But we also have to be realistic. Our style of play takes a toll on our players and we don't have the depth to rotate like-for-like. We have maybe 14-15 players that play the way Poch wants and the rest are crap. Which means that in 6-7 positions, there really is no substitute. How can we compete in all comps when we're so thin? So we need to prioritize. And the reason I'm for prioritizing league over EL is because it gives us the best chance to make CL. Once we make CL, then we can attract the players we want (and not what's left over) and start building the team that will be able to compete in all comps.
 
alekaras said:
The ultimate goal is to win trophies, so for this year we should focus on the one that's winnable: League Cup. But to do that, we'll need to sacrifice something. I know where you're coming from and I don't disagree: we should try to win everything we're in. But we also have to be realistic. Our style of play takes a toll on our players and we don't have the depth to rotate like-for-like. We have maybe 14-15 players that play the way Poch wants and the rest are crap. Which means that in 6-7 positions, there really is no substitute. How can we compete in all comps when we're so thin? So we need to prioritize. And the reason I'm for prioritizing league over EL is because it gives us the best chance to make CL. Once we make CL, then we can attract the players we want (and not what's left over) and start building the team that will be able to compete in all comps.
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i understand you want to prioritize the league over the Europa but you haven't really explained how you would do that - i asked JtG if he'd rest players in both Fiorentina legs to make sure we are in the best position to get 3 points from the West Ham game, at which point you came in and said that isn't what he meant - what do you think we should do and how would you go about prioritizing one competition over the other?
 
billyiddo said:
^ How would you suggest we prioritse the league ove the EL at this point? Field a weakened team in both EL ties against Fiorentina so we have the best chance of getting 3 points against West Ham?
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No. Play a full strength team for Fiorentina at home then the same for West Ham on Sunday. We've had 10 days off so if we can't handle that then we don't deserve to win both games.

Rest players for the 2nd leg as the LC final is just 3 days later.
 
billyiddo said:
Well then my question is how do you want us to focus on the League over the Europa League if not in the way i describe in my previous post?

I want us to do well in both, i believe we can do well in both and i think that we need to take each round of the EL as it comes. Right now, the important game is the cup final next Sunday - which means we want to try and make sure the away leg to Fiorentina has as less impact as possible, which means fielding a strong team tomorrow in the home leg and hoping we do enough that we can finish the tie off in 90 minutes in Italy.


The 'ultimate goal' is to win trophies, surely?
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In principle the goal is to win trophies I don't disagree.

But I do agree with Alekeras. Our squad is very thin and we need to make sure the likes of Eriksen, Kane, Bentaleb, Mason and co do not suffer burnout, sorry for the cliche. I would prioritise the league when and if we can progress the the quarters of the EL or beyond as we routinely get to the last 16/quarters then get knocked out, the double whammy is our league form tends to suffer also. Whilst some may argue they are not linked, I am inclined to think the number of games in the EL does take its toll on us.

It is partly the FA's fault also as they generally do not do not enough to help the English teams in Europe. I would suggest Monday games rather than Sundays for a start.

The way the table looks, I believe the league represents a better chance of CL football but I accept this could change.
 
Jurgen the German said:
In principle the goal is to win trophies I don't disagree.

But I do agree with Alekeras. Our squad is very thin and we need to make sure the likes of Eriksen, Kane, Bentaleb, Mason and co do not suffer burnout, sorry for the cliche. I would prioritise the league when and if we can progress the the quarters of the EL or beyond as we routinely get to the last 16/quarters then get knocked out, the double whammy is our league form tends to suffer also. Whilst some may argue they are not linked, I am inclined to think the number of games in the EL does take its toll on us.

It is partly the FA's fault also as they generally do not do not enough to help the English teams in Europe. I would suggest Monday games rather than Sundays for a start.

The way the table looks, I believe the league represents a better chance of CL football but I accept this could change.
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im still uncertain as to how you plan on prioritizing the league over the EL -

you're happy to field a strong team in the upcoming game against Fiorentina and then rest the players which need resting ahead of the final of the league cup in the away leg?

we'd then have one more round of the EL before we reach the quarters where you would be happly for us to start taking the competition seriously (if i read your post above correctly) doesn't really sound like you're putting the league first to me
 
billyiddo said:
so you're telling me you'd pay no thought whatsoever to the League Cup final when choosing the team/squad for Fiorentina away?
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I did not say that, but the next game is what we should concentrate on and not one 4 games down the line. Winning the next game is what winners do.
 
billyiddo said:
im still uncertain as to how you plan on prioritizing the league over the EL -

you're happy to field a strong team in the upcoming game against Fiorentina and then rest the players which need resting ahead of the final of the league cup in the away leg?

we'd then have one more round of the EL before we reach the quarters where you would be happly for us to start taking the competition seriously (if i read your post above correctly) doesn't really sound like you're putting the league first to me
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Basically I'd rest some players in the last 16 games if we get that far and perhaps in the quarters too.
 
parklane1 said:
I did not say that, but the next game is what we should concentrate on and not one 4 games down the line. Winning the next game is what winners do.
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i think that is what that quote is implying - i think winners have the foresight to plan out and manage their squad so they don't have to throw all their eggs in to one basket (ie the next game coming)
 
billyiddo said:
i think that is what that quote is implying - i think winners have the foresight to plan out and manage their squad so they don't have to throw all their eggs in to one basket (ie the next game coming)
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Well we will have to agree to disagree, all games are important and a winning mentality is the difference between winners and losers.
 
Jurgen the German said:
Basically I'd rest some players in the last 16 games if we get that far and perhaps in the quarters too.
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it depends on the circumstance. from my perspective, going in to March, we are competing for 4th in the league and the Europa League - we need to manage the squad so we can do as best we can in both, that may require we rest players in the EL for a league game or it may require us resting players in the league.

parklane1 said:
Well we will have to agree to disagree, all games are important and a winning mentality is the difference between winners and losers.
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all games are important, which is precisely why im advocating managing the squad to get the best possible outcome on all fronts! :D (which i don't think you'd get by simply picking your best XI for every game)
 
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billyiddo said:
it depends on the circumstance. from my perspective, going in to March, we are competing for 4th in the league and the Europa League - we need to manage the squad so we can do as best we can in both, that may recall we rest players in the EL for a league game or it may require us resting players in the league.



all games are important, which is precisely why im advocating managing the squad to get the best possible outcome on all fronts! :D (which i don't think you'd get by simply picking your best XI for every game)
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That is a good point, but in all honesty we do not ( yet) have a best 11. I think we may be thinking the same way but splitting hairs.
 
Poch has confirmed on the OS that there are no injuries. He has a full squad to pick from.

I have no idea what the team will be like though. I have no idea what team I would like put out. How to prioritise in this situation must be a nightmare for Poch. I do not envy his position in that sense.

Let us hope he gets it right.
 
billyiddo said:
i understand you want to prioritize the league over the Europa but you haven't really explained how you would do that - i asked JtG if he'd rest players in both Fiorentina legs to make sure we are in the best position to get 3 points from the West Ham game, at which point you came in and said that isn't what he meant - what do you think we should do and how would you go about prioritizing one competition over the other?
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I think Jurgen covered this better than I could, but here's what I would do:

Play the best team tomorrow. Then play the best team on Sunday against Spam. After 9 days rest, they should be able to handle two games in 4 days, especially since no travel is involved.

Then I would field a rested best team in the LC final. Which means that for the return leg I'd send in the reserves. If we have gotten a good result in the first leg, then we should see ourselves through. But if we haven't gotten a good result in the first leg, I wouldn't send out the best team. I'd still send the reserves and hope they pull through. If we do make it through, I'd manage the ties the same way, depending on how much rest the squad has, as well as what PL games follow the ties.
 
alekaras said:
I think Jurgen covered this better than I could, but here's what I would do:

Play the best team tomorrow. Then play the best team on Sunday against Spam. After 9 days rest, they should be able to handle two games in 4 days, especially since no travel is involved.

Then I would field a rested best team in the LC final. Which means that for the return leg I'd send in the reserves. If we have gotten a good result in the first leg, then we should see ourselves through. But if we haven't gotten a good result in the first leg, I wouldn't send out the best team. I'd still send the reserves and hope they pull through. If we do make it through, I'd manage the ties the same way, depending on how much rest the squad has, as well as what PL games follow the ties.
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I like this idea. It all depends on what the club has determined to be our priority. If they feel the EL is our best route to CL then Fiorentina will be the priority. If they feel a trophy is more important then they will focus on the Capital One (horrible, money-gouging credit card) Cup. I personally would love us to win another trophy. I have been lucky enough in the past to see us lift three of 'em (81 and 82 FA and 84 UEFA) and it's bloody buggery brilliant.

COYS!!!!!
 
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