Absolutely, but its also part of human nature - Boy that cried wolf and all that. If a ref knows a player has form for trying to con the ref into giving a penalty then it puts the seed of doubt in their mind....
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*** OMT Spurs v Crystal Palace ***
- Thread starter Denmark Spur
- Start date
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Alli is a top player but he’s a serial diver. I get that some dives split opinion but I don’t even see why we’re debating whether he dives or not because he clearly does. He does it more than any other player in the league that I can think of. Put it this way, if he played for Arsenal or worse yet Liverpool, you know, our real main rival according to GG posters do you honestly think people would have defended even one of his dives?
SpurMeUp
Les Howe
Others dive better. Kane dives only when there is contact. All other forwards do the same. Alli just needs to only go down after he feels a touch, and not before. Before never looks convincing.
Wasn't one of our best performances. Without a senior CB we look open defensively. Thankfully palace didn't attack a lot, and couldn't finish either. Our passing which had been slick in recent games regressed. Palace put us under a lot of pressure and we didn't get time on the ball - crisp fast passes would have created more time and space. I hope Toby and Jan can come back into the side for our run in. We need a solid experienced foundation. A fantastic result never the less. A game we'd have lost pre-poch. We take that for granted too much.
Gazza Dazzla
Chris Perry
You're right about one thing, this is extremely cringeworthy to have the same debate every week! When Dele dives then he quite rightly gets criticized, I don't see the need to make every time he falls to the ground a dive though, but like you say "you stick to your guns!". I bet your immediate reaction to the first incident was Dele diving? it what's you want to believe I'm afraid, you're convincing yourself and being led by others opinions.
I brought up 2 players who made dives the same day and you made excuses for them not being criticized, can't believe you're even arguing that? It's in black and white above.
You know how the media works, it's bandwagon every time, a month or so ago your were laughing at people for suggesting Liverpool werent better than us when the media were falling over themselves praising liverpool after the City game, it was as embarrassing to you then as this debate is now. Now you're laughing at people suggesting that just because Dele goes to ground it doesn't have to automatically be a dive. You're the media's wet dream mate!
Edit: But anyway, I've spent way too much time talking about this non incident today so will try to bow out now.
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Lemonade Money
Les Medley
I'm coming round to diving as acceptable. No different to any other trick. Obviously if there is no contact it's bad and gets punished.
If you tackle someone cleanly, doesn't matter whether they dive or not, you're not going to get penalised. Diving only punishes clumsy defending - if you don't like it, become a better defender.
If you tackle someone cleanly, doesn't matter whether they dive or not, you're not going to get penalised. Diving only punishes clumsy defending - if you don't like it, become a better defender.
Guess why theres the same debate every week? Because he keeps diving! My immediate reaction to the incident was to wait and see the replay, because Ive got it wrong a few times not just with him but other players. By seeing the replay you can see exactly a player's intentions, whether they're looking for contact, flat out dived, or a clear penalty.
I cant make this any clearer, I wasnt making excuses for those two players - Weelchair, for the second time I didnt even mention, and Monreal I stated did a worse dive than Dele. You questioned why those two players weren't being bought up in the same way as Dele and I answered your question - because they're not doing it week in week out. Im not making excuses for them diving, Im answering your question - the one which you asked.
I was laughing at the arrogance of some posters dismissing Liverpool as if we are better than them - and? Are we? At best we are on a par, not sure what your point is.
I've already said just because a player goes to ground it doesnt mean its a dive - So what? Dele dived in that instance, the media hasnt influenced my decision, I watch the replays myself and make my own decision. The fact just about every media outlet has stated its a dive just reinforces the point, and it goes way beyond just the media agreeing. I've accepted that diving is now part of the game, but Im not going to be biased and say he didnt dive when he blatantly did. If Hazard did the same thing vs us would you be claiming it wasnt a dive? Hmmm, I wonder....
thfcsteff
George Hunt
I had a reply (quite possibly long-winded) posted, but once this I realized I was part of this problem. Thank you mate for helping me disengage from this tedious "debate"...
Hotshot-Tottenham
Edgar Davids
That’s not true
Just look at Ashley Young’s swan dives where he launches forward and splays his legs to make contact with a defender.
Lemonade Money
Les Medley
If that's easily identified what he's done, then he gets punished.
I’ve been as critical of Alli’s diving as anyone, and the incident with Hennessey was clearly a dive of sorts. But it seemed to me like one of those that the football world normally finds fairly acceptable - facilitating contact by leaving your leg in. Surprised to see such strong reactions against it.
Spur of the moment
Frederic Kanoute
That's tantamount to saying cheating is okay, because deliberately leaving a leg in is precisely that. No doubt all sides cheat in all kinds of ways, it's only human - but it should never ever be condoned.
K.D.D.D.D.Soc
Ian Walker
I believe diving or going down when challenged has increased due to poor defending, far too many "defenders" try to tackle when they shouldn't. That's why we have a dearth of decent centre backs, they don't learn to tackle or defend properly despite all the alleged coaching, most defenders have their work done for them by the protective barrier in front of them and once that's breached they panic and make rash challenges. Its great to have defenders with good technique and attacking skills but their primary task is to defend.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
What should he have done there?
(general comments now mate, not aimed at you)
Someone said “jumped” over the keeper. Given the run he made, that comment
a) made me laugh and
b) made me ponder if they’d played football
As for Lineker and Shearer chiming in, hilarious. If we ARE to get into hypocrisy (dangerous territory as most people over the age of 5 are, by the laws of humanity, guilty of it in some way) then those two should stay away from their own youtube reels.
Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Jurgen the German
Erik Thorstvedt
Not dived. Tried to stay on his feet and get the ball. Posters defend players like Alli and Bale for trying to avoid injury, what about the defenders and goalkeepers? They risk their bodies when they slide in to stop attackers, goalies in particular but you don't see them carrying on like Alli dragging their legs into opponents in an attempt to buy a foul.
I love Alli and am glad he plays for us but I'd probably hate him if he didn't play for Spurs. He's dirty and he's a serial diver. I really don't see why we all can't just accept that he dives and move on.....Until he dives next week and we can talk about it again
As Jermaine Jenas said, refs are already wise to it and are starting to have doubts about giving him penalties.If we back Alli even when he cheats then we can't complain if Jamie Vardy does it against us in the last game of the season and denies us a CL place.
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Yeah I'm not condoning it myself. I despise diving. My point was that I'm surprised to see him getting almost unanimously condemned for it by the footballing world, given that I think pundits and the like are normally more ambivalent towards that kind of 'ensuring contact' dive.
Though having said I don't condone it, I actually think it is a tricky one. Because if he'd continued his run as normal I feel certain he would have been fouled. I think everyone would agree with that? But I guess it's against human nature to keep running naturally into an obstacle. So either you avoid the challenge and so allow the opponent to have obstructed you without being penalised, or you try and ensure contact without it looking manufactured. Like Kane did against Liverpool, which the pundits said was a definite pen.
thfcsteff
George Hunt
Spurs7891
Jermaine Jenas
This is a much needed win. It is nice to get back into winning form after drawing our last 2 matches. Also, this is our first away win in 6 matches in all competitions. It was not really a convincing performance but a win is a win. We dominated the match but didn't really look like scoring for most of the match. Despite that, felt confident we would score as we have always scored late against Palace in recent years. Fortunately for us, Kane rescued us yet again with another crucial goal just when we needed it most.
Well done to Kane for scoring our only goal. Amazingly, Kane has now scored in his last 5 matches for us in all competitions and has 6 goals in his last 6 league matches for us. Good to see him continuing his goal scoring run but he really should have scored another 2 goals. Was worried when he wasted those one-on-one chances but fortunately he found back his goal scoring boot. A bit disappointing that we failed to score more than 1 goal. Others like Eriksen, Alli and Lamela didn't look like scoring at all. Fortunately, Eriksen took a good corner for Kane to head that in.
Our midfield of Dembele and Wanyama did well to control the midfield even if Palace didn't really trouble us. But we do needed more creativity from midfield. For some reason, Lamela didn't have his best game. Eriksen did well to assist the goal with his corner but he too wasted a freekick after that. Moura and Son didn't have much impact after coming on as well.
Good to see our defence keeping the clean sheet. Was worried to see Dier starting in place of the injured Vertonghen in defence. Dier did make 1 or 2 of his usual mistakes but fortunately for us, Palace didn't attack much. Thought Sanchez and Dier did their part in defence as well. Special mention to Aurier for getting involved in many comedy of errors. Aurier is the first player in the history of PL to make 3 foul throws in the same match ! Not sure how any player can make those mistakes nowadays. Besides that, Aurier also missed an open goal.
It is nice to move above Chelsea into 4th place with this win. We do need to improve our away record in the remaining matches. Let's hope we will go on a long winning run to to stay in the top 4 race.
Well done to Kane for scoring our only goal. Amazingly, Kane has now scored in his last 5 matches for us in all competitions and has 6 goals in his last 6 league matches for us. Good to see him continuing his goal scoring run but he really should have scored another 2 goals. Was worried when he wasted those one-on-one chances but fortunately he found back his goal scoring boot. A bit disappointing that we failed to score more than 1 goal. Others like Eriksen, Alli and Lamela didn't look like scoring at all. Fortunately, Eriksen took a good corner for Kane to head that in.
Our midfield of Dembele and Wanyama did well to control the midfield even if Palace didn't really trouble us. But we do needed more creativity from midfield. For some reason, Lamela didn't have his best game. Eriksen did well to assist the goal with his corner but he too wasted a freekick after that. Moura and Son didn't have much impact after coming on as well.
Good to see our defence keeping the clean sheet. Was worried to see Dier starting in place of the injured Vertonghen in defence. Dier did make 1 or 2 of his usual mistakes but fortunately for us, Palace didn't attack much. Thought Sanchez and Dier did their part in defence as well. Special mention to Aurier for getting involved in many comedy of errors. Aurier is the first player in the history of PL to make 3 foul throws in the same match ! Not sure how any player can make those mistakes nowadays. Besides that, Aurier also missed an open goal.
It is nice to move above Chelsea into 4th place with this win. We do need to improve our away record in the remaining matches. Let's hope we will go on a long winning run to to stay in the top 4 race.