OMT Spurs Everton

[thfcsteff]

Just don’t get this mate..

Jose when backed = Winning top titles

Poch = Never backed because he is awful with money and has never won anything.

Yet Poch is the obvious call...

I may have to stop coming on here for a couple of seasons, the circle jerk from opportunities to slate our manager and not support the team is overwhelming (I didn’t mean you Steff but bringing up Poch again in this OMT? Really?!)

Just to add, yep we should be tinkled off after that performance and complaining is one thing but you have the likes of @modricthfc presumably edging to this thread basking in the glory of thinking he (?) was right all along, huzzah!!!!!!

I'll answer in order of your points mate.

He was backed at Man U and did not win a "top title"...

Your Poch assertion is your opinion; I never saw him with real money personally, if you did, enlighten me (don't say Ndombele and Lo Celso because he never had a chance with either).

You won't stop coming here mate, I understand what you're getting at but I bet you don't. With regards to Mourinho, my opinion versus my hopes of being wrong have stood since his appt. For the record (and I believe you were trying to say the same) I did not introduce Poch into the OMT thread as I remember, I responded to questions about his time - again, if you think I've got that wrong feel free to call me out, no worries.

I think to fully gauge the reaction, you'd have to accept that Mourinho comes into things with a big mouth and a big rep, does not shy away from reminding everyone about his record (been a while since the title and CL) and is not a project manager. Levy has fawned over him like a giddy school kid since day 2005. The scrutiny is going to be that much greater, no doubt whatsoever.

Mourinho is on a free pass right now, and covid19 has pretty much either handed that to him or taken away his chance of doing his job as he wants to do it. We will never know because without the stadium cash spigot turned on, we will not know whether Levy would've given Mourinho what he wants (money for big names). Whatever happens, Mourinho will leave with a huge excuse and an enormous paycheck. Call me old fashioned (or just a giant Cnut if you wish hahahaha) but I have little sympathy for him after 10 months in the job. I don't expect miracles but I expect progress and a pattern of play. I don't see progress, and I don't want to acknowledge what appears to be our current pattern of play as being our pattern of play.

Here's hoping I wear egg.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I'll answer in order of your points mate.

He was backed at Man U and did not win a "top title"...

Your Poch assertion is your opinion; I never saw him with real money personally, if you did, enlighten me (don't say Ndombele and Lo Celso because he never had a chance with either).

You won't stop coming here mate, I understand what you're getting at but I bet you don't. With regards to Mourinho, my opinion versus my hopes of being wrong have stood since his appt. For the record (and I believe you were trying to say the same) I did not introduce Poch into the OMT thread as I remember, I responded to questions about his time - again, if you think I've got that wrong feel free to call me out, no worries.

I think to fully gauge the reaction, you'd have to accept that Mourinho comes into things with a big mouth and a big rep, does not shy away from reminding everyone about his record (been a while since the title and CL) and is not a project manager. Levy has fawned over him like a giddy school kid since day 2005. The scrutiny is going to be that much greater, no doubt whatsoever.

Mourinho is on a free pass right now, and covid19 has pretty much either handed that to him or taken away his chance of doing his job as he wants to do it. We will never know because without the stadium cash spigot turned on, we will not know whether Levy would've given Mourinho what he wants (money for big names). Whatever happens, Mourinho will leave with a huge excuse and an enormous paycheck. Call me old fashioned (or just a giant Cnut if you wish hahahaha) but I have little sympathy for him after 10 months in the job. I don't expect miracles but I expect progress and a pattern of play. I don't see progress, and I don't want to acknowledge what appears to be our current pattern of play as being our pattern of play.

Here's hoping I wear egg.

Jose won the title 5 years ago by the way at Chelsea

 

[a spur from swansea]

Got a feeling Jose is sort of pushing Alli out of the club,he says things in jest saying he's lazy etc but yesterday i thought he did ok,closed down when he could ,had one or two chances,did ok,so what is he saying to him taking him off at half time??....Either Jose has got to generate cash via selling one or two players i.e Alli then getting his type of player in. We do need a proper striker full stop none of these quick nimble wingers,we've got loads of,Kane looks he's already doing an Eriksen and playing his time out,he's not happy at all his body language says it all. I think the argument that why would a striker come to us and play second fiddle to Kane has long gone we need someone either to play with him or challenge him because in 10 months Kane be gone.

I thought end of the last season we did get some sort pattern to our game wasn't exciting but got results,and we would carry on but something was lacking of sorts,a spark yesterday,i'll give it a few more weeks because we could use covid and the lack of pre season as an excuse but most clubs are in the same boat,after September has gone we could be in the group stage of the Europa cup and in the 4th round of Caribo cup and hopefully 6/7 th in the league that should be our short aims at the moment and two or three signings to the squad.

Here's hoping lol

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Got a feeling Jose is sort of pushing Alli out of the club,he says things in jest saying he's lazy etc but yesterday i thought he did ok,closed down when he could ,had one or two chances,did ok,so what is he saying to him taking him off at half time??....Either Jose has got to generate cash via selling one or two players i.e Alli then getting his type of player in. We thing we do need is a proper striker full stop none of these quick nimble wingers,we've got loads of,Kane looks he's already doing an Eriksen and playing his time out,he's not happy at all his body language says it all. I think the argument that why would a striker come to us and play second fiddle to Kane has long gone we need someone either to play with him or challenge him because in 10 months Kane be gone.

I thought end of the last season we did get some sort pattern to our game wasn't exciting but got results,and we would carry on but something was lacking of sorts,a spark yesterday,i'll give it a few more weeks because we could use covid and the lack of pre season as an excuse but most clubs are in the same boat,after September has gone we could be in the group stage of the Europa cup and in the 4th round of Caribo cup and hopefully 6/7 th in the league that should be our short aims at the moment and two or three signings to the squad.

Here's hoping lol

I actually think short term the amount of games coming up will work in our favour
It’s a chance to make tweaks but also create some fitness and match sharpness that wasn’t possible pre season

 

[elyid]

I actually think short term the amount of games coming up will work in our favour
It’s a chance to make tweaks but also create some fitness and match sharpness that wasn’t possible pre season

I agree. They'll be forced to pull their fingers out and get fitter just by playing.

 

[Grays_1890]

Jose won the title 5 years ago by the way at Chelsea

And should have gone on to create a legacy - Sacked

Had the best job in world football at United and a smaller benchmark than someone who first took over from Fergie - Sacked

People are not silly, he is a top manager, but I am not having an unbalanced view where we dont also acknowledge that the guy has had his very extreme issues, he does not just get things unlucky and lose his job, he has spectacular ends to very short stints with clubs. The worry is his golden period usually comes early on with clubs and it sours after, we seem to be getting the sour early.

Ultimately regardless of what anyone thinks about Mourinho the facts are we have to see a totally different Mourinho than history suggests, we are not Madrid, United or Chelsea, the parameters are different at Spurs, he has to show he can work with those, if he cant he should not have taken the job because like I said yesterday, once he took the job expectations were on him.

As for the preseason it is the same for everyone. As for signings take Everton as Example they spent 20m more on one extra player and spent alot better, thats not the clubs fault, Mourinho wants a certain type of player, The Clogger and Doherty are his type of player, we were never going to get a James because he is not a Mourinho type of player, thats on him not the board, there is no doubt he gets a say on the type of player he wants. Matic signing for him everywhere proves that.

 

[elltrev]

A lot of managers seem to enjoy players like Sissoko. Maybe because what you see is what you get, I don't know. Maybe he has a great attitude on the training ground. We'll never know for sure. I too thought he was bought in help us switch to a 4-3-3 BUT... a) what was the point, considering we created most of the chances in the first half (including theirs, as bedford mentioned) and b) he said a couple of days ago that he knew his squad so they wouldn't have to adapt to each other? 45 minutes into the game and he feels the need to make such drastic changes? Doesn't exactly fill anyone with confidence, does it?

It's true that he's always been one to make bold changes and sometimes, it does pay off and it's also true that a couple of (important) signings could maybe change the mood of the whole squad; Everton look good and they're on the up; Mourinho's tactics make defeat look worse than they really are... there're plenty of mitigating factors but I do find it worrying that we looked much better in the first weeks of the year, up until Son got injured. It shouldn't look that way.

I guess Sissoko always seems to work hard and give his all, and I can particularly imagine a manager like Jose valuing that.

In this specific case Jose actually said post-match that it was a tactical switch because there was lots of space either side of Allan, as he was playing as a 'single pivot'. He didn't say why his sub helped take advantage of this though, and personally I can't see how it was supposed to - and indeed it certainly didn't in practice! Also as far as I could see we didn't switch to 4-3-3 - looked to me like Sissoko went on the right and Moura went up top where Alli had been? Either way, certainly agree it wasn't a confidence-inspiring sub!

I don't want to overreact to one match, but truthfully I think it was massively worrying. We've had such a disappointing 12+ months, and this was our chance to put it all behind us - but tactically, technically and mentally we looked no better than when we were at our worst this last year.

 

[Lemonade Money]

Why did we drop Sissoko and Lucas on the wings if it worked so well at the end of last season? The starting team selection smacked of picking the best players, rather than the best team.

 

[Grays_1890]

I'll answer in order of your points mate.

He was backed at Man U and did not win a "top title"...

Your Poch assertion is your opinion; I never saw him with real money personally, if you did, enlighten me (don't say Ndombele and Lo Celso because he never had a chance with either).

You won't stop coming here mate, I understand what you're getting at but I bet you don't. With regards to Mourinho, my opinion versus my hopes of being wrong have stood since his appt. For the record (and I believe you were trying to say the same) I did not introduce Poch into the OMT thread as I remember, I responded to questions about his time - again, if you think I've got that wrong feel free to call me out, no worries.

I think to fully gauge the reaction, you'd have to accept that Mourinho comes into things with a big mouth and a big rep, does not shy away from reminding everyone about his record (been a while since the title and CL) and is not a project manager. Levy has fawned over him like a giddy school kid since day 2005. The scrutiny is going to be that much greater, no doubt whatsoever.

Mourinho is on a free pass right now, and covid19 has pretty much either handed that to him or taken away his chance of doing his job as he wants to do it. We will never know because without the stadium cash spigot turned on, we will not know whether Levy would've given Mourinho what he wants (money for big names). Whatever happens, Mourinho will leave with a huge excuse and an enormous paycheck. Call me old fashioned (or just a giant Cnut if you wish hahahaha) but I have little sympathy for him after 10 months in the job. I don't expect miracles but I expect progress and a pattern of play. I don't see progress, and I don't want to acknowledge what appears to be our current pattern of play as being our pattern of play.

Here's hoping I wear egg.

The thing is my expectations are so low and he is managing to even come in under those.

 

[StephenH]

Jose lost the plot yesterday and he needs to get his act together PDQ!

 

[StephenH]

The thing is my expectations are so low and he is managing to even come in under those.

This was just how I felt. Spent the previous week thinking ’cheer up, it won't be that bad’. When will I learn? Yesterday was worse than the friendly Watford outing.

 

[Grays_1890]

This was just how I felt. Spent the previous week thinking ’cheer up, it won't be that bad’. When will I learn? Yesterday was worse than the friendly Watford outing.

I am not expecting us to be Liverpool, Chelsea or Man United (on them threads Jose fans think we are better than the last two interestingly)

But I dont expect us regress to be Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Southampton or Palace either

 

[StephenH]

I am not expecting us to be Liverpool, Chelsea or Man United (on them threads Jose fans think we are better than the last two interestingly)

But I dont expect us regress to be Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Southampton or Palace either

I watched all of those clubs this weekend they are superior to what I saw from us yesterday.

What started to dawn was the players look disaffected with their circumstances at the club, it all looked a struggle for them the longer the game went on.

 

[glasgowspur]

I watched all of those clubs this weekend they are superior to what I saw from us yesterday.

What started to dawn was the players look disaffected with their circumstances at the club, it all looked a struggle for them the longer the game went on.

I agree with the second paragraph, it isn't the manager, it's the players.
There are too many that are the old spurs mentality, the "lads, its spurs" type. They aren't going to change.
Can only hope Jose can weed them out, not banking on it though.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

I watched all of those clubs this weekend they are superior to what I saw from us yesterday.

What started to dawn was the players look disaffected with their circumstances at the club, it all looked a struggle for them the longer the game went on.

That was the worrying part
The lack of urgency and motivation
It’s been an issue For 2 seasons now

 

[Grays_1890]

I watched all of those clubs this weekend they are superior to what I saw from us yesterday.

What started to dawn was the players look disaffected with their circumstances at the club, it all looked a struggle for them the longer the game went on.

I think thats where Poch is being vastly underestimated, he knew that the last project was over and a new needed, when he said that he was ridiculed by fans and Mourinho lauded, but what he said was BANG ON

 

[StephenH]

Because it's plain as day Jose cannot for whatever reason get the group motivated.
We will need to sell our top players if it turns out its the players who can't be arsed but I just don't see that happening.
Mourinho has already started throwing the squad under the bus with media very much as he did when at United.
Feel for Levy first COVID and now Mourinho.
Jose is yesterday's man.

 

[Grays_1890]

Because it's plain as day Jose cannot for whatever reason get the group motivated.
We will need to sell our top players if it turns out its the players who can't be arsed but I just don't see that happening.
Mourinho has already started throwing the squad under the bus with media very much as he did when at United.
Feel for Levy first COVID and now Mourinho.
Jose is yesterday's man.

Thats the worry now, we are going to need a total overhaul

 

[StephenH]

Thats the worry now, we are going to need a total overhaul

Levy needs a proper football exec. Didn't we say we were getting a NEW director of football?

 

[P.D.]

Levy needs a proper football exec. Didn't we say we were getting a NEW director of football?

We just got the guy from Swansea in but he seems more operations than in charge of scouting and implementing a playing style for all agre groups.