*** OMT: Mighty Spurs vs Scum ***

[Jurgen the German]

Odobert makes sense to me as he can beat a man with the ball. The plan only issue is placing so much importance on the young player making a step up plus Johnson looking a bit meh so far this season doesn't help.

We do look brick though, apart from Solanke the team looks pretty much the same as last seasons with the same problems. There doesn't seem to be the quality required to get the best out of the young signings and if we're picking up a point a game it's not going to be a particularly positive environment for them either.

I would say it's a bit much to be asking what the point of certain transfers 4 games in to their career though, calls for patience are occasionally annoying but probably fair enough in this situation!

I agree about giving the signings time. Ultimately I do feel our business model won’t have us challenging for much more than we did last season. We might get lucky with the odd manager who has us punching above our weight. I don’t entirely disagree with our strategy when it comes to signing players, would be nice if we could get more proven quality though rather than mostly punts on younger players. I said in another thread I like Ange but I don’t see a lot changing with the current regime in charge. Most will probably laugh it off as usual and not engage in conversation.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

we had more possession, more shots, more shots on target, more shots blocked, and they scored from a corner where Romero got knocked out of position and lost Gabriel.

Neither keeper was tested enough, and the defensive structure Arsenal imposed made for a tough time to break them down.

Yep
Both teams IMO Cancelled each other out
It wasn’t a spectacle for sure

 

[spurspinter1]

I do wonder about some people's tendency towards doom and gloom on here.

Its 4 games into the season, and we've had 63 shots on goal, 25 of which have been on target.

Anyone can see we're creating chances and not putting them away. Which is an issue, but if you want to have an issue then missing chances is better than not creating them. We were living on counter attack goals the season before last - now we're battering teams but not scoring (bar Everton).

Goals. Will. Come.

As for those saying we're not a very good team - we've beaten Arsenal, the Sky darlings and second coming of the Pep, on every metric you can find bar the result today. We stood toe to toe with them, and played our game, and for large parts of the game Arsenal couldn't live with it. Arsenal who are in their fifth season with Arteta, who joined them in Dec 2019, and who are in one of the veins of form of the last 20 years. If Solanki takes his chance in the first half, that could well have been a flood gates moment - and that is how we will be when the side clicks - we're going to smash teams by 4 and 5 to 1 or 2.

We can all berate the team for losing, we can moan about the manager being clueless, but if there's ever been a time to just hang in there as fans and let this team find its feet, then its now. We're not boring, we're not managed by a bellend with associations with another Prem team, and we have a squad that is rich in young players whose ceilings are really, really high.

I hate losing to Arsenal - it does my nut, but I am focussed on the bigger picture, and you play that game ten more times and we win it 9 times.

Was that entertaining football to you today? I would say it's pretty fair to say we were quite boring today.

As for the last sentence, we don't get to play that game 9 more times and your opinion of how those imaginary rematches would go doesn't change that the one time that counts is the one that happened today in reality. Hypothetical rematches are great and all but we lost to them again, third time in a row at home now right? They're a very good team so it happens but I would rather be able to walk away thinking we gave it a good go and had a chance.

Not getting battered away would be alright but at home it's fair enough to be disappointed and whilst 4 games isn't a lot to go on, we're not looking a terrifying prospect to play against.

 

[Surfless]

you know what would be amazing - a white hart lane style cauldron atmosphere. The minute that the goons scored today you could hear the noise drop off. Once upon a time, the atmosphere would have turned that game.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Odobert makes sense to me as he can beat a man with the ball. The plan only issue is placing so much importance on the young player making a step up plus Johnson looking a bit meh so far this season doesn't help.

We do look brick though, apart from Solanke the team looks pretty much the same as last seasons with the same problems. There doesn't seem to be the quality required to get the best out of the young signings and if we're picking up a point a game it's not going to be a particularly positive environment for them either.

I would say it's a bit much to be asking what the point of certain transfers 4 games in to their career though, calls for patience are occasionally annoying but probably fair enough in this situation!

Final balls and decision making are really really bad
I’m in the south stand and a guy behind me hates Johnson and Werner with a passion
Even he said why don’t we pass to Johnson … then we did twice, quickly late in the first half and both resulted in shots
I get some may think theses players aren’t the answer, but unless we play Ange ball the way it’s meant to be played we’re doomed. By that I mean quick passing like we saw at times last year. And again, I get we’re playing more low blocks ow but you don’t beat them by playing slow ball. We saw that under Poch

 

[Jurgen the German]

We need everyone to be better
Maddison is worryingly spending too much time doing a Poor man Scott parker
Hands like today show me why son isn’t a winger
Romero again just switched off at the wrong time (de ja vu)
They are senior players
They are the leaders apparently
But I never seen leadership
The rest are all still players who can go and up and down but some are also developing
Ange has big, brave calls to make

Maddison needs to better.

Ditto Bissouma (I realise he didn’t play today but he’s up and down).

Johnson - needs a bit more time but right now I wouldn’t class him as a success.

Werner - no point going over that again.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

you know what would be amazing - a white hart lane style cauldron atmosphere. The minute that the goons scored today you could hear the noise drop off. Once upon a time, the atmosphere would have turned that game.

The atmosphere was ok imo
the players have a role to play too
The slow play really really drains things

 

[Robbo]

But it's just reality mate. If Romero had complained more, if the team had reacted more, or if Romero had hit the deck when shoved, that goal would have been disallowed.

But Postecoglou himself said, multiple times, he doesn't like players making a meal of things and trying to influence the ref that way. I don't doubt that this, among other things, is why we just shrugged and looked to the ref hoping he'd disallow it, and he obviously didn't because there wasn't a strong enough reaction there. Just like when Vicario was bullied last season - we didn't react enough to get that called off, and we didn't again today.

It's a quixotic belief to think that you can ignore the dark arts and just outplay the opposition and somehow it works out.

Compare that to how Arse masterfully killed the game off in the end - players going down "injured" at crucial times, throw ins being delayed, Raya throwing himself to the ground after every minor save, his teammates slapping his back while he's on the ground to add a few more seconds, them constantly fouling players off the ball (Jorginho should've had a second yellow for that), etc.

It pains me to say it, but they're really good at it. Cynical and tactical, and mostly just within acceptable limits. Dark arts, gamesmanship, call it whatever you like, but that IMO was where the biggest difference between the two teams showed today.

We need to be smarter, and also more manipulative towards the ref. It's an admirable stance to want to do things by the book at all times, but that won’t take us anywhere as long as the game is run and refereed in a way that disadvantages those who always play by the rules.

 

[Surfless]

Was that entertaining football to you today? I would say it's pretty fair to say we were quite boring today.

As for the last sentence, we don't get to play that game 9 more times and your opinion of how those imaginary rematches would go doesn't change that the one time that counts is the one that happened today in reality. Hypothetical rematches are great and all but we lost to them again, third time in a row at home now right? They're a very good team so it happens but I would rather be able to walk away thinking we gave it a good go and had a chance.

Not getting battered away would be alright but at home it's fair enough to be disappointed and whilst 4 games isn't a lot to go on, we're not looking a terrifying prospect to play against.

I would say that the lack of entertainment was more down to the arsenal defensive setup than our approach. We started with 5 attacking players on the park, so the intent was clear.

Disappointment is fine, I actually said I hate losing to the goonsquad, so I am disappointed. What I'm not though is all doom and gloom about the manager, the approach, a player's individual error or the perception that we're not improving. There will be ups and downs, but I'm resolute in my belief that Ange, given time, is going places for us.

 

[Kandi1977]

Think Solanke is it. 27 years old, 65 million. Fills a massive gap in the team. That's our "now signing". Dragusin was it in January. Established international, provides depth in a position where we were massively exposed.

I think Solanke is the worst of our signings. Or not worst, rather least good. We needed a striker, but we needed a really prolific one. One that is able to move fast and in tight spaces. Solanke isn't that. Can't see he's improved us at all. Neither have the others, but they will! Some of them hopefully sooner rather than later, but all of them have a much higher potential than Solanke.

 

[Kandi1977]

you know what would be amazing - a white hart lane style cauldron atmosphere. The minute that the goons scored today you could hear the noise drop off. Once upon a time, the atmosphere would have turned that game.

Yeah, I was really disappointed with the crowd. Anfield would have screamed their lungs out in the final 15 minutes, to try to get energy into the team. It was awfully quiet, or at least a disjointed effort.

 

[Daisuk]

Frustrating. Same kind of loss we’ve seen before. We dominate long spells but don’t penetrate or finish, and leak a relatively simple goal. So take the performance as you wish:

- we’re work in progress and slowly getting better (better attacking chances with Solanke and only one mistake defending)

Or

- we’re consistently not making the most of attacks and conceding simple goals.


Both are true imo

we had more possession, more shots, more shots on target, more shots blocked, and they scored from a corner where Romero got knocked out of position and lost Gabriel.

Neither keeper was tested enough, and the defensive structure Arsenal imposed made for a tough time to break them down.

No, arsenal came to smother the game and succeeded.
I didn't see it but I'd gather that this game was similar to the one Arteta got pelters for at City towards the end of last season where he made little attempt to win.
Only difference was a set piece goal.

Cheers, lads, appreciate it. I will remain hopeful of us being able to turn this around. Coventry would be a good start!

 

[Mikey10]

I do wonder about some people's tendency towards doom and gloom on here.

Its 4 games into the season, and we've had 63 shots on goal, 25 of which have been on target.

Anyone can see we're creating chances and not putting them away. Which is an issue, but if you want to have an issue then missing chances is better than not creating them. We were living on counter attack goals the season before last - now we're battering teams but not scoring (bar Everton).

Goals. Will. Come.

As for those saying we're not a very good team - we've beaten Arsenal, the Sky darlings and second coming of the Pep, on every metric you can find bar the result today. We stood toe to toe with them, and played our game, and for large parts of the game Arsenal couldn't live with it. Arsenal who are in their fifth season with Arteta, who joined them in Dec 2019, and who are in one of the veins of form of the last 20 years. If Solanki takes his chance in the first half, that could well have been a flood gates moment - and that is how we will be when the side clicks - we're going to smash teams by 4 and 5 to 1 or 2.

We can all berate the team for losing, we can moan about the manager being clueless, but if there's ever been a time to just hang in there as fans and let this team find its feet, then its now. We're not boring, we're not managed by a bellend with associations with another Prem team, and we have a squad that is rich in young players whose ceilings are really, really high.

I hate losing to Arsenal - it does my nut, but I am focussed on the bigger picture, and you play that game ten more times and we win it 9 times.

Today’s performance was pretty dreadful. Our play is slow and predictable. We rarely troubled them and they were able to beat us, at home, without two players who are absolutely vital to them. We could play that game 10 times and we’d make a stupid mistake in 9 of them and lose as we never really look like scoring remain defensively frail.

I agree more time needs to be given, but I’m not seeing anything that’s different to the bulk of last year. We’re a poor watch and there’s no real sign of what we were sold - fast, attacking football.

 

[spurspinter1]

I agree about giving the signings time. Ultimately I do feel our business model won’t have us challenging for much more than we did last season. We might get lucky with the odd manager who has us punching above our weight. I don’t entirely disagree with our strategy when it comes to signing players, would be nice if we could get more proven quality though rather than mostly punts on younger players. I said in another thread I like Ange but I don’t see a lot changing with the current regime in charge. Most will probably laugh it off as usual and not engage in conversation.

The signings and Ange need time, if I was in charge I'd want to keep on with the direction we're headed in terms of young signings / apparently positive forward thinking football. To lurch back the other way again wouldn't bode well.

Maybe I'll sound a bit jaded on the forum / Spurs front but I feel like most of the conversations have been had and will repeat endlessly without really covering new ground. We all want Spurs to be better, even as a relatively young fan there's been plenty of false dawns.

I'm not sure if anyone on here is saying we'll be way above where we were last season in terms of what we're competing for, the team doesn't look much better on paper really - We did well clearing players out and getting in some new young talent but we're miles off it. The likes of Modric and Dembele couldn't get it over the line, do we really think Bentancur and Biss injury are the men for the job? These two no longer have PEH / Skipp to deflect blame. At least back then we had players that would create a moment out of nowhere, some silky skills or a bit of clever play - At the minute my thought is that the players are just fudging boring to watch, there's no real wow factor, it's stale as fudge, it could be Odobert to solve it but it's a lot of pressure on him.

It's also such a typical Spurs thing that we can simultaneously leak goals / defend set pieces like we do whilst also allegedly having the best CB partnership in the league. Isn't it great that VDV can run real fast and Romero is a bit of a hard man? I'd rather they actually could form a cohesive defense personally.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Today’s performance was pretty dreadful. Our play is slow and predictable. We rarely troubled them and they were able to beat us, at home, without two players who are absolutely vital to them. We could play that game 10 times and we’d make a stupid mistake in 9 of them and lose as we never really look like scoring remain defensively frail.

I agree more time needs to be given, but I’m not seeing anything that’s different to the bulk of last year. We’re a poor watch and there’s no real sign of what we were sold - fast, attacking football.

I agree with the first bit for sure
They got lucky with the goal
The cross was salad only accurate pass all game and of course they shoved Romero
They were also lucky that timber didnt get his red
But that doesn’t detract from our football being bland and slow
It’s easy to defend because so often we pick a poor pass or a sideways one

 

[Bedfordspurs]

The signings and Ange need time, if I was in charge I'd want to keep on with the direction we're headed in terms of young signings / apparently positive forward thinking football. To lurch back the other way again wouldn't bode well.

Maybe I'll sound a bit jaded on the forum / Spurs front but I feel like most of the conversations have been had and will repeat endlessly without really covering new ground. We all want Spurs to be better, even as a relatively young fan there's been plenty of false dawns.

I'm not sure if anyone on here is saying we'll be way above where we were last season in terms of what we're competing for, the team doesn't look much better on paper really - We did well clearing players out and getting in some new young talent but we're miles off it. The likes of Modric and Dembele couldn't get it over the line, do we really think Bentancur and Biss injury are the men for the job? These two no longer have PEH / Skipp to deflect blame. At least back then we had players that would create a moment out of nowhere, some silky skills or a bit of clever play - At the minute my thought is that the players are just fudging boring to watch, there's no real wow factor, it's stale as fudge, it could be Odobert to solve it but it's a lot of pressure on him.

It's also such a typical Spurs thing that we can simultaneously leak goals / defend set pieces like we do whilst also allegedly having the best CB partnership in the league. Isn't it great that VDV can run real fast and Romero is a bit of a hard man? I'd rather they actually could form a cohesive defense personally.

We defended their set pieces well IMO. They are masters of it and that was their only one that was dangerous (the crossing was atrocious).
We also haven’t conceded anomy other set piece goals so far
But the issues at the other end are big right now

 

[spurspinter1]

I would say that the lack of entertainment was more down to the arsenal defensive setup than our approach. We started with 5 attacking players on the park, so the intent was clear.

Disappointment is fine, I actually said I hate losing to the goonsquad, so I am disappointed. What I'm not though is all doom and gloom about the manager, the approach, a player's individual error or the perception that we're not improving. There will be ups and downs, but I'm resolute in my belief that Ange, given time, is going places for us.

I certainly hope it'll work with Ange, I can hold the position of thinking today was dogbrick whilst hoping it will come good in the future!

The perception of us not improving is a tricky one, we'll see at the end of the season. Things could go out way and get a top four finish, which would be great progress...(Although we've kinda been there and done that so it's just the cycle repeating itself)

We can start 5 attacking players but I couldn't really tell what to plan was to get the most out of them....But to give arsenal credit they are good at nullifying teams and work super hard to get back in to shape once they lose the ball, the chance to counter is gone within seconds and nothing really came naturally/ quickly to us today.

 

[Muttley]

For me, today was yet another RIP Football moment. Once again we have referees blatantly ignoring the very laws of the game that they are put on the pitch to administer. For once, I'm not talking about yellow cards either. I'm talking about the goal. Why did we bother giving these guys the benefit of technology? Anyone could see that a strikers arms were raised and went into the defenders back allowing for a clear header. It wouldn't have been without the clear push. How can you not see that and make the right no-brainer decision in less than 2 seconds. As far as I'm concerned we've all become way too tolerant to this BS from on-pitch and video referees. They are being completely negligent in their duties and are totally responsible for negatively changing history. The commentators and pundits need to grow a pair as well and speak up for the spirit of the game in these moments.

As for the game itself, I thought we asserted ourselves well. 4 points from 4 games doesn't look good but within that I think we should avoid hitting the panic button with Ange. He should feel the pressure on some fine tuning though. An example would be Udogie whose impetuousness is becoming a problem in this team. The player needs help to overcome these rash moments.

If I had a mild concern today, it was more about Solanke and Sonny. The former just looks to be short of footballing quality. He's not being calm in the moments where he needs to be calm. The latter, Son, is now at the point where his place in the team should be severely challenged. We can't keep carrying him in this way.

 

[Nexus1967]

Broken record here again. At the end of the day the main difference in the game today was the 2 defences. Their attack looked as toothless as ours. Luckily IMO they effed up their best chances, was it Martinelli who in the first half broke clear and then fired a tame shot that was comfortable for Vic instead of squaring it for Saka to tap in and he had a 1 on 1 with Vic in the 2nd half. The big difference was every time we had a set piece it either never beat the first man or sailed harmlessly over every one into a space with no one attacking it. Yet every time they had a corner it was delivered well and caused us problems until the one time we switched off and they scored. The goal Havertz scored in Last seasons game at our place was nearly identical. New season same mistakes and problems. Its got to be a coaching and tactics problem. We will smash a few teams this year but any team organised and disciplined with a half decent attack can punish us.
Is it just me being a pessimistic old fart but nothing has changed really for ages. New players but the same old same old every game. Does any one on here really think we are going to click into gear and push for a top 4 finish or trophy with the way we are playing and the players we have?

 

[Mikey10]

Broken record here again. At the end of the day the main difference in the game today was the 2 defences. Their attack looked as toothless as ours. Luckily IMO they effed up their best chances, was it Martinelli who in the first half broke clear and then fired a tame shot that was comfortable for Vic instead of squaring it for Saka to tap in and he had a 1 on 1 with Vic in the 2nd half. The big difference was every time we had a set piece it either never beat the first man or sailed harmlessly over every one into a space with no one attacking it. Yet every time they had a corner it was delivered well and caused us problems until the one time we switched off and they scored. The goal Havertz scored in Last seasons game at our place was nearly identical. New season same mistakes and problems. Its got to be a coaching and tactics problem. We will smash a few teams this year but any team organised and disciplined with a half decent attack can punish us.
Is it just me being a pessimistic old fart but nothing has changed really for ages. New players but the same old same old every game. Does any one on here really think we are going to click into gear and push for a top 4 finish or trophy with the way we are playing and the players we have?

Nope.

I’m hopeful we get a good European run going and that he might actually start playing the youngsters. That’s already the height of my ambitions.