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Oliver Skipp

K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
There's your problem we won so everything is great, only took 39 years to win it again. We have some good players in that group but only 4 of them are regular starters.
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I can’t agree
We have a recent history of importing players, including some average but cheap ones, but the style of the football has changed immensely

young English players are now growing up and being coached to be more and more technical and know more and more about how to look after themselves

it’s why the England youth teams have cleaned up in recent years and the senior team has improved a lot despite still have a large proportion of overseas players in our league

and when you look at the starting team that won the game yesterday, you are right about the starters. But the slain side had quite a lot who don’t start either. Did you know that? The keeper has no club although was at Barca. The striker players for city… well doesn’t play. There were others too

it’s the nature of the modern game. The very best clubs get the best talent but don’t always develop it.

it’s why loans are key and Poch really hurt is with his plan to not loan players. He did it 100% for the right reasons but he was an inexperienced coach.

every player with the right talent needs the right attitude to become a professional and that is learned from playing games. Not from coaching
 
I think Skipp deserves a year under Ange. He's shown some moments where he'd get involved in attack, quick passes to advance play and long searching balls so I think technically he is sound and quick thinking

I also thought I saw him holding back...not a bad thing last season when our defence was consistently leaking goals and the others in midfield were slow to track back and screen.

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K.D.D.D.D.Soc said:
Totally agree, that would be the case at present. What I'm saying is I want to see improvements in our coaching and development strategy in all clubs, overseas players aren't born better players than British players, they are coached in a different way, they learn to love the ball and protect it. There have been improvements but even at PL clubs it's big boys with stamina making up a lot of the youth teams. When I was a teenager Portugal, Holland, Yugoslavia and Belgium were countries with poor international and club sides even France were very average but they've worked at their deficiencies and regularly produce good players, in Britain we've fallen behind them through lack of good coaching and structure of youth football.
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I'm not sure how old you are but I'm in my early 40s and when I was young Yugoslavia had one of the most talented sides the world has ever seen and if not for the wars of the 90s could be argued to be the best international side that never won anything.

Portugal also always had a fantastic crop of technical players, mainly midfielders but they've always produced them in my life time.

Belgium have been inconsistent in development, but in the 70s and early 80s they had very good sides. Remember they got to the WC semis in 1986 so it was only really in the 90s they dropped a little in quality.

Holland have never ever been average, I have no idea what you're thinking there. 2x WC final appearances, 1x Euro win, 5x CL wins between 2 teams.

Again France have never really been average. Underachievers yes, average no. Before the Clairefontain revolution of the 90s they had already produced players like Platani, Tigana, Giresse and Fontaine. What France lacked was a consistent strategy and a bit of luck. Even with those things considered pre their 98 world cup win what wasn't really based on the Clairefontain revolution they already had 2x 3rd places in the World Cup (58 & 86) and a Euro win in 1984.

I know you said you didn't watch much football outside of the PL but I think your perceptions and understandings of football outside of the British Isles are quite skewed.

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Skipp's two goals against Barca shows his higher potential in attack . Opportunistic positioning and killer instinct/first touch.

Ange's system will see more goals from midfield and good to see Skipp embrace the challenge.

there is good competition here not just for now but the future too. No worries if Spence and Hojberg leaves.
 
While it’s difficult to compare different players playing in different matches, I still think Skipp is better suited to our midfield than PEH. Not that PEH was that bad against Shaktar, but he tends to take the “safer” option too readily. Rarely turns with the ball when receiving it, and more likely to pass it back to the CBs which just invites more pressure. Skipp obviously has some development still to do but I think he’s a very solid squad option at the very least with potential to be a regular starter. Ange also had some nice things to say about him and Sarr so it seems we are in a decent position in midfield. Once Bentancur gets back, that’s when the real headaches start for Ange.
 
parklane1 said:
Had a very good game and scored two goals, the second one was really good and not something i have seen from him before. Ange working his magic on him?.
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In preseason he's been in position a lot to be a goal threat (it's the system), in the previous games he fluffed his lines (he's no where near a decent finisher)

One of his better games and it's says a lot that even at his best, he's probably going to be 2nd/3rd choice in this midfield in long run.
 
parklane1 said:
Had a very good game and scored two goals, the second one was really good and not something i have seen from him before. Ange working his magic on him?.
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I think the fact players are going to be playing regularly 10 to 20 years further up the pitch is going to change so many players dynamic
 
Bishop said:
I'm not sure how old you are but I'm in my early 40s and when I was young Yugoslavia had one of the most talented sides the world has ever seen and if not for the wars of the 90s could be argued to be the best international side that never won anything.

Portugal also always had a fantastic crop of technical players, mainly midfielders but they've always produced them in my life time.

Belgium have been inconsistent in development, but in the 70s and early 80s they had very good sides. Remember they got to the WC semis in 1986 so it was only really in the 90s they dropped a little in quality.

Holland have never ever been average, I have no idea what you're thinking there. 2x WC final appearances, 1x Euro win, 5x CL wins between 2 teams.

Again France have never really been average. Underachievers yes, average no. Before the Clairefontain revolution of the 90s they had already produced players like Platani, Tigana, Giresse and Fontaine. What France lacked was a consistent strategy and a bit of luck. Even with those things considered pre their 98 world cup win what wasn't really based on the Clairefontain revolution they already had 2x 3rd places in the World Cup (58 & 86) and a Euro win in 1984.

I know you said you didn't watch much football outside of the PL but I think your perceptions and understandings of football outside of the British Isles are quite skewed.

Sent from my XQ-BC72 using Fapatalk
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Sorry not replied earlier I'm writing about the 60's, I think the improvement in the countries I mentioned was the experience these countries clubs gain in the European competitions, with the exception of Portugal and Benfica who had the fantastic Eusebio.
 
Grays_1890 said:
Haha yeh yards although years would be relevant as we have been playing football out of the dark ages
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I can remember football from the dark ages (pre European club competitions) teams, even the weakest, played to win, I cant remember them playing with 8-9 men defending as a tactic. There seem to be one strategy, get the ball up to your forwards as quick as possible and score more goals than your opponents. Technique and tactics improved massively as more clubs played regularly against European teams the only down side I could see was the aim of most clubs was shifted to stopping your opponents winning rather than winning yourself.
 
My biggest beef with Skipp has always been that he doesn’t get on the ball enough. Yesterday’s passing stats were:

- Bissouma: 116
- Royal: 106
- Maddison: 63
- Kulu: 58
- Skipp: 39 (equal to around 52 if he hadn’t been subbed).

And last season he averaged 45 passes per 90, compared to around 65 for Hojbjerg.

It’s not like he’s making up for that by being a massive threat in the final third. Bit of a strange one.
 
elltrev said:
My biggest beef with Skipp has always been that he doesn’t get on the ball enough. Yesterday’s passing stats were:

- Bissouma: 116
- Royal: 106
- Maddison: 63
- Kulu: 58
- Skipp: 39 (equal to around 52 if he hadn’t been subbed).

And last season he averaged 45 passes per 90, compared to around 65 for Hojbjerg.

It’s not like he’s making up for that by being a massive threat in the final third. Bit of a strange one.
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That depends a bit what role you are playing. A really good DM will often see very little of the ball. If their job is essentially to close down the passing lanes, if they are doing that well, the ball will come no where near them.

I appreciate yesterday that he was playing in front of Bissouma though.
 
The construction of our midfield is the biggest change. Royal and Udogie a midfield 2 in possession. Bissouma behind them. (Having Royal ahead of Bissouma doesn't feel right). Where Skipp then moves is tbc. I don't think he found much space. Maddison dropped deep quite a bit. Skipp did make some decent passes to Kulu but it was all very congested.
 
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SpurMeUp said:
The construction of our midfield is the biggest change and is quite different. Royal and Udoggie a midfield 2 in possession. Bissouma behind them. (Having Royal ahead of Bissouma doesn't feel right). Where Skipp then moves is tbc. I don't think he found much space. Maddison dropped deep quite a bit. Skipp did make some decent passes to Kulu but it was all very congested.
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Watch the heatmap I posted in match thread

Basically Skipp was occupying the same space as Royal.

Said it elsewhere, like Skipp, just don't think he's a starter for us.
 
Raziel said:
Watch the heatmap I posted in match thread

Basically Skipp was occupying the same space as Royal.

Said it elsewhere, like Skipp, just don't think he's a starter for us.
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Yeah if Royal is going to consistently play so centrally like that, I think the player in Skipp's role has to play more as a no.10 / inside forward. Otherwise they're just getting in each other's way. Or Skipp ends up going out wide behind Kulu, which feels pointless as it's just the CM and RB completely swapping positions.
 
SpurMeUp said:
The construction of our midfield is the biggest change and is quite different. Royal and Udoggie a midfield 2 in possession. Bissouma behind them. (Having Royal ahead of Bissouma doesn't feel right). Where Skipp then moves is tbc. I don't think he found much space. Maddison dropped deep quite a bit. Skipp did make some decent passes to Kulu but it was all very congested.
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So the thing is, that congestion is by design

I didn't quite understand the Ange system from what people described, but watching it in preseason and yesterday, what you see is, with the midfield three plus the FBs coming into that space, the midfield is congested, it means when we lose the ball there generally isn't a route strait through the middle, you have to go wide to counter, and typically diagonally wide (as our wingers are high and wide as well). We could argue what it means, but what I saw was the opposition has to take the longer route, gives quick CBs/FB's chance to recover

Re Skipp, I think your CM players need to be very comfortable in tight spaces, something Bissouma, Bentancur, Sarr, Maddison are much better than him at.
 
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