OFT - Tottenham Vs Barcelona

[djp82]

Sunday here we come. Season of watching some actual positive football.

My one concern is Vicario. Not convinced that he’s going to be a decent long term Gk. Especially as Raya has moved down the road to them lot.

Tonight in second half there were few occasions he’s touching out shots that are going wide or over. Also first goal at near post was not great keeping. Yes it’s a bit picky on his mistakes but he does not fill me with confidence.Early days but got a feeling.

 

[Nexus1967]

Definitely stubborn managers who wanted a team bought for them that Levy did not do. The last few years our transfer policy has been questionable to say the least. I really hope that Ange gets time and backing to build an exciting team. The friendlies may not have been the best preparation for the coming season but at least it looks like we will be treated to some attacking football

 

[Raziel]

This is what annoys me about football fans today, your team lose and it's all rubbish, nothing to look forward to until they win, I didn't expect a win and I certainly didn't expect us to play so well. Nexus must have a very short memory if he can't see any improvement on the type of football we played in cup games with our rotation teams, these players looked like they knew what they were supposed to be doing, sure there were I individual errors but overall it was a massive positive from the last 3 years, before anyone says it was only a friendly it's not to Barcelona they have won this trophy 25 times in the 28 years it's been played for.

Classic troll post mate, leave it, move along

I fully expected us to get spanked when I saw the lineups, Barca played pretty much their first 11 against our B side with the worst version of our defense. Not only did we play, we played out of their press on numerous occasions (not something I ever expected to see/say), we pressed them, won the ball back often and a few of the fringe players put up a huge case for their inclusion in first 11. There was about 20 minutes where Barca looked completely lost against Spurs (hilarious statement)

Barca won that because they put on fresh legs (more subs) and had a better bench. Look at Xavi's face at the end of the game, he wasn't amused/happy.

Just imagine Conte or Jose going with that side to Barcelona, the brick tactics, the 18% possession, the zero shots on goal and probably 5 or 6 nil .. now look at what a single preseason with a manager that wants to play did ..

 

[billyiddo]

We didn`t get spanked? What is losing 4-2 then? Bearing in mind a certain shower of brick put 5 past Barca a week or so ago. Anyway its only a meaningless friendly and most of the players tonight will not even get named in our Premiership squad. Probably only half a dozen of them anyway. Probably the most aggravating thing for me is the players we buy with so much potential but never seem to manage any type of consistency. Davinson looked great tonight and usually does for about 6 games each season then it is heart in the mouth stuff after that. Lo Celso is another who looks unstoppable for a few games then disappears into averageness. I think Bissouma must have been carrying an injury or something last season but for me he was our stand out player tonight.

Spanking suggests being 2nd best all game and completely dominated, not losing by a couple goals in a match we were arguably the better side for the majority of. The positives are there to be seen, a change team of ours competed well with a much stronger side and in doing so also showez that they were picking up the new managers style/approach despite the limited time working with him.

 

[spurspinter1]

We didn`t get spanked? What is losing 4-2 then? Bearing in mind a certain shower of brick put 5 past Barca a week or so ago. Anyway its only a meaningless friendly and most of the players tonight will not even get named in our Premiership squad. Probably only half a dozen of them anyway. Probably the most aggravating thing for me is the players we buy with so much potential but never seem to manage any type of consistency. Davinson looked great tonight and usually does for about 6 games each season then it is heart in the mouth stuff after that. Lo Celso is another who looks unstoppable for a few games then disappears into averageness. I think Bissouma must have been carrying an injury or something last season but for me he was our stand out player tonight.

It's interesting seeing the pre season reaction, I haven't seen enough of it to really have an opinion but am always wary of "looking great" in pre-season, we all remember Juande 's pre season wonders..

Results have been average or worse ie losing to West Spam and falling apart against Barca whilst beating sailors and a great club that lost their great players to war but I get why people are enjoying the positive aspects of the performances. Obviously you'll not be popular for not being swept away by our build up play / pressing in a pre season but I get people wanting to see positive signs and get carried away on that front, it's how it translates to competitive games that matter and everyone knows that.

It's a pre season with a new manager so players out of the loop in the last regime are predictably going to say positive things about the new boss, doesn't mean a lot but then not much will until we see how we do in the first season.

 

[Nexus1967]

This is the great thing about football everyone sees it differently. Raziels post above nails the game. Looking at the line up I did not expect anything from the game except for a few players to show what they can do and a couple certainly did that. For Tottenham Hotspur this was a shop window and Levy will be hoping that the players we need to sell will earn some decent transfer money. Mind you there were a couple who I think we will be hard pressed to give away

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Classic troll post mate, leave it, move along

I fully expected us to get spanked when I saw the lineups, Barca played pretty much their first 11 against our B side with the worst version of our defense. Not only did we play, we played out of their press on numerous occasions (not something I ever expected to see/say), we pressed them, won the ball back often and a few of the fringe players put up a huge case for their inclusion in first 11. There was about 20 minutes where Barca looked completely lost against Spurs (hilarious statement)

Barca won that because they put on fresh legs (more subs) and had a better bench. Look at Xavi's face at the end of the game, he wasn't amused/happy.

Just imagine Conte or Jose going with that side to Barcelona, the brick tactics, the 18% possession, the zero shots on goal and probably 5 or 6 nil .. now look at what a single preseason with a manager that wants to play did ..

Imagine if we had brought on Kane, Kulu and son
It’s all very different and predictably unpredictable in pre season games
I’m still amazed we played it as the timing is odd
It may well help us in the end with the cancelled game

 

[Raziel]

It's interesting seeing the pre season reaction, I haven't seen enough of it to really have an opinion but am always wary of "looking great" in pre-season, we all remember Juande 's pre season wonders..

Results have been average or worse ie losing to West Spam and falling apart against Barca whilst beating sailors and a great club that lost their great players to war but I get why people are enjoying the positive aspects of the performances. Obviously you'll not be popular for not being swept away by our build up play / pressing in a pre season but I get people wanting to see positive signs and get carried away on that front, it's how it translates to competitive games that matter and everyone knows that.

It's a pre season with a new manager so players out of the loop in the last regime are predictably going to say positive things about the new boss, doesn't mean a lot but then not much will until we see how we do in the first season.

You can have good results in preseason that are not reflective, fitness, squads, competitive levels, etc.

That said, your B team playing a possession/press game and passing around Barca's first 11 press, in their final warm up game in Barcelona isn't something you fluke. Not many teams would even have the balls to try it.

 

[Nexus1967]

Ha ha reading my posts I am actually not that negative about Spurs usually, but I cant get over excited over a meaningless friendly. Raziel and Spurspinter1 have nailed it for me. I think everyone has seen too much Mourhino/Conte ball lately so it is hard not to get excited when our team starts playing football how it should be played.
Anywal roll on sunday
COYS

 

[Bedfordspurs]

You can have good results in preseason that are not reflective, fitness, squads, competitive levels, etc.

That said, your B team playing a possession/press game and passing around Barca's first 11 press, in their final warm up game in Barcelona isn't something you fluke. Not many teams would even have the balls to try it.

Most teams couldnt try it because the coaches wouldn’t allow it
Doing it with a team that’s 10 changes from your first 11… brave and ballsy
The conviction for the players and Ange to execute it is a huge sign
Who cares ability results pre season. If they mattered then Kane would have his trophy haul. They don’t
What matters now is Brentford and Ange knowing that but more about his side

 

[DubaiSpur]

I was certain that we lost the game the minute we started Dier and Sanchez, so I'm not too fussed about the result. Sanchez even played well, which is a nice surprise. Dier was dire, what else is new.

Apart from that, the resurgence of Lo Celso continues to be a pleasant surprise, and Bissouma is showing real glimpses of the player we thought we were buying last season.

With Lo Celso in particular, we now have backup for either of Bissouma or Maddison - and potentially even more. I remember back when we bought him, all of Europe was excited about this all-action midfielder who had just had a stunning season with Betis, and who PSG were regretting having let go. He was statistically one of the most well-rounded, press-resistant midfielders in Europe - a Poch player through and through.

Just...something went horribly wrong between 2019 and 2023.

Somewhere in him is the club equivalent of the player who turns out for Argentina - by all accounts, a world-beating press-resistant progressive of the ball. If we can unlock him the way we utterly failed to do with Ndombele, it would transform our midfield.

 

[Bullet]

Lovely to see Spurs play with such belief and style.
And that was our B Team!
We didn't play
Royal Romero VdV Udogie
...Sarr Hojbjerg Maddison
......Kulu Kane Son

Nor Bentancur of course.
And Barca only won it when we were absolutely exhausted/ brought on the C Team kids.

Watch the highlights and pause it when Barca make the incisive move for their goals
#1 Reggie is out of position and doesn't know whether to press or retreat, which causes the goal
#2 Reggie is caught sleeping and a kid makes 15 yards head start on him
#3 Reggie buys a dummy from a kid and tries to get back and pulls his hamstring
#4 Reggie is hobbling on one leg, GHod knows why he wasn't subbed, so he was hopeless

Reggie has to be removed. He is our 4th or 5th choice I think after Udogie Davies Sess and probably VdV too actually.

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Ha ha reading my posts I am actually not that negative about Spurs usually, but I cant get over excited over a meaningless friendly. Raziel and Spurspinter1 have nailed it for me. I think everyone has seen too much Mourhino/Conte ball lately so it is hard not to get excited when our team starts playing football how it should be played.
Anywal roll on sunday
COYS

Its probably starting with the noun "spanking" which most people would take as meaning being humiliated, which was clearly not the case. I think few would see our games as an indication we are going to be chasing honours this season but after our recent famine of entertaining football we are looking forward to a feast of us playing on the front foot. I suspect many will soon lose faith if results dont go our way but personally I'd rather watch us try and play good football and lose than the suicidal defensive dross we've been served up for the past 2 years. That is not what this club is about.

 

[Raziel]

I was certain that we lost the game the minute we started Dier and Sanchez, so I'm not too fussed about the result. Sanchez even played well, which is a nice surprise. Dier was dire, what else is new.

Apart from that, the resurgence of Lo Celso continues to be a pleasant surprise, and Bissouma is showing real glimpses of the player we thought we were buying last season.

With Lo Celso in particular, we now have backup for either of Bissouma or Maddison - and potentially even more. I remember back when we bought him, all of Europe was excited about this all-action midfielder who had just had a stunning season with Betis, and who PSG were regretting having let go. He was statistically one of the most well-rounded, press-resistant midfielders in Europe - a Poch player through and through.

Just...something went horribly wrong between 2019 and 2023.

Somewhere in him is the club equivalent of the player who turns out for Argentina - by all accounts, a world-beating press-resistant progressive of the ball. If we can unlock him the way we utterly failed to do with Ndombele, it would transform our midfield.

To me the preseason surprises have been

- Lo Celso, there was always a player there, fitness probably remains a concern, but having both him and Maddison negates a lot of that
- Bissouma, looks good, looks happy, manager seems to have a plan for him
- Solomon, upgrade on the Lucas/Gil role, better than I expected for a "free"

As you said, nothing new re the defense
- Sanchez got done in first 5 mins (adapting to pace of game), then recovered to be our best defender for the rest of the game
- Dier's speed, positioning, basic defending got exposed again
- Reguilon was poor, and part of quite a few of the goals

As none of that defense is part of the long term plan, I'm less worried

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Lovely to see Spurs play with such belief and style.
And that was our B Team!
We didn't play
Royal Romero VdV Udogie
...Sarr Hojbjerg Maddison
......Kulu Kane Son

Nor Bentancur of course.
And Barca only won it when we were absolutely exhausted/ brought on the C Team kids.

Watch the highlights and pause it when Barca make the incisive move for their goals
#1 Reggie is out of position and doesn't know whether to press or retreat, which causes the goal
#2 Reggie is caught sleeping and a kid makes 15 yards head start on him
#3 Reggie buys a dummy from a kid and tries to get back and pulls his hamstring
#4 Reggie is hobbling on one leg, GHod knows why he wasn't subbed, so he was hopeless

Reggie has to be removed. He is our 4th or 5th choice I think after Udogie Davies Sess and probably VdV too actually.

Reggie has had so many issues last season and he knows we don’t want him anymore
Such a shame as he is a likeable guy it seems and has the basics to be top drawer but the defensive brains of a kid
We will struggle to shift him after last season imo

 

[Bedfordspurs]

To me the preseason surprises have been

- Lo Celso, there was always a player there, fitness probably remains a concern, but having both him and Maddison negates a lot of that
- Bissouma, looks good, looks happy, manager seems to have a plan for him
- Solomon, upgrade on the Lucas/Gil role, better than I expected for a "free"

As you said, nothing new re the defense
- Sanchez got done in first 5 mins (adapting to pace of game), then recovered to be our best defender for the rest of the game
- Dier's speed, positioning, basic defending got exposed again
- Reguilon was poor, and part of quite a few of the goals

As none of that defense is part of the long term plan, I'm less worried

sanchez will be gone in the next 2 weeks
Dier will be here as cover until his contract runs out
And Reggie will be loaned until his contract ends too
I’ll take that as a positive myself because if we were ok to let these guys go we have improvements in the squad

what I’ll add is… controversial… I’d keep Sanchez now if he can learn to play football under ange (he has already improved but under no pressure)
He would be good pacey cover for Romero if he can maintain the right level of a technical game

 

[elltrev]

sanchez will be gone in the next 2 weeks
Dier will be here as cover until his contract runs out
And Reggie will be loaned until his contract ends too
I’ll take that as a positive myself because if we were ok to let these guys go we have improvements in the squad

what I’ll add is… controversial… I’d keep Sanchez now if he can learn to play football under ange (he has already improved but under no pressure)
He would be good pacey cover for Romero if he can maintain the right level of a technical game

For me, this is the endless cycle with Sanchez though - he often looks like an excellent centre-back, and it's tempting to want to give him a chance - but then he'll inevitably go through a run of fudge-ups. I don't see it being any different this time, even under a different kind of manager. In some ways especially under a manager like Ange, who needs his centre-backs to pass under pressure - one of the situations in which Sanchez's fudge-ups normally arise.

 

[Raziel]

For me, this is the endless cycle with Sanchez though - he often looks like an excellent centre-back, and it's tempting to want to give him a chance - but then he'll inevitably go through a run of fudge-ups. I don't see it being any different this time, even under a different kind of manager. In some ways especially under a manager like Ange, who needs his centre-backs to pass under pressure - one of the situations in which Sanchez's fudge-ups normally arise.

His issue is mentally, a combination of switch off, not at pace of game (first 5 minutes yesterday), or panic prone when under pressure (this can be countered by a quality CB next to him)

I think he genuinely needs a change of environment, right club, right partner and he will do ok.

For us, it's just time to end that era

- Lloris, Sanchez, Dier, Davies, Winks, Lucas are a part of a side that needs to be moved on from

Current expected first 11 -> Vicario, Royal, Romero, VDV, Udogie, Bissouma, Bentancur, Maddison, Son, Kane, Deki, has only two leftovers from the Poch era (the great rebuild complete?)
Even if you put the expected bench -> Forster, Porro, Ashley/New CB, Davies, Sess (?), Skipp, PEH, Perisic, Lo Celso, Solomon, Richarlison, Veliz, would be only two here as well?

 

[Junior19]

As has been pointed out by others, it is so refreshing to see us take our second and third string players with low match fitness, compose a defence of what was our probably third choice pairing of centre backs (who during the day became our fourth/fifth choice due to signings), and go on to play ball around fudgings Barcelona for 65-70 minutes, and to come within inches of winning the game comfortably. We lost the game due to sending on the kids and the rest of the un-matchfit players running out of steam.

Yet, some choose to be glass-half-empty, and to vent gruff about individual players...
Amazing.

How the flying fudge can anyone watch that game yesterday and not be ebullient?
Yes, errors were made. Yes, known weaknesses in certain players were exposed. And yes, certain players who did play well will not be in our squad come end of the transfer window.

But don't you see what this means? In a short few weeks the new gaffer and his staff has managed to create a system and a belief in the squad that for the majority of the game made Dier/Sanchez look like a semi-solid defensive unit in a high-press attacking team! With a leggy midfield and attack in front of them, and a dodgy left back.

(And if certain sections of stupid fudgefaces hadn't ruined our relationship with Sanchez totally previously, he could now suddenly actually have become a decent backup in a system where he could have had some more success. Anyway, that ship has sailed, and he must be off.)

We had Barcelonas wonderkids on the fork, and if this game ment anything at all resultwise, and was not just about getting minutes into the players, we would have brought more of the players from the Shaktar-game and we would have subbed up or equal, rather than down. This game was all about getting as many minutes as possible into Lo Celso, Richarlison, Skipp, Solomon and the other players who are expected to be in or around the first team. All the others were just supporting actors, and they know it. Yet we came so close to not just winning, but winning in style. If that's not Tottenham, then nothing is!

 

[DubSpur]

Lovely to see Spurs play with such belief and style.
And that was our B Team!
We didn't play
Royal Romero VdV Udogie
...Sarr Hojbjerg Maddison
......Kulu Kane Son

Nor Bentancur of course.
And Barca only won it when we were absolutely exhausted/ brought on the C Team kids.

Watch the highlights and pause it when Barca make the incisive move for their goals
#1 Reggie is out of position and doesn't know whether to press or retreat, which causes the goal
#2 Reggie is caught sleeping and a kid makes 15 yards head start on him
#3 Reggie buys a dummy from a kid and tries to get back and pulls his hamstring
#4 Reggie is hobbling on one leg, GHod knows why he wasn't subbed, so he was hopeless

Reggie has to be removed. He is our 4th or 5th choice I think after Udogie Davies Sess and probably VdV too actually.

Don't be ridiculous, the 4 goals were clearly because of Dier.

In fairness to Reggie he was injured for the 4th and couldn't do anything so would only blame him for the first three.