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Nuno Espírito Santo - Sacked

thfcsteff said:
I think I will wait to judge him once he has…

LoCelso, Sanchez, Son, Berwgijn, Dier available again.
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He won’t have all fit at the same me as that rarely happens
But for him to lose such a huge chunk of players and options in a few days is bonkers
People forget that until the players come back the club and therefore the manager don’t know the state of them
I said it in the match thread. Everyone saying he should have started Gil has forgotten he played internationals too. He may have come back knackered and be ok for 30 mins. We as fans don’t know
But…. I do expect to see more of what we will be like as a side come December. By the he will have had every player here for a reasonable period to make his win assessments
Next two games… Chelsea is bye for me. Anything out of that is a bonus
Arsenal is all about the performance. We brick the bed there too often for my liking against bang average sides. No excuses not to turn up for that one
 
Bedfordspurs said:
Shots mean nothing
How many saves has Hugo had to make before yesterday. And I mean saves that actually at he had to make an effort
Yesterday was different of course
Hugo made NO saves of note vs watford. 1 vs Wolves
I actually can’t remember any vs city but sure there will be some
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Unfortunately that doesn't account for team's getting into good positions and then hitting a poor shot that is off target or easy for Lloris to save.

Even if you want to ignore the shots conceded part as irrelevant, surely you have to be worried about the fact that we are creating a serious paucity of chances?
 
BrainOfLevy said:
If you accept Nuno’s strategy is to win the game in the second half, you can understand why yesterday could have gone either way.

I’m not for one second saying that we were good, but I am saying I bet we will have a lot of first halves this season where we look average, where we’re sizing up the other team and keeping them at arms length, and where we win it in the second half.

Yesterday, we just about did the first half plan. Wasn’t amazing, but we go in tied. Then at the point of the game we’re expected to try and push on, make things happen etc the sending off happens. When I say it was just a brick day at the office, that is why.

It’s the opposite of a team intending to blow into a 2-3 goal lead in the first half and rest in the second. If you run out of team after going so hard in the first half and don’t actually score enough, you may well get picked off in the second. The 7-2 vs Bayern being a really good, albeit extreme example (with lots else going on) of that.

That’s why I don’t think we can draw conclusions too harshly. I don’t think Nuno hates creativity, I don’t think he made a bad selection, I don’t think he necessarily could have done much differently yesterday, accepting him for who he is, and accepting all strategies are liable to succeed or fail based on events. It was a brick day at the office, we’ll have many more, but we’ll also have days where luck smiles on us.

And in the main we’ll win more than we lose.
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All well and good other than the fact that we looked even worse in the second half yesterday than we did the first (including while the game was 11 v 11).
 
thfcsteff said:
I think I will wait to judge him once he has…

LoCelso, Sanchez, Son, Berwgijn, Dier available again.
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MKSpur said:
And Romero, Kane and Tanguy!
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Totally fair comments but of those 8 players mentioned I think most would agree that only Kane and Son have performed well in the last 2/3 seasons.

Obviously too early to judge Romero. Dier and Sanchez have started this season well but if we are pinning our attacking play improving on GLC, Bergy and Tanguy I think we are in for some disappointment.

Maybe Nuno can work wonders with them, let's hope so but I think we need to get Gil involved ASAP aswell. He can make a difference I feel.
 
glasgowspur said:
Because we have one of the best strikers in the world who only needs a half chance.
And for all that he was poop yesterday and obviously gives not a toss about us, he is chasing records. As he has been for a year.
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So we have a CF who doesn't give a toss about us playing in front of a team with no creativity.... I still don't see how anyone expected our very best possible result yesterday to be anything other than a lucky nil nil.
 
Finney Is Back said:
Unfortunately that doesn't account for team's getting into good positions and then hitting a poor shot that is off target or easy for Lloris to save.

Even if you want to ignore the shots conceded part as irrelevant, surely you have to be worried about the fact that we are creating a serious paucity of chances?
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two very different issues
Apart from palace we have actually created high quality chances. That’s much better than volume spanking hit and hopes
Palace to me is an anomaly due to the circumstances (players missing, intl break, no training)
If we carry on like palace I will have concerns
If we play with the defensive control we showed vs Wolves I’ll accept it whilst we progress
As I said, Watford keeper made the most saves of any keeper this season. That’s a good sign being ignored. They never really looked like scoring so we did our job there
Wolves again as I’ve said plenty of times created little of note and again we did have the high quality chances.
City was a Rinse and repeat of previous seasons
Palace was poor poor poor.
 
Spoonman said:
Totally fair comments but of those 8 players mentioned I think most would agree that only Kane and Son have performed well in the last 2/3 seasons.

Obviously too early to judge Romero. Dier and Sanchez have started this season well but if we are pinning our attacking play improving on GLC, Bergy and Tanguy I think we are in for some disappointment.

Maybe Nuno can work wonders with them, let's hope so but I think we need to get Gil involved ASAP aswell. He can make a difference I feel.
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Maybe just getting them fit and playing further up the pitch will be key for them
 
Bedfordspurs said:
two very different issues
Apart from palace we have actually created high quality chances. That’s much better than volume spanking hit and hopes
Palace to me is an anomaly due to the circumstances (players missing, intl break, no training)
If we carry on like palace I will have concerns
If we play with the defensive control we showed vs Wolves I’ll accept it whilst we progress
As I said, Watford keeper made the most saves of any keeper this season. That’s a good sign being ignored. They never really looked like scoring so we did our job there
Wolves again as I’ve said plenty of times created little of note and again we did have the high quality chances.
City was a Rinse and repeat of previous seasons
Palace was poor poor poor.
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I'm not sure the stats bare that out.... At present we have the 5th worst XG in the PL. We also have the 6th worst XGA in the league. We may be lucky and outperform our XG over the season but I fear a 'regression to the mean'.
 
Finney Is Back said:
So we have a CF who doesn't give a toss about us playing in front of a team with no creativity.... I still don't see how anyone expected our very best possible result yesterday to be anything other than a lucky nil nil.
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Do palace not also have striker issues? Genuine question, aren't they a team struggling to score?
Best we could have expected was to nick a 1-0, grind it out. And until the zaha incident it looked a reasonable outcome.
Things changed after the fracas, their intensity levels went up and we didn't deal with it well.
 
glasgowspur said:
Do palace not also have striker issues? Genuine question, aren't they a team struggling to score?
Best we could have expected was to nick a 1-0, grind it out. And until the zaha incident it looked a reasonable outcome.
Things changed after the fracas, their intensity levels went up and we didn't deal with it well.
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They had fresh legs
 
Spoonman said:
Totally fair comments but of those 8 players mentioned I think most would agree that only Kane and Son have performed well in the last 2/3 seasons.

Obviously too early to judge Romero. Dier and Sanchez have started this season well but if we are pinning our attacking play improving on GLC, Bergy and Tanguy I think we are in for some disappointment.

Maybe Nuno can work wonders with them, let's hope so but I think we need to get Gil involved ASAP aswell. He can make a difference I feel.
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It was a little tongue in cheek but overall my point is he hasn’t had anything like the full use of the most expensive resources he has been provided or inherited. Like @bedfordspur , if we continue to churn out the Palace performance over 90 minutes, without the caveat of the missing players / limited time to implement his ideas then I’ll be calling for his head too!

I think he deserves some slack for the hand he has been dealt and actually returning 9 points out of 12. We haven’t actually conceded with 11 men in the league which given what was happening at the end of last season could be an important first step before he looks to integrate a more creative midfield with Gil, Ndombele and Lo Celso all offering something different to the 3 he has used so far.

Whilst for me results are the ultimate barometer Levy himself went on record about the new manager and our DNA to play attacking football. It must be part of the longer term target for the manager?
 
Bedfordspurs said:
I’d agree in a normal club
That’s not a normal club set up
How many in world football have an agent buying their players
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Having an agent practically working as a DoF is strange, but In individual cases it's not that uncommon. There are quite a few cases we're the agent is representing all parties, selling club, player and buying club! That itself is outrageous, but nonetheless, the manager will surely be part of the team that decides what type of players they want to sign.
 
Finney Is Back said:
How many of Saturday's Crystal Palace team would you want to have starting for Spurs by the way? Even considering those we had available for Saturday's game?
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Zaha ahead of Moura
Ayew ahead of Dele as LWF
Any of their midfielders ahead of Winks.
Any of their defenders ahead of Davies!

Was impressed with Mitchell too but unfair to judge Emerson on his first game.
Really it was on the ball we lost the initiative and with 11 men I actually thought we defended really well, when you consider the reshuffle that had debutant and academy product, then losing the oft maligned Dier for another relatively ineperienced at prem level cb who hadn’t played all season.

I’d be really disappointed to see a similar line up again though, Dele was ineffective higher up, our midfield had no creativity or power and without Son our lack of goal threat from the right becomes more of a weakness.
 
Kandi1977 said:
Having an agent practically working as a DoF is strange, but In individual cases it's not that uncommon. There are quite a few cases we're the agent is representing all parties, selling club, player and buying club! That itself is outrageous, but nonetheless, the manager will surely be part of the team that decides what type of players they want to sign.
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In a normal club
Wolves have an agent who is a part of the same company that owns the club in affect
 
parklane1 said:
Good to see that there are some fans who are showing sense, instead of all the doom and gloom merchants.
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Absolutely should be given time. I'm not trying to take away from the difficulty of the task he's been handed here both against Palace and earlier this season.
 
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