Next Spurs Manager v.2

[Papercut]

I really don't think Levy nor Tim, expect Tim to the man next season.
It wouldn't surprise me if this has already been agreed between the 2, and the 18 months is just a sweetener.
At the end of this season, Sherwood is found another role at the club, or then has some experience under his belt for a job outside of Spurs.
By not declaring it as a temporary measure, the thinking is that is 'may' bring some stability to the club, and reduce constant speculation as to who's going to be the next man.
Just imo.

I am thinking along these lines too, perhaps they also believe the players will respond differently to a permanent manager than an interim one?

 

[Gutter Boy]

Van Gaal is radically different from our past few managers in almost every conceivable way. He's not a hopeful young 'un fresh off some underdog European success like AVB or Ramos: he's been around the block, is vastly experienced and has won almost everything of note within the game while managing some genuine giants like Barca and Bayern. He's not an 'arm around the shoulder' manager like 'Arry or (apparently) Full-time Tim: he's a disciplinarian, who takes absolutely no nonsense and has no qualms about ripping players apart if they disobey his instructions. And he's not a 'let the players play' man like 'Arry or Jol: his tactical systems are notorious for being intricate and devoted to perfection in even the smallest things.

He's a cantankerous 62 year old with an enormous pedigree, a reputation for being intimidating and hard-nosed and a maniac when it comes to obsessive planning. We've never, ever hired someone like that, and doing so could either revolutionize the club or utterly sink it. For example, what of the players he'll be managing, the likes of Daws, Lennon, Defoe (possibly), Lamela or Eriksen? They've become accustomed to having soft-spoken or motivational types (even with the latter two, under AVB and now Sherwood) who are often more understanding of errors than contemporary managers would be. How would they react to a red-faced Van Gaal blasting an angry tirade their way for failing to make a precisely planned 62-yard-pass in the 37th minute after a precisely clocked 12 minutes of possession play? Actually, scratch that: how would they react to what would presumably be eruptions of molten fury over the mistakes they make on a frequent basis?

If I read our players right, they're not cut out for that, being a bunch of soft, quiet lads. Van Gaal could destroy them. But equally, I may be understimating our players or overestimating Van Gaal's bursts of temper, and in that case having a manager they would undoubtedly respect enormously helping them raise their game could turn them into steely, no-nonsense types as they buy into the manager's vision, which could very well revolutionise the club in the long-run.

Same thing goes for Van Gaal's lack of experience in England: all his life he has managed teams in countries that adhere to certain philosophies of considerable tactical complexity and deeply-held views of how the game should be played: how will this 62 year old adapt to the fast-paced, end-to-end whirlpool of tactical anarchy that is the Premier League? He could adapt very well, of course: you don't win the things he's won and manage the teams he's managed without large amounts of intelligence, adaptability and nous. But equally, he could be chewed up and tossed aside by the unforgiving Premier League like so many talented managers have been over the years, and we would be set even further back.

And both those things are still only two of several major issues that have to be addressed. He blooded youth players well at Bayern: would he be willing to do the same here? How would he get the notoriously fickle English media onside? Would the fans take to his decidedly no-nonsense approach? How would Baldini feel working with him? What would be his gameplan for those crucial first few months: defensive solidity first and foremost, which would mean recieving a barrage of criticism from media outlets angry at this foreigner taking over from free-flowing Tim, or the 'we'll score one more than you' approach, which would bring with it a high risk of bad results (and, by extension, fan discontent)?

So like I said, it could go either way. Lots of doubts will undoubtedly emerge should we appoint a polarising figure like Van Gaal, and thus it has the potential to be either a brilliant or utterly destructive move.

Personally, however, it's far too soon to be writing Tim off, and I'd be happy to return to this at the end of the season. For now, though, I'll do my best to avoid commenting on 'future managers' when we have one working hard to keep his place right here.

Really informative post.

I wonder how far you would have taken your desire to see your club lose GB if you had been a Chelsea fan after they fired AVB and hired Di Matteo. Would it have gone as far as the quarters of the Fa cup and CL? Semis? Final?

I don't know enough about/have an opinion about Di Matteo.

If Freund had been made our caretaker manager for the rest of the season, he'd've had my full support. This is personal about Deadwood.

 

[Lost Mango]

ABC from that list.

 

[indianspur]

LVG managed to make Dembele look a triffic player at AZ

 

[DHSF]

Last week the Dutch press (Telegraaf) were saying that LVG would come in and Sherwood would be his assistant (or be mentored) for 2 years. Either it's balls or the club think a lot of Sherwood, this is a trial and he is being fasttracked for the top job full-time when he has completed the final coaching course. Of course, Van Gaal isn't free until the summer either and Sherwood's contract already had 18 months to run anyway.

I said this a couple of weeks back that - that would be the ideal scenario. LVG isnt exactly a young one anymore. I would question his motivation if he were to come. Thats another matter for if and when he comes

 

[onlyme]

Charlie, Charlie, Tango over.......

Operation 'mug off' Sherwood is underway sir.........

ppppppppppkkkkkkk crackle.... status report....charlie tango

Nothing to add.

 

[braineclipse]

Agree with Danners and DHSF. A solution like that seems close to perfect.

I know there are people here that strongly dislike Sherwood, but if got a couple of seasons as an assistant to someone like LvG surely he has some potential as a manager.

Top notch post from Dubai btw, very informative in deed. I agree it's a bit of a risk, but any appointment we can make would be a bit of a risk.

 

[DHSF]

Really informative post.




I don't know enough about/have an opinion about Di Matteo.

If Freund had been made our caretaker manager for the rest of the season, he'd've had my full support. This is personal about Deadwood.

I still dont get why you hate Sherwood so much - he didnt sleep with the wife did he haha. You have been attacking Sherwood like you know him on a personal level.

 

[onlyme]

I really don't think Levy nor Tim, expect Tim to the man next season.
It wouldn't surprise me if this has already been agreed between the 2, and the 18 months is just a sweetener.
At the end of this season, Sherwood is found another role at the club, or then has some experience under his belt for a job outside of Spurs.
By not declaring it as a temporary measure, the thinking is that is 'may' bring some stability to the club, and reduce constant speculation as to who's going to be the next man.
Just imo.

Tim/Some foreign bloke is the same as Townsend/Some expensive foreign bloke.

Some here want both the formers to flop and will denigrate each and any of their actions.

But the majority are like me who desperately want Sherwood and ALL our players do well and win playing attractive football.

Expect the best but prepare for the worst so LVG is a reasonable back up option.

 

[Gutter Boy]

I said this a couple of weeks back that - that would be the ideal scenario. LVG isnt exactly a young one anymore. I would question his motivation if he were to come. Thats another matter for if and when he comes

LVG is only a year older than Redknapp was when he took over. He could easily do 4-5 years (longer than any manager we've had since Burkinshaw).

I'd much rather he trained up an intelligent progressive coach like Freund as his apprentice, like was the original plan with AVB.

I still dont get why you hate Sherwood so much - he didnt sleep with the wife did he haha. You have been attacking Sherwood like you know him on a personal level.

It's not like he's an unknown factor. He's been at the club in various capacities since 1999. His snidey persona, underhand dealings and stoneage thinking have been apparent for a long time.

 

[chancer]

Van Gaal is radically different from our past few managers in almost every conceivable way. He's not a hopeful young 'un fresh off some underdog European success like AVB or Ramos: he's been around the block, is vastly experienced and has won almost everything of note within the game while managing some genuine giants like Barca and Bayern. He's not an 'arm around the shoulder' manager like 'Arry or (apparently) Full-time Tim: he's a disciplinarian, who takes absolutely no nonsense and has no qualms about ripping players apart if they disobey his instructions. And he's not a 'let the players play' man like 'Arry or Jol: his tactical systems are notorious for being intricate and devoted to perfection in even the smallest things.

He's a cantankerous 62 year old with an enormous pedigree, a reputation for being intimidating and hard-nosed and a maniac when it comes to obsessive planning. We've never, ever hired someone like that, and doing so could either revolutionize the club or utterly sink it. For example, what of the players he'll be managing, the likes of Daws, Lennon, Defoe (possibly), Lamela or Eriksen? They've become accustomed to having soft-spoken or motivational types (even with the latter two, under AVB and now Sherwood) who are often more understanding of errors than contemporary managers would be. How would they react to a red-faced Van Gaal blasting an angry tirade their way for failing to make a precisely planned 62-yard-pass in the 37th minute after a precisely clocked 12 minutes of possession play? Actually, scratch that: how would they react to what would presumably be eruptions of molten fury over the mistakes they make on a frequent basis?

If I read our players right, they're not cut out for that, being a bunch of soft, quiet lads. Van Gaal could destroy them. But equally, I may be understimating our players or overestimating Van Gaal's bursts of temper, and in that case having a manager they would undoubtedly respect enormously helping them raise their game could turn them into steely, no-nonsense types as they buy into the manager's vision, which could very well revolutionise the club in the long-run.

Same thing goes for Van Gaal's lack of experience in England: all his life he has managed teams in countries that adhere to certain philosophies of considerable tactical complexity and deeply-held views of how the game should be played: how will this 62 year old adapt to the fast-paced, end-to-end whirlpool of tactical anarchy that is the Premier League? He could adapt very well, of course: you don't win the things he's won and manage the teams he's managed without large amounts of intelligence, adaptability and nous. But equally, he could be chewed up and tossed aside by the unforgiving Premier League like so many talented managers have been over the years, and we would be set even further back.

And both those things are still only two of several major issues that have to be addressed. He blooded youth players well at Bayern: would he be willing to do the same here? How would he get the notoriously fickle English media onside? Would the fans take to his decidedly no-nonsense approach? How would Baldini feel working with him? What would be his gameplan for those crucial first few months: defensive solidity first and foremost, which would mean recieving a barrage of criticism from media outlets angry at this foreigner taking over from free-flowing Tim, or the 'we'll score one more than you' approach, which would bring with it a high risk of bad results (and, by extension, fan discontent)?

So like I said, it could go either way. Lots of doubts will undoubtedly emerge should we appoint a polarising figure like Van Gaal, and thus it has the potential to be either a brilliant or utterly destructive move.

Personally, however, it's far too soon to be writing Tim off, and I'd be happy to return to this at the end of the season. For now, though, I'll do my best to avoid commenting on 'future managers' when we have one working hard to keep his place right here.

Great post Dubai.

The concerns you highlight - and I grant there are plenty of positives on the other side - really worry me and make me think LvG is not right for Spurs at this time. Something just feels wrong about it.

 

[Nigeyman]

It's not like he's an unknown factor. He's been at the club in various capacities since 1999. His snidey persona, underhand dealings and stoneage thinking have been apparent for a long time.

But he is an unknown factor/inexperienced....which has been the basis of 1 or more of your arguments.

As for the rest that is your personal prejudice.....

 

[Nigeyman]

Van Gaal is radically different from our past few managers in almost every conceivable way. He's not a hopeful young 'un fresh off some underdog European success like AVB or Ramos: he's been around the block, is vastly experienced and has won almost everything of note within the game while managing some genuine giants like Barca and Bayern. He's not an 'arm around the shoulder' manager like 'Arry or (apparently) Full-time Tim: he's a disciplinarian, who takes absolutely no nonsense and has no qualms about ripping players apart if they disobey his instructions. And he's not a 'let the players play' man like 'Arry or Jol: his tactical systems are notorious for being intricate and devoted to perfection in even the smallest things.

He's a cantankerous 62 year old with an enormous pedigree, a reputation for being intimidating and hard-nosed and a maniac when it comes to obsessive planning. We've never, ever hired someone like that, and doing so could either revolutionize the club or utterly sink it. For example, what of the players he'll be managing, the likes of Daws, Lennon, Defoe (possibly), Lamela or Eriksen? They've become accustomed to having soft-spoken or motivational types (even with the latter two, under AVB and now Sherwood) who are often more understanding of errors than contemporary managers would be. How would they react to a red-faced Van Gaal blasting an angry tirade their way for failing to make a precisely planned 62-yard-pass in the 37th minute after a precisely clocked 12 minutes of possession play? Actually, scratch that: how would they react to what would presumably be eruptions of molten fury over the mistakes they make on a frequent basis?

If I read our players right, they're not cut out for that, being a bunch of soft, quiet lads. Van Gaal could destroy them. But equally, I may be understimating our players or overestimating Van Gaal's bursts of temper, and in that case having a manager they would undoubtedly respect enormously helping them raise their game could turn them into steely, no-nonsense types as they buy into the manager's vision, which could very well revolutionise the club in the long-run.

Same thing goes for Van Gaal's lack of experience in England: all his life he has managed teams in countries that adhere to certain philosophies of considerable tactical complexity and deeply-held views of how the game should be played: how will this 62 year old adapt to the fast-paced, end-to-end whirlpool of tactical anarchy that is the Premier League? He could adapt very well, of course: you don't win the things he's won and manage the teams he's managed without large amounts of intelligence, adaptability and nous. But equally, he could be chewed up and tossed aside by the unforgiving Premier League like so many talented managers have been over the years, and we would be set even further back.

And both those things are still only two of several major issues that have to be addressed. He blooded youth players well at Bayern: would he be willing to do the same here? How would he get the notoriously fickle English media onside? Would the fans take to his decidedly no-nonsense approach? How would Baldini feel working with him? What would be his gameplan for those crucial first few months: defensive solidity first and foremost, which would mean recieving a barrage of criticism from media outlets angry at this foreigner taking over from free-flowing Tim, or the 'we'll score one more than you' approach, which would bring with it a high risk of bad results (and, by extension, fan discontent)?

So like I said, it could go either way. Lots of doubts will undoubtedly emerge should we appoint a polarising figure like Van Gaal, and thus it has the potential to be either a brilliant or utterly destructive move.

Personally, however, it's far too soon to be writing Tim off, and I'd be happy to return to this at the end of the season. For now, though, I'll do my best to avoid commenting on 'future managers' when we have one working hard to keep his place right here.

This is the sort of post that makes me love you and want to have your kittens.....

A well thought out BALANCED POST!!! top stuff.

 

[DHSF]

LVG is only a year older than Redknapp was when he took over. He could easily do 4-5 years (longer than any manager we've had since Burkinshaw).

I'd much rather he trained up an intelligent progressive coach like Freund as his apprentice, like was the original plan with AVB.



It's not like he's an unknown factor. He's been at the club in various capacities since 1999. His snidey persona, underhand dealings and stoneage thinking have been apparent for a long time.

In regards to your first point, I didnt know that but there is one crucial difference, LVG has achieved far more than Harry so his motivation may well be dwindled in comparison. I just saw Carew talking about how he didnt have the motivation anymore and was unfair of West Spam - hi slack of motivation was due to West Spam being inferior to his other clubs he has played for etc. LVG could well be the same.

In response to the second point, I think Sherwood seems more apt to be mentored, especially with the rumors that Levy et al highly regard him. All these things you mentioned such as 'underhand dealings', are just rumors. I still have not seen any concrete evidence that he possesses a 'snidey persona'. Where did the 'stoneage thinking' come from? Because he has come in a short space of time and wanted us to play a simple game to get confidence up and to get us some points in the interim?

 

[the dza]

Just out of curiosity, what would a Van Gaal team look like, with our current squad? I'm guessing Dembele would be in it, as he played under him before.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

Van Gaal is radically different from our past few managers in almost every conceivable way. He's not a hopeful young 'un fresh off some underdog European success like AVB or Ramos: he's been around the block, is vastly experienced and has won almost everything of note within the game while managing some genuine giants like Barca and Bayern. He's not an 'arm around the shoulder' manager like 'Arry or (apparently) Full-time Tim: he's a disciplinarian, who takes absolutely no nonsense and has no qualms about ripping players apart if they disobey his instructions. And he's not a 'let the players play' man like 'Arry or Jol: his tactical systems are notorious for being intricate and devoted to perfection in even the smallest things.

He's a cantankerous 62 year old with an enormous pedigree, a reputation for being intimidating and hard-nosed and a maniac when it comes to obsessive planning. We've never, ever hired someone like that, and doing so could either revolutionize the club or utterly sink it. For example, what of the players he'll be managing, the likes of Daws, Lennon, Defoe (possibly), Lamela or Eriksen? They've become accustomed to having soft-spoken or motivational types (even with the latter two, under AVB and now Sherwood) who are often more understanding of errors than contemporary managers would be. How would they react to a red-faced Van Gaal blasting an angry tirade their way for failing to make a precisely planned 62-yard-pass in the 37th minute after a precisely clocked 12 minutes of possession play? Actually, scratch that: how would they react to what would presumably be eruptions of molten fury over the mistakes they make on a frequent basis?

If I read our players right, they're not cut out for that, being a bunch of soft, quiet lads. Van Gaal could destroy them. But equally, I may be understimating our players or overestimating Van Gaal's bursts of temper, and in that case having a manager they would undoubtedly respect enormously helping them raise their game could turn them into steely, no-nonsense types as they buy into the manager's vision, which could very well revolutionise the club in the long-run.

Same thing goes for Van Gaal's lack of experience in England: all his life he has managed teams in countries that adhere to certain philosophies of considerable tactical complexity and deeply-held views of how the game should be played: how will this 62 year old adapt to the fast-paced, end-to-end whirlpool of tactical anarchy that is the Premier League? He could adapt very well, of course: you don't win the things he's won and manage the teams he's managed without large amounts of intelligence, adaptability and nous. But equally, he could be chewed up and tossed aside by the unforgiving Premier League like so many talented managers have been over the years, and we would be set even further back.

And both those things are still only two of several major issues that have to be addressed. He blooded youth players well at Bayern: would he be willing to do the same here? How would he get the notoriously fickle English media onside? Would the fans take to his decidedly no-nonsense approach? How would Baldini feel working with him? What would be his gameplan for those crucial first few months: defensive solidity first and foremost, which would mean recieving a barrage of criticism from media outlets angry at this foreigner taking over from free-flowing Tim, or the 'we'll score one more than you' approach, which would bring with it a high risk of bad results (and, by extension, fan discontent)?

So like I said, it could go either way. Lots of doubts will undoubtedly emerge should we appoint a polarising figure like Van Gaal, and thus it has the potential to be either a brilliant or utterly destructive move.

Personally, however, it's far too soon to be writing Tim off, and I'd be happy to return to this at the end of the season. For now, though, I'll do my best to avoid commenting on 'future managers' when we have one working hard to keep his place right here.

From the extract from Bergkamp's book that was posted on here a few weeks ago, it actually made me think LVG would be a great option, where as before reading it I really didn't care about him.

It was the bit about the type of squad he works with. If it's with a load of young guys who still have everything to learn and everything to win, his management style works well. If it's with players that focus on the team effort rather than showing off as individuals, his style works well. When he's managed some of these players that previously enjoyed working with him in their younger days, when his system allowed them to over-perform and taught them more about the game, now they were experienced internationals themselves and didn't want to neuter themselves by being forced into a system - they thought they knew better at this point in their career. And this is where the clashes happen and where the arguments against LVG's personality come from.

So transferring that to our squad, one of the benefits of building the squad we have done for AVB is that most of them are 'for the team' players rather than individualists. So LVG could come in and work with this squad and I think he would pretty much be perfect for it - he would probably only have to sell Ade and Benny!

Tactically, it's a bit more of a gamble as I think there's an argument to say that 'systems' do less well in the PL because of, as you say, the end to end helter skelter nature. But at least LVG's systems are designed to play football that, when it clicks, is pleasing on the eye. And as Rodgers and Martinez are proving, if their systems are to the liking of the English crowds, they can work well.

I'm all for the appointment of LVG. Not sure where it leaves Sherwood though. If he has got a lot of potential as a future manager of our club then I'm kind of confused as to why we would potentially ruin that by employing him as a stop gap only to have the intention of bringing a bigger name in.

 

[Jordinho]

Just out of curiosity, what would a Van Gaal team look like, with our current squad? I'm guessing Dembele would be in it, as he played under him before.

I think I read a quote once that he wasn't hung up on any particular formation, but I can't find it.

There's this quote from a book on his coaching philosophies:

Soccer is a team sport, and the members of the team are therefore dependent on each other. If certain players do not carry out their tasks properly on the pitch, than their colleagues will suffer. This means that each player has to carry out his basic tasks to the best of his ability, and this requires a disciplined approach on the pitch. In my opinion this can only be achieved if there is also discipline off the pitch.

[video=youtube;7cgAKZkX_yE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cgAKZkX_yE[/video]

I then stumbled upon this powerpoint presentation of his vision for Barcelona. Could this be what he impressed Levy with?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a3zgbaq6qbhgdhv/barcelonaphilosophy1.pptx

 

[Jordinho]

Van Gaal is a strong believer in team building on the pitch. Players need to accept, and carry out, their role (assigned tasks) that the coach (must clearly) give them in order for a team to function properly. Van Gaal was one of the first top level coaches to take notes during a match. Here is his reasoning:

The soccer notebook that I always have with me in the dugout attracts a lot of remarks. For me it’s an extremely valuable aid, so it’s not important what other people think. First I always jot down the collective mistakes that go against pre-planned tactics….Next, I always note down individual mistakes of course. This way I have a logical sequence of aspects about which I can talk to the players during the interval. The chance of forgetting something important is negligible.
In addition I use my notes for the post-match team talk, for other forms of communication with the players, and of course for putting together the drills for the training sessions after the game is over. (p.6)

Van Gaal and his staff are very detail oriented in everything they do. There is constant communication about which drills are appropriate for that day’s training, how to scout players, how to gauge fitness, even going as far as deciding what ball should be used in training.

The Coaching Philosophies of Louis van Gaal and the Ajax Coaches [Henny Kormelink, Tjeu Seeverens]

 

[lurker of old]

Really informative post.
Seconded - thank you DubaiSpur, after all the sterile wrangling on here about AVB and TS, it is fantastic to read something so well-written and informative.
Let's hope you are right and Van Gaal is the man!

 

[veron23]

LVG is not a bad manager by any stretch. however its still a risk.

1) he is very set in his ways football wise and personable wise.
e.g wants players to fit into his formation rather than base his formation around what hes got. sometimes its worked (schweinsteiger moved from full back to mid) sometimes it hasn't (insisting on using rivaldo as a winger)

2) many big name players have turned against him

3) he admitted he left the dutch national team the first time because players rejected his methods

4) his main reputation comes from his days at ajax. with players like davids, seedorf, overmars, de boers etc its a lot easier to implement his style with such versatile (and young) players.

5) i fear players like lamela (our biggest potential/talent) will suffer under his strict approach rather than having a arry type arm around his shoulder which is what he needs

pros are

1) hes still an innovator and is responsible for many great philosophies used by mourinho, guardiola, frank de boer and bielsa

2) we dont have any established players (other than ade) so they probably won't oppose him and will fully run with his ideas creating a unit/team with purpose on the pitch
we are a young team and he could see this as an opportunity to create ajax all over again.

3) hes better than what we got.


(in my opinion FDB is a younger more open minded version of LVG and we need to do all we can to get him)