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Next Manager?

RigorMortis said:
He won two trophies in Portugal, one was the charity shield equivalent with Porto and the other was a cup with Braga. The rest were in Ukraine, if he were to take over Spurs at the time Poch was taking over you could make a case that they were on par but not now.

look I’d love the guy to succeed, but given his records and the constraints he will work under with our ownership, I genuinely don’t see it.
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If our options are Fonseca, Ten Hag, Lopetegui and Potter, is there really much between them? Personally I'd prefer Lopetegui of the four, but the margins on all of them aren't that great.

Once we missed out on Nagglesman and Poch, we were always going to be shopping in the 'potential next Poch' market.
 
RigorMortis said:
He won two trophies in Portugal, one was the charity shield equivalent with Porto and the other was a cup with Braga. The rest were in Ukraine, if he were to take over Spurs at the time Poch was taking over you could make a case that they were on par but not now.

look I’d love the guy to succeed, but given his records and the constraints he will work under with our ownership, I genuinely don’t see it.
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So in Portugal he has won the same as Poch has won in France … except Poch is managed the super doped PSG and he won’t a trophy for the first time in history for Braga

I’m not trying to dismiss Poch, but this guy has done more in the game in reality
 
Yiddo said:
I find it funny how a fan base from a team who have not won a trophy in 13 years and who have not been consistently successful for over 40 years can judge a manager by what he has won and demand the best.
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Careful, careful, reality hurts when the entitlement is high.
 
scaramanga said:
Let's apply worst case scenario.

Let's assume that those fans were somehow duped into renewing season tickets they otherwise might not have, or bought a shirt they hadn't planned to.

That means more money to the club, that's better for the club and increases our chances of winning stuff.
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I actually made this point a few days ago - I was surprised someone wasn't trying to apply the positive take for the club on it that you just did. Instead a few people thought the club leveraging the media to their own ends was too much of an egregious thought to comprehend.

But problem with it though, was that the club was trying to appear more ambitious than it actually was. I think if we were able to sign Conte, it means we're pushing for the title. That's our standing in the game at that point. He joins to do that. We sign Fons, and I think we're competing for the top 4. I'm fine with that, short of ENIC selling I know that's realistic. But my problem is we are led to believe we are more ambitious, that big things are happening, that things are about to change, and actually...it wasn't. And I think with respect to ENIC, I think they benefit from being seen to be more ambitious than they actually are, not just in terms of increased engagement and revenue for the club, but in the idea among the fanbase that things are going about as well as could be expected under them, and that they really do want more for us.

And I think it's ok that as fans we can say 'that's not cool what you did there'.
 
Bedfordspurs said:
So in Portugal he has won the same as Poch has won in France … except Poch is managed the super doped PSG and he won’t a trophy for the first time in history for Braga

I’m not trying to dismiss Poch, but this guy has done more in the game in reality
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I can’t see in anyway how Poch and Fonseca can be considered as on par, Poch really achieved miracles with us on the budget we had. Winning Braga’s first trophy plus the Ukrainian league does not compare.

on that note you would have to concede Michael Laudrup ( league cup with Swansea), Martinez ( da cup with Wigan) and Redknapp ( fa cup with Pompey) are stronger managers than Poch
 
RigorMortis said:
He won two trophies in Portugal, one was the charity shield equivalent with Porto and the other was a cup with Braga. The rest were in Ukraine, if he were to take over Spurs at the time Poch was taking over you could make a case that they were on par but not now.

look I’d love the guy to succeed, but given his records and the constraints he will work under with our ownership, I genuinely don’t see it.
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I think the fact that he can work under constraints, and work to improve players rather than being a coach that expects players to take personal responsibility means he will be good for us. And he's gone deep in European competition which is more than Poch had when he joined.

I think Fons will be fine for us. We probably won't win the league, but I can see us getting a top 4 finish in at least one of his seasons if things go well. Which will be better than what we've had the last 2 years.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I actually made this point a few days ago - I was surprised someone wasn't trying to apply the positive take for the club on it that you just did. Instead a few people thought the club leveraging the media to their own ends was too much of an egregious thought to comprehend.

But problem with it though, was that the club was trying to appear more ambitious than it actually was. I think if we were able to sign Conte, it means we're pushing for the title. That's our standing in the game at that point. He joins to do that. We sign Fons, and I think we're competing for the top 4. I'm fine with that, short of ENIC selling I know that's realistic. But my problem is we are led to believe we are more ambitious, that big things are happening, that things are about to change, and actually...it wasn't. And I think with respect to ENIC, I think they benefit from being seen to be more ambitious than they actually are, not just in terms of increased engagement and revenue for the club, but in the idea among the fanbase that things are going about as well as could be expected under them, and that they really do want more for us.

And I think it's ok that as fans we can say 'that's not cool what you did there'.
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So the worst that the club may have done (but possibly didn't) is hurt the feelings of some people who felt that way due to believing rumours in the press?

That's not even a storm in a teacup, it's a breeze in a thimble.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
I actually made this point a few days ago - I was surprised someone wasn't trying to apply the positive take for the club on it that you just did. Instead a few people thought the club leveraging the media to their own ends was too much of an egregious thought to comprehend.

But problem with it though, was that the club was trying to appear more ambitious than it actually was. I think if we were able to sign Conte, it means we're pushing for the title. That's our standing in the game at that point. He joins to do that. We sign Fons, and I think we're competing for the top 4. I'm fine with that, short of ENIC selling I know that's realistic. But my problem is we are led to believe we are more ambitious, that big things are happening, that things are about to change, and actually...it wasn't. And I think with respect to ENIC, I think they benefit from being seen to be more ambitious than they actually are, not just in terms of increased engagement and revenue for the club, but in the idea among the fanbase that things are going about as well as could be expected under them, and that they really do want more for us.

And I think it's ok that as fans we can say 'that's not cool what you did there'.
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But there is a lot of nuance in your argument

- We were talking to Conte, he himself has confirmed that, we spent some significant time/effort in that pursuit
- I don't think even you believe the club entered into that conversation believing there was no chance of it actually happening
- Your concern if I get it right is the club either leaked or leveraged the conversation for better PR while the deal was far from done.
- I actually think Fonseca/ETH is exactly the level manager Levy described in his end of season statement. The confusion comes from people not accepting regardless of who our original target was, if certain managers suddenly became available, we had an obligation to look at them (Conte, Poch) regardless of how that seemed to go away from DNA strategy.

Like @scaramanga said, I'd be skeptical at the actually monetary impact of "appearing ambitious" over any period of time, I'd argue in this case it's been the opposite, the potential of Conte/Poch has created a backlash at a manger that potentially is a decent option.
 
RigorMortis said:
I can’t see in anyway how Poch and Fonseca can be considered as on par, Poch really achieved miracles with us on the budget we had. Winning Braga’s first trophy plus the Ukrainian league does not compare.

on that note you would have to concede Michael Laudrup ( league cup with Swansea), Martinez ( da cup with Wigan) and Redknapp ( fa cup with Pompey) are stronger managers than Poch
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Well… they won trophies we as a club didn’t
And your belittling achievements whilst referencing budgets. It’s a bit hypocritical
Braga winning the cup would have been a massive achievement for them. Their not a big budget size. By comparison, Poch frost ever trophy wins have come at PSG in a financially doped side. I don’t believe Fonseca has left a side bottom of the table either (I’d have to check)

so how else do you compare managers?
Surely you have to look at how they compared with similar resources, and Fonseca has done better on that front (unless your gonna tell me their the Portuguese equivalent of Spurs)
 
Yiddo said:
I find it funny how a fan base from a team who have not won a trophy in 13 years and who have not been consistently successful for over 40 years can judge a manager by what he has won and demand the best.
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Well beggars can’t be choosers
They can just be choosy
And then complain when what they want ain’t what they have chosen
 
So he travels at the weekend or early next week. Self-isolation and two tests = 5 days? And same for Levy, who's in the Bahamas. So an "unveiling" (have we employed a statue?) towards the end of next week?
Unless we're going to be the first club to record and circulate a recorded Zoom conference call manager-contract-signing event.
 
Interesting if Fonseca, seems he's parted ways from his traditional training staff, so will be getting new options there as well.
 
scaramanga said:
So the worst that the club may have done (but possibly didn't) is hurt the feelings of some people who felt that way due to believing rumours in the press?

That's not even a storm in a teacup, it's a breeze in a thimble.
Click to expand...

You would think in this day and age with all the flimflam media outlets that sane fans would have given up believing what they read in the press. Just goes to show that there are still s ome who fall for the flimflam.
 
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