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Next Manager?

AdamB said:
wow! Each to his own. I really dont rate Martinez - was rubbish at Everton and has had an incredibly talented squad with Belgium (de Bruyne, Hazard, Courtois, TOby, Jan, Kompany, etc) and really not go the most out of them at all
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I personally think that being a national manager is very difficult when having a squad of players from different leagues, different standards and different philosophies. Germany and Spain were successful due to most of their players playing for the big teams with a similar philosophy (Bayern, Real Madrid, Barca) and the rest of the players playing for the biggest clubs in England with also a similar philosophy.

They have 2 weeks to try and implement their style of play and when you have players like England have, you have players from United, City, West Ham, Burnley etc etc. Same with Belgium. Matt Doherty is a prime example of not fitting to a system and he has had a whole season to adapt and is still clueless.
 
Yiddo said:
I personally think that being a national manager is very difficult when having a squad of players from different leagues, different standards and different philosophies. Germany and Spain were successful due to most of their players playing for the big teams with a similar philosophy (Bayern, Real Madrid, Barca) and the rest of the players playing for the biggest clubs in England with also a similar philosophy.

They have 2 weeks to try and implement their style of play and when you have players like England have, you have players from United, City, West Ham, Burnley etc etc. Same with Belgium. Matt Doherty is a prime example of not fitting to a system and he has had a whole season to adapt and is still clueless.
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If Matt Doherty is in your reasoning for getting Martinez in ... insert face palm emoji.
 
parklane1 said:
Great post mate ( you should post more often) i would not worry too much about what Dubai says about Levy as he is a broken record when it come to our chairman. I am sure he must have kicked his dog at some time.
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I'd love to but the new thread per person/player thing we do here makes it hard to keep up - I preferred the old setup where we just randomly chatted and you could join in and out easily.
 
Surfless said:
I'd love to but the new thread per person/player thing we do here makes it hard to keep up - I preferred the old setup where we just randomly chatted and you could join in and out easily.
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Click on New Posts, rather than Forums etc., and it tells you who's posted something new and what thread.
 
Martinez? christ i thought it was bad Chelsea cast-offs, let alone Everton ones.

it's amazing how consistent we are at picking inconsistent managers. this has hampered our team structure and development massively. Ramos to Redknapp to AVB, to Sherwood, to Poch, to Jose. Each manager a complete different choice to his predecssor, never any consistency to build upon the team and make tweaks, instead requiring wholesale changes each and every time.

no idea who we are to bring in, but it has to be someone who has evidenced they have a coaching pedigree like Potter, who can improve talent like Poch did.
 
Raziel said:
Poch had a job, he had been "fired" but he was still being paid very well, so other than a top job he was actually likely to earn less (hence he didn't)

Listen mate we disagree, you think it's about people planning careers and waiting for the perfect move and worrying about 5 years from now, I'm telling you my opinion is 90% of it is purely about the money. I've given you data that says Everton was a step down in profile for Ancelotti but probably an increase in money over previous gigs.
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I would imagine that the first question Ancelotti asked when Everton indicated that they were prepared to meet his salary demands was 'how much money will I have to spend in the transfer market. The second question was probably 'how much of an increase on the wage bill will be allowed?'. I suspect the answers of 'lots' and 'lots' were decent factors in him taking the job as he knew he had a chance of competing.
 
Diamond Lights said:
Martinez? christ i thought it was bad Chelsea cast-offs, let alone Everton ones.

it's amazing how consistent we are at picking inconsistent managers. this has hampered our team structure and development massively. Ramos to Redknapp to AVB, to Sherwood, to Poch, to Jose. Each manager a complete different choice to his predecssor, never any consistency to build upon the team and make tweaks, instead requiring wholesale changes each and every time.

no idea who we are to bring in, but it has to be someone who has evidenced they have a coaching pedigree like Potter, who can improve talent like Poch did.
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I really hope the Martinez link is flimflam, really never seen anything from him that says he could improve Spurs
 
Mikey10 said:
Well, we do know that Parker has managed Fulham into relegation at his first attempt.
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Agreed. The idea that we would go for Parker is ridiculous. Always seemed like a good pro, and obviously an ex-players, but really, what has he done to earn the Spurs job?!? As you say, he's taken Fulham down and whilst their squad isn't great, its not as if he's done better than expected there
 
Raziel said:
Poch had a job, he had been "fired" but he was still being paid very well, so other than a top job he was actually likely to earn less (hence he didn't)

Listen mate we disagree, you think it's about people planning careers and waiting for the perfect move and worrying about 5 years from now, I'm telling you my opinion is 90% of it is purely about the money. I've given you data that says Everton was a step down in profile for Ancelotti but probably an increase in money over previous gigs.
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But that data is irrelevant to the discussion - I'm not arguing Everton weren't able to afford Ancelotti, I'm saying Ancelotti has already banked his reputation. Like Jose, his record is trophies near enough everywhere he has been, so he can credibly argue that he hasn't failed with the biggest clubs, and can command a high salary.

This is completely different from the realistic managerial targets we are talking about here, who will be viewing Spurs through the context of what it means for the rest of their careers. These are the ones that don't have Ancelotti's past to secure them another top job on a top salary. A Potter needs to be pretty sure he can be seen to have succeeded at Spurs, so does ETH.

And I think what we might be running in to is that there aren't a big enough pool of managers that represent a real step up for us as a club, that also view Spurs as enough of a step up and likely success story for them. I think Nagelsmann can to go Bayern because he can see they will continue to invest and he knows he will succeed. I think ETH may be looking at us and thinking that it isn't obvious what our path to success is - if he gets us 4th, it just puts us back on a par we were on 2 years ago. Does that get him a top job in the future? Are we going to invest to actually be a title challenging club that he could do something with? Are we even going to invest to make 4th more likely? I think these are the questions certain managerial candidates are asking us, and I don't know that we have the answers. Hence Potter and Martinez.

I still don't understand why the concept of relatively young managers who aspire to be on the merry go round of the top clubs would plan their careers to get there is so weird to you. Ancelotti has already been there - it doesn't matter to him, he can take the money anywhere. For a Potter, or a ETH, they will be looking for some level of certainty that they can be seen to make a meaningful impact at Spurs and be seen to be successful. If not, I think they may stick it out and wait for a better opportunity.
 
FWIW I don't mind the idea of Martinez. His first season at Everton was 72 points. He's then managed some bigger names with Belgium, and I think his tactical flexibility was always pretty interesting. We need something to help us compete if we are going to be on a weaker financial footing, so maybe that can be it.

I don't really understand what happened in the second season at Everton, while it all seemed to come apart. I remember reading the players were unhappy with how he organises a defence...but I'm sure Martinez's point would be that he wanted to control the ball better. Would be interested in some long reads on that situation.
 
Robbo said:
I dreamt last night that this thread was 264 pages long and that we were closing in on a manager with an Italian sounding name I'd never heard of. That's as close to ITK you'll get from me.
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That is better then most of the ITK that keeps being posted.:)
 
Mr Gogolak said:
Ir.

He's been gone for less than two years. I don't think many people will argue that he wasn't our best manager in the Premier League era but I really can't understand that cult-like meteorology when it comes to Pochettino. He was a perfect match for us at some point in our history but it's time to move on. People need to take a step back : he's no Cruyff or Sacchi, let alone GHod's gift to football, his results with PSG show that much. I'd rather look for the next Pochettino than bring the old one back.
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Could not agree more, he was great for us but we still failed at the final hurdle and i can not see him doing it now. Having said that we will not/do not know if another manager can but i rather see a new manager and see what he can do.
 
BrainOfLevy said:
FWIW I don't mind the idea of Martinez. His first season at Everton was 72 points. He's then managed some bigger names with Belgium, and I think his tactical flexibility was always pretty interesting. We need something to help us compete if we are going to be on a weaker financial footing, so maybe that can be it.

I don't really understand what happened in the second season at Everton, while it all seemed to come apart. I remember reading the players were unhappy with how he organises a defence...but I'm sure Martinez's point would be that he wanted to control the ball better. Would be interested in some long reads on that situation.
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why read anything? what has he done with Belgium? one of the most talented/stacked squads in international football in decades
 
Raziel said:
why read anything? what has he done with Belgium? one of the most talented/stacked squads in international football in decades
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3rd place in the WC is pretty decent? France were also stacked.

I always start from the point that managers who get alignment and buy-in across a club tend to do pretty well, rather than them being miracle workers in their own right. I want to read what went wrong at Everton, because the first season was good - he got them away from a pragmatic Moyes style and into playing a possession based game, and did it in one season to get 72 points, a record for them.

Then they had Europa League, and League form suffered. Maybe the squad was good but not deep? Maybe he lost a crucial cog? Maybe his relentless positivity made the players unsure of him and maybe he has learned from those times, knows how to adapt his system, knows how to modulate his thinking?

I think he's interesting. He's clearly a smart guy, and maybe he has taken something from working with Belgium that he didn't have at Everton. I think if we hired him it would be a massive indictment of the poor football decisions Levy has made over the last 2 years, and clearly the lack of plan they have to attract a top candidate going forward, but as far as realistic options go, I'm somewhat intrigued. He will still be a risk for sure, which is why I say it will call into question the ENIC moves (why someone who is seen to fail at Everton be the person we end up with after deciding Poch had lost it...) but there's something about it I don't actually mind.

I think real top managers have a charisma and get top players believing in what they do. Martinez seemed to lose it at Everton...maybe he gained something back / learnt something with Belgium. Can people change fundamental parts of their character? That to me would be part of the question around Martinez. But I'm intrigued as far as our seeming realistic options go.
 
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