Next Manager?

[Gutter Boy]

I read that as: have moved from long-list to short-list stage, no one has any idea who is on it, here's a summary of the last few weeks of speculation.

 

[AdamB]

If its Rodgers I can see us becoming a top 4 team again possibly more.

With Potter I see us more becoming a team that ends between 5th to 7th.

I think thats a little harsh on Potter - I don't see why his ceiling is as high. He's just more risky that Rodgers given he hasnt had the chance to prove himself as much yet

 

[Finney Is Back]

Poch is absolutely head and shoulders ahead of any other candidate in the field. Let's just all forget the last 20 months and reset as if it was August 2019 again.

Poch would be mad to come back without some absolute guarantees from Levy (just assurances wouldn't be good enough).

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think it was just a straightforward case of burnout.

Emotionally-driven leaders like Poch are more susceptible to it, as they tend to personally take on the burdens of their teams, as well as their own. He had the same burnout experience at espanyol, which I think was mainly down to carrying the emotional burden of the jarque death. Our corresponding 'trauma' was I guess the CL final

I think it was more than that. I think he was frustrated with being taken for granted. He knew how close we were to doing something that was almost impossible in the modern game. If PSG fired Pochettino and Levy offered him the job I think Poch would probably turn it down as without everyone on the whole football side of things being on the same page we're destined to fail. I didn't see the evidence under Mourinho that we'd learnt anything here (especially with outgoings).

 

[AdamB]

Poch would be mad to come back without some absolute guarantees from Levy (just assurances wouldn't be good enough).

If Poch was fired before we had the next manager appointed (and thats probably only 10%-20% chance say), I'd be surprised if Levy and Poch didnt have a conversation. There's no way which Levy could provide guarantees though

 

[Finney Is Back]

Mate, first of all, if you were a manager candidate offered a top 6 (high profile) PL club in London being paid millions (probably in top 10 salary range of manager in Europe)

You would fudging take it, this idea that Spurs is unattractive because it might not work out, nobody fudging cares, as Ancelotti said "I've been fired from every job I've ever had"

Top level candidates will have some leverage (that's why a Potter/Parker is unattractive to me) based on a plan, i.e.

- Here's how I'm going to setup up the team (here's my analysis of current team) and here's what we need transfer window 1/2/etc.

That depends where he is coming from. If you are a highly rated manager then Spurs could be a graveyard for you. For a manager like Ancelotti (or Mourinho) it is entirely different. Their reputation is already ingrained from years of winning. If I was a Nagelsmann or Ten Haag or even a Brenden Rodgers right now I wouldn't be taking the Spurs job unless I had some real cast iron guarantees from the chairman.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think Levy/ENIC often didn't 'step-up' in terms of 'being brave', 'acting like a big club' at the right times, However, Poch wasn't blameless in some of the things that went wrong; for example it was HE who pushed for us to sign Janssen and then underused him when he didn't need to (see games where Kane had already bagged early hatricks etc and he didn't give Janssen and others gametime when the games had been won).
I also think he was incredibly naive in his dealings with Levy/ENIC: him signing that contract extension in 2018 BEFORE seeing how Levy/ENIC would operate in the market after him publicly telling them to change their ways was probably one of his most stupid moves with us and was likely the catalyst for the likes of Eriksen thinking about not staying (broken promises, all talk but same old etc).

Poch coming back wont really change much imo and he really needs to steer clear of us (and atm us him)

From what I heard from somebody involved in the coaching set up at Spurs Pochettino didn't think that Janssen was professional with his fitness levels.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Interesting. Seems like it’s Rodgers, Potter. Martinez, Parker, Poch.

Poch being a long shot, but they’re probably open to seeing how he is treated at the end of the season. Parker will have a chance to impress but if relegated, difficult to see.

Seems to me like a pretty horrific bit of planning to pay money to get rid of Pochettino in 2019 to appoint one of Rodgers, Potter, Martinez or Parker in 2021. Would any of those be on the shortlist for any of the big clubs around Europe?

 

[AdamB]

That depends where he is coming from. If you are a highly rated manager then Spurs could be a graveyard for you. For a manager like Ancelotti (or Mourinho) it is entirely different. Their reputation is already ingrained from years of winning. If I was a Nagelsmann or Ten Haag or even a Brenden Rodgers right now I wouldn't be taking the Spurs job unless I had some real cast iron guarantees from the chairman.

I think you're right about Nagelsmann, but not sure about Ten Hag or Rodgers. If they came to Spurs and failed they'd still be in the running for as big jobs afterwards as they are now IMO. If they came and succeeded they could step up again

Seems to me like a pretty horrific bit of planning to pay money to get rid of Pochettino in 2019 to appoint one of Rodgers, Potter, Martinez or Parker in 2021. Would any of those be on the shortlist for any of the big clubs around Europe?

I dont think there's any value in doing the 'why Poch was sacked' arguments again, or the merits of the Mourinho gamble.

Can only go on where we are now - Rodgers, Potter, Poch (if available) seem to be the names. I'd hope that we think about about Martinez or Parker

 

[BrainOfLevy]

That depends where he is coming from. If you are a highly rated manager then Spurs could be a graveyard for you. For a manager like Ancelotti (or Mourinho) it is entirely different. Their reputation is already ingrained from years of winning. If I was a Nagelsmann or Ten Haag or even a Brenden Rodgers right now I wouldn't be taking the Spurs job unless I had some real cast iron guarantees from the chairman.

I agree with you here, and this develops into why I think Poch went and why he probably wouldn’t come back immediately (unless his emotions got the better of him / Levy made some genuine changes to his approach.)

I think if we are seen as about to really step forward and challenge City (as we were doing only 3 years ago) then I think we sign ETH or Rodgers, easy. If the approach is the same ENIC approach where what Levy says goes because they aren’t going to push the envelope more than they already do, then I think the best we can do is Potter.

 

[Raziel]

I love the narrative on this board

- Spurs paid Poch £8.5M/yr, Jose closer to £15M
- Rodgers started his salary at £5M at Leicester, his "new" deal which doubled his salary got him to £10M
- Eight PL managers earn less than £5M a year
- Potter supposedly earns £1M
- Steve Bruce earns £2.75M
- Moyes earns £3M
- Nuno earns £4M
- OGS earns £7.8M
- Ancelotti is £11M
- Only Klopp and Pep earn more than Jose was earning at Spurs

Who isn't going to take 50% increase, 2X or 3X salary?

Every manager fails at every club, it's just how long, hence it is all about the money and we can pay.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I think you're right about Nagelsmann, but not sure about Ten Hag or Rodgers. If they came to Spurs and failed they'd still be in the running for as big jobs afterwards as they are now IMO. If they came and succeeded they could step up again



I dont think there's any value in doing the 'why Poch was sacked' arguments again, or the merits of the Mourinho gamble.

Can only go on where we are now - Rodgers, Potter, Poch (if available) seem to be the names. I'd hope that we think about about Martinez or Parker

I think if I was ETH or Rodgers, and I didn’t get the assurances from Levy that we would do what it takes to push on, I wouldn’t join.

The reason is, if you’re successful, there should be no job that you can go to. Maybe Real Madrid at a push, but actually not even them. If we are genuinely a top club in the PL, competing for the biggest trophies, paying good money and signing the best players, no one needs to move.

So Rodgers and ETH need to believe they are going to join a top club by coming to us. Because if they feel they will join and be sacked if we don’t get CL, they definitely don’t get the top jobs. I don’t think they get sacked by Spurs and get the Liverpool or Chelsea jobs if they become available.

 

[BrainOfLevy]

I love the narrative on this board

- Spurs paid Poch £8.5M/yr, Jose closer to £15M
- Rodgers started his salary at £5M at Leicester, his "new" deal which doubled his salary got him to £10M
- Eight PL managers earn less than £5M a year
- Potter supposedly earns £1M
- Steve Bruce earns £2.75M
- Moyes earns £3M
- Nuno earns £4M
- OGS earns £7.8M
- Ancelotti is £11M
- Only Klopp and Pep earn more than Jose was earning at Spurs

Who isn't going to take 50% increase, 2X or 3X salary?

Every manager fails at every club, it's just how long, hence it is all about the money and we can pay.

I almost entirely agree with the point you are making with respect to ETH. Why would he not take a much higher salary? Not withstanding the jump in quality to the PL and everything that goes with it?

I think some managers will be smart around where they want to be long term. Some don’t want to flame out, some want to elevate to the top table. Poch elevated to the top table with us. Rodgers was actually smart when Liverpool approached him, he set his stall out around what he needed, and didn’t just jump at the opportunity immediately. He made sure they were ready for him.

But you can just as easily end up like Ramos or AVB after a couple of bad moves. AVB was on an absolute rocket. Failed with Chelsea, seen as failing with us, now in France via Russia. Similar trajectory to Ramos. These managers may have gotten better jobs, or managed their careers better, if they’d made the right moves.

No doubt we are an attractive job for 100s of managers worldwide. The point is, the cross section between interest in our job and our interest in them, that narrows it down significantly. It’s in these margins where the right decision will be made, and it’s not at all obvious that our first preference jumps at our job.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I love the narrative on this board

- Spurs paid Poch £8.5M/yr, Jose closer to £15M
- Rodgers started his salary at £5M at Leicester, his "new" deal which doubled his salary got him to £10M
- Eight PL managers earn less than £5M a year
- Potter supposedly earns £1M
- Steve Bruce earns £2.75M
- Moyes earns £3M
- Nuno earns £4M
- OGS earns £7.8M
- Ancelotti is £11M
- Only Klopp and Pep earn more than Jose was earning at Spurs

Who isn't going to take 50% increase, 2X or 3X salary?

Every manager fails at every club, it's just how long, hence it is all about the money and we can pay.

That list really does emphasise just how much money we threw away on Mourinho eh?

Any of those bolded would jump at the chance to manage Spurs. The problem is that the chairman has got us to a point where some of those bolded names actually look attractive to us!

 

[Diamond Lights]

i think some are being harsh on Potter, he may not be as good as Rodgers, it's really an unknown. Dont forget many had the hump we brought in Poch over Louis Van Gaal...

I don't like Rodgers as a person, but he is clearly a stand out candidate. what worries me moreso, is that Leicester faltering again, and i believe they had a poor run end of last season too.

The issue is, no one stands out.

Lastly, interesting in the Alistair Gold piece he doesn't mention Lopetegui who popped up out of nowhere last week.

 

[Raziel]

I almost entirely agree with the point you are making with respect to ETH. Why would he not take a much higher salary? Not withstanding the jump in quality to the PL and everything that goes with it?

I think some managers will be smart around where they want to be long term. Some don’t want to flame out, some want to elevate to the top table. Poch elevated to the top table with us. Rodgers was actually smart when Liverpool approached him, he set his stall out around what he needed, and didn’t just jump at the opportunity immediately. He made sure they were ready for him.

But you can just as easily end up like Ramos or AVB after a couple of bad moves. AVB was on an absolute rocket. Failed with Chelsea, seen as failing with us, now in France via Russia. Similar trajectory to Ramos. These managers may have gotten better jobs, or managed their careers better, if they’d made the right moves.

No doubt we are an attractive job for 100s of managers worldwide. The point is, the cross section between interest in our job and our interest in them, that narrows it down significantly. It’s in these margins where the right decision will be made, and it’s not at all obvious that our first preference jumps at our job.

I get it, but the main point is

- All but two managers in the UK would get a £4M+/yr increase in salary

If you don't want a top job (where you will earn £4M-£10M/yr more than current salary) because you are afraid you will fail, you are already the wrong candidate

Your point emphasizes the issue, when your career is at the point where you are a target for a top club, you take it because 2 years from now circumstances might change (and you would no longer be the flavour of the week)

 

[Finney Is Back]

i think some are being harsh on Potter, he may not be as good as Rodgers, it's really an unknown. Dont forget many had the hump we brought in Poch over Louis Van Gaal...

I don't like Rodgers as a person, but he is clearly a stand out candidate. what worries me moreso, is that Leicester faltering again, and i believe they had a poor run end of last season too.

The issue is, no one stands out.

Lastly, interesting in the Alistair Gold piece he doesn't mention Lopetegui who popped up out of nowhere last week.

I think that was my fault (well my Dad's fault) mate

 

[Finney Is Back]

I get it, but the main point is

- All but two managers in the UK would get a £4M+/yr increase in salary

If you don't want a top job (where you will earn £4M-£10M/yr more than current salary) because you are afraid you will fail, you are already the wrong candidate

Your point emphasizes the issue, when your career is at the point where you are a target for a top club, you take it because 2 years from now circumstances might change (and you would no longer be the flavour of the week)

Maybe those promising candidates would rather wait it out until a big club comes in for them than take the intermediate step with us? Though in the case of most of those in your list above big clubs wouldn't actually go in for them anyway....

 

[Raziel]

Maybe those promising candidates would rather wait it out until a big club comes in for them than take the intermediate step with us? Though in the case of most of those in your list above big clubs wouldn't actually go in for them anyway....

My list isn't a candidate list, my list was a reference to what managers are paid in the richest league in the world.

Someone can do the homework, but I'd assume the story is similar if compared to other European Leagues

 

[Mcfee]

I think that was my fault (well my Dad's fault) mate

Even if AG didn’t mention Lopetegui it doesn’t mean we’re not interested. Sevilla are still in with a chance (albeit outside) of winning the league and given the uproar when he was announced as Real Madrid’s new manager while still in the Spain job he’d probably like to keep his name out of any speculation for now.