New Striker or New Stadium?

[braineclipse]

As I just posted above, I suspect an element of fear amongst us, that if we don't qualify again soon, it may all be too late.

Too late in what way? There will always be another season...

Since the one who shouldn't be mentioned we've never sold a star player on the cheap. In fact most clubs in the world know by now that if they want one of our star players they better be willing to pay up. That doesn't change at all with CL participation or not.

Since Levy we have always kept our wages under control. Chances of us collapsing seem small.

Why would we all of a sudden run out of chances to qualify?

 

[Modric THFC]

If we won the league we might stand a chance of signing that level of player. :lol:

If we were willing to pay 200k a week in wages to one special striker he would be tempted to come here.

Our issue with strikers is they are overpriced in comparison to other players and Levy isn't prepared to pay the new going rate.
So we compete with the best clubs in the world in buying top midfielders, defenders and keepers but when it comes to strikers we aren't willing to compete happy to pick up whatever's left.

 

[Pirate55]

Too late in what way? There will always be another season...

Since the one who shouldn't be mentioned we've never sold a star player on the cheap. In fact most clubs in the world know by now that if they want one of our star players they better be willing to pay up. That doesn't change at all with CL participation or not.

Since Levy we have always kept our wages under control. Chances of us collapsing seem small.

Why would we all of a sudden run out of chances to qualify?

You answered your own question earlier on. The big spenders have already have big stadiums - plus they have CL - AND in Chelsea and City's cases big sponduliks. So do Man Ure.

We will always play second fiddle to them unless we can get a team to break into the top four. A stadium wont help us in that respect - top players will.

 

[Crawley]

Too late in what way? There will always be another season...

Since the one who shouldn't be mentioned we've never sold a star player on the cheap. In fact most clubs in the world know by now that if they want one of our star players they better be willing to pay up. That doesn't change at all with CL participation or not.

Since Levy we have always kept our wages under control. Chances of us collapsing seem small.

Why would we all of a sudden run out of chances to qualify?

If you read what I said, I suspect an element of fear amongst us that this could happen. I didn't say it definitely would.

But honestly, how long could we go without CL, and keep attracting CL rated players?
It would take teamwork and coaching of an exemplary manner to achieve it along with a big slice of luck.

We got it a couple of years back, just before Man Citys lottery win. We now have 3 teams financially capable of outdoing us, plus the Arse who will remain a problem.

 

[Spursalot]

If we were willing to pay 200k a week in wages to one special striker he would be tempted to come here.

Our issue with strikers is they are overpriced in comparison to other players and Levy isn't prepared to pay the new going rate.
So we compete with the best clubs in the world in buying top midfielders, defenders and keepers but when it comes to strikers we aren't willing to compete happy to pick up whatever's left.

Yup, and then everyone else at the club would also want a wage bump.


And we'd be up to our eyes in debt.


The second half is true though. It seems you can get everything but strikers in cheaply.

 

[braineclipse]

What makes you think a new stadium is the panacea to all our issues?

We have missed out on CL on each of the last two years by the skin of our teeth. One or two good new signings would in all probability have made all the difference.

If that would have been the case - we would have had CL three years in a row.

Then we can build a new stadium with a view of consolidating our position in the CL and maintaining a good cash flow to stay there.

Over time the clubs with higher revenue streams tend to finish higher in the table. That's just a basic fact of football. I didn't say that it's a panacea to all our issues. That's just a blatant straw man and I would appreciate it if you didn't do that.

All clubs challenging for CL could think the exact same way. Just spend £Xm, ensure CL football, rinse and repeat, obviously it wouldn't work for all the clubs. Any responsible chairman must be prepared financially to deal with not getting into the CL in our position.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, even more so when you can claim with certainty what would have happened in hypothetical scenarios too. That's not where the club can make their decisions from though. They have to make decisions based on limited information. Our chances of qualifying for the CL with this player is a guesstimated average X%, without this player it's a guesstimated average Y%. Are you at all familiar with game theory by the way?

 

[diego_maradona]

Think it may be time for another striker dossier...

 

[Crawley]

Think it may be time for another striker dossier...

You start it.

I'm off to bed.

It'll all be ok in the morning.

 

[Crawley]

Think it may be time for another striker dossier...

Anyway, you have to find the old one and post in there. No duplicates, ok?

 

[braineclipse]

You answered your own question earlier on. The big spenders have already have big stadiums - plus they have CL - AND in Chelsea and City's cases big sponduliks. So do Man Ure.

We will always play second fiddle to them unless we can get a team to break into the top four. A stadium wont help us in that respect - top players will.

I don't see how that answers my question at all.

We already had a team break into the CL. It was great fun and a good achievement. We're still not much closer to competing with Chelsea, United etc than we were then. A new stadium with an increased revenue stream would.

 

[Crawley]

I don't see how that answers my question at all.

We already had a team break into the CL. It was great fun and a good achievement. We're still not much closer to competing with Chelsea, United etc than we were then. A new stadium with an increased revenue stream would.

We didn't have Citys money influencing then. Not quite,

 

[braineclipse]

If you read what I said, I suspect an element of fear amongst us that this could happen. I didn't say it definitely would.

But honestly, how long could we go without CL, and keep attracting CL rated players?
It would take teamwork and coaching of an exemplary manner to achieve it along with a big slice of luck.

We got it a couple of years back, just before Man Citys lottery win. We now have 3 teams financially capable of outdoing us, plus the Arse who will remain a problem.

Again, going with the (in my opinion safe) assumption that teams with higher revenue streams will finish above teams with lower revenue streams on average.

Without CL and with a miserable EL campaign we were the 13th richest club in the world. 6th richest in the Premiership. There's no reason to believe that we will drop significantly from this position in the coming years even if we don't qualify for the CL.

So, as long as the club keeps working methodically and cleverly there's no real reason to think that we will drop massively in the table to where we no longer even have a chance to qualify for the CL.

We have attracted these "CL rated players" by working long term and looking for good deals where they could be made. I see no reason to change our strategy that has been successful so far.

 

[diego_maradona]

Anyway, you have to find the old one and post in there. No duplicates, ok?

Haha... Actually nuts to that I'm off to bed too, got work in the morning!

 

[Spursalot]

Progress is all about consistent revenue streams.


Getting in the Champions league would not be a consistent revenue stream, as there are 6-7 teams in the PL who are all currently fighting to get into four spots.


A stadium would be a far more consistent revenue stream, if the 'waiting list' is anywhere near true we would not struggle to fill a new 55k stadium week in week out. We would earn more money and the ability to spend more on wages which would attract a higher quality of players in itself.


With a higher quality of players we would be able to sustain our Champions League place, or at least a team that continues to challenge for it.



The other way is to consistently qualify for the Champions league first, which is not really a financially viable option as if you increase wages in line with Champions league revenues and then fail to make the top four you will have to sell your star players to avoid running at a loss.

This would be a far riskier course of action because you may struggle to get back in having sold your star players.



A stadium is a (relatively) fixed income, the champions league money is not. Long term there is no question.

 

[braineclipse]

Actually, it's not far off that, is it?

It isn't... We can overcome that short term by working really well as we have been doing in recent years. But long term that's unlikely to cut it, so there's really only one thing to do if we want long term success - increase our revenue stream. The only way to do that... Well, I'm repeating myself now.

 

[jimmyb]

The stadium will not all be built from sponsorship money. It is a question of priorities. We simply must get CL this season. Without it sponsorship will be just one of the things that dry up as we wont be such an attractive proposibion.

It is simply a question of priorities. There is only one pot. We have to allocate the funds most appropriately now.

It simply doesn't work like that.

Spursalot is absolutely correct. It is not an either / or situation.

I'm sure that Daniel Levy knows full well that there would be no point building a hugely expensive 60K stadium if it meant the team going dramatically backwards or even just stagnating. There is no way that we would fill such a stadium for the majority of games if that was the case. Most particularly, there is no way that we would attract sufficient demand from the all important corporate market.

Stadium funding will be ring fenced. It will come from a variety of sources - naming rights deal; property development sales; equity finance; and borrowing. And the interest and repayments on the loan will be more than covered by the increased revenue generated by the new stadium.

To prioritise either the stadium or the first team now to the exclusion of the other would be a huge mistake.

If we prioritise the first team and put the stadium on the back burner, we will merely be putting off something which will have to be done eventually. And when eventually does come around, we will be presented by the very same dilemma once again. So what would we do then? Prioritise the first team again? Continue to miss out on the huge revenue increases that a new stadium would generate? That way lies long term stagnation and the certainty of falling ever further behind other top clubs. And in the meanwhile, expensively acquired assets (property) would be sitting idle - earning us nothing but, instead, costing us significant interest charges.

And one more thing - in terms of cost, this is almost certainly the best time to undertake a massive construction project such as the NDP that we are likely to get in a generation. Delay, and the cost could rise dramatically.

 

[Yermiyahu]

it is time to address our real priorities for this season.

For me it is vital we qualify for the CL. If we dont the ramifications are severe - financial loss, player departures and less likely to sign quality players.

The stadium can wait until we are CL regulars. Without qualifying we risk going on a downward spira.

NOW is the time to invest in top quality players. The stadium can wait.

Ridiculous question. As has been pointed out the two are not mutually exclusive. very poor thread.

 

[jimmyb]

What makes you think a new stadium is the panacea to all our issues?

We have missed out on CL on each of the last two years by the skin of our teeth. One or two good new signings would in all probability have made all the difference.

If that would have been the case - we would have had CL three years in a row.

Then we can build a new stadium with a view of consolidating our position in the CL and maintaining a good cash flow to stay there.

Just as easy to ask.....what makes you think that a new striker is the panacea to all our issues?

Basing any kind of a long term plan - especially a financial plan - on the club perennially qualifying for the Champions League would be the height of foolishness.

A new striker might help us to qualify for the Champions League once. But that doesn't mean that we would necessarily qualify again. You can't just blithely talk about consolidating a place in the Champions League as if it was the easiest thing in the world to do once you're there. The other top clubs won't be standing still. And they all, currently, have vastly greater resources to help them realise their ambitions.

Building a stadium will provide the club with an asset that will keep on giving, regardless of whether or not we are in the Champions League. We have to build it if we are ever to have a chance of consistently challenging for Champions League places and silverware. The sooner the better.

And, as I said in my previous post, it is not an either or situation. Building a stadium does not mean that we cannot, in the meanwhile, buy a top striker.

 

[greatwhitenorf]

If only we had a mine to shout down.

The men and minerals to solve all our problems.

 

[billyiddo]

We lost money in the last financial report and people want us to gamble more on CL qualification - maybe some of you should remember where that team we played yesterday were 10+ years ago and what has happened in the years since and what started the downward spiral for them