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New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan

Hootnow said:
I'd rather us choose our capacity based on what we think we can fill, rather than a silly dingdong waving competition with Arsenal. We will not sell out 60k except for the biggest games and 5/6k empty seats per week looks horrible. We need to strike a good balance between increasing the capacity to allow us to compete in the long run, while maintaining enough people on the season ticket waiting list to encourage people to still keep on buying season tickets to ensure their own attendance at big games.
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Agreed that whatever capacity is decided upon, the decision should be made entirely without reference to Arsenal and the Emirates stadium.

Can't agree with you, however, that we will fail to sell out 60K for all but the biggest games. You say that you and a great many others on the waiting list have no intention of buying a season ticket at any time. Acknowledged. But there are also a great many who do intend to buy a season ticket as soon as they can. For instance, our group of six regulars has four season tickets between us - two of them to my name. The three who don't have their own season tickets all intend to buy them when the new stadium is built. In fact, one of them intends to buy two.

So with a waiting list of about 35K, I don't think it's unreasonable to estimate that at least 15,000 of them will take up the option for a season ticket. That would take season ticket numbers up to 40K.

On top of that, we would still have a further 50K members (a figure that is likely to grow, given our increased "success" and exposure over the past six years or so - and the perception that we have rejoined the elite). So I would still expect healthy ticket sales to members.

Then there's the Field Of Dreams syndrome. If you build it, they will come. There can be no denying that many fans will be attracted to games just to experience the new stadium. True, many of them will be day trippers or one offs. But some of them will get the bug and return again and again.

Ultimately, of course, the whole point of building the new stadium is so that Spurs are better able to compete. And, if it does its job in that respect, then a virtuous circle will have been created. And ever more fans will want to come to watch the famous Spurs in action.

So while I don't think we'll necessarily sell out every game at a 60K stadium, I don't believe that we'll only manage to sell out the very "biggest games".
 
Spur of the moment said:
Does anyone know how many the Arse had on their w/l before they started building the Emirates? I doubt it was as many as the 22,000 they needed anyway. Don't forget there's bound to be a lot more interest once the stadium begins to emerge, plus no doubt more creative and aggressive selling strategies.

My guess is we'll have trouble fitting them all in for the first three or four years. After that it'll be down to how well the team is performing.
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Arsenal already had a waiting list of more than 45K in their final season at Highbury. Not surprising, really, given that they had enjoyed so many good years under Wenger and, before that, under the man in the raincoat.
 
Hootnow said:
I have many friends who buy a season ticket effectively to ensure that they can go to the big games, vs Arsenal and Chelsea especially. When I had a season ticket, I had similar motivations. If there are always seats available, even for the biggest games, people are less inclined to go for season tickets.

The original plan for 56K contained plans for a potential expansion to 60K+ did it not? If we so chose.

I doubt Levy and co will be reducing prices too much tbh.

The season ticket waiting list has unsurprisingly shot up as we have become a better team. It will shoot back down as we will likely have to scale back spending for a bit after building the stadium and inevitably see on pitch performance worsen.
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Nope. Not as far as I'm aware. Certainly, there were no official statements to that effect. The design of the roof (once built) precludes all but the most expensive of capacity increases.

My guess and hope is that Spurs have found the space for the extra 4-5K seats by improving the design. They don't have room to increase the external footprint of the stadium. So my hope is that they will do one or a combination of the following:

a) Add a row or two closer to the pitch.
b) Fill in the curvy dips at each corner to some extent (which would require a slight redesign of the roof).
c) Add a few rows to the back of the single tier end.

Each of these would be a design improvement while also increasing capacity.

One factor which might have contributed to the capacity rethink is the FFP rules. They were introduced after the 56K figure had been decided upon. But now, Spurs will have to squeeze every last penny out of potential revenues. So the added cost of building the extra seats can be easily justified.
 
Hootnow said:
I'd just prefer to have a stadium that allows us to bring in a lot more money, that allows more of our fans watch the mighty Spurs but which isn't empty on a regular basis and which gives us scope to easily and cheaply expand further in the future if we're regularly selling out the stadium.
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This is the problem.

Because of the constraints of the site, there will be no (or very little) scope for further expansion. Adding 5K seats as part of a later construction would be expensive and an inefficient use of funds. Far cheaper to include those extra 5K seats in the initial build.

There's definitely something in what you say about striking a balance between accommodating fans and maintaining the demand for tickets. And, especially if Spurs fail to perform on the pitch, there is a danger that many games will be far from sold out. But, overall, I think it better to have a capacity that is slightly too high than one that is slightly too low.
 
jimmyb said:
Arsenal already had a waiting list of more than 45K in their final season at Highbury. Not surprising, really, given that they had enjoyed so many good years under Wenger and, before that, under the man in the raincoat.
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Thanks, though for a true comparison with where we are now, my question related to the time before a single brick had been laid. But I suppose if it was 45K in their final season at Highbury it would probably have been pretty substantial a couple of seasons earlier.

One point that has not yet been made in favour of the higher capacity is the way media fixation with the Premiership just keeps on ramping up season after season. The emergence of ourselves and City over the last few seasons against the imperative for the Sky Four to qualify for a CL place has no doubt helped explain why despite the current dire economic situation and regardless of capacity every top six club sells out every game practically every week.

It's also worth noting that over the next decade or so, five of our six main rivals have announced their intention to increase capacity. United are talking about expanding to 90k: Chelsea are actively looking for a site to build a new stadium and they're hardly likely to settle for less than 60K; Sheikh Mansoor has made his ambitions for a larger Etihad abundantly clear and victims's new owners seem more likely than the previous American landlords to succeed in delivering either a new 60K stadium or an expanded Anfield.

Saudi Sportswashing Machine have also announced plans to take St James Park up to 60K so you have to wonder whether that figure will become the norm for a top Premiership club before too long.

Finally I would reiterate that if due to a mediocre spell we were to struggle to fill a 60K stadium then we'd also struggle to fill 56K. In the grand scheme of things I just cannot see that a meagre 4k would make that much difference.
 
City and Chelsea might want to build huge stadiums, but they won't come near filling them without lowering prices. It's really the VIP areas they can improve on and that's the major thing for us as well.
 
Nutter-Naylor said:
http://i.imgur.com/1pwQX.gif

Before and after....
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Think your link only shows the before green image.

I have seen the images on a previous post in this thread. What a cant get my head around is the 'changeover' from old to new.
Looking at the 2 coloured images and seeing the position of the rear of the North Stand in relation to the new build, to me it looks to be over a 1/3 of the way into the postion of the new ground.
To me,that means between the 2nd week in May and 2nd week in August, they are expecting to demolish all the North Stand and half of the East and West stands, lay a new pitch and make safe the South end of the new stadium, all in 3 months.
That is one tight schedule. I think we can expect a run of away games at the start of the new season(2015/16?) to help out maybe, think we did this in the 90s.

One things for sure it will feel weird playing in a two-thirds complete ground with no fans behind one goal for probably a full season
 
jimmyb said:
This is the problem.

Because of the constraints of the site, there will be no (or very little) scope for further expansion. Adding 5K seats as part of a later construction would be expensive and an inefficient use of funds. Far cheaper to include those extra 5K seats in the initial build.

There's definitely something in what you say about striking a balance between accommodating fans and maintaining the demand for tickets. And, especially if Spurs fail to perform on the pitch, there is a danger that many games will be far from sold out. But, overall, I think it better to have a capacity that is slightly too high than one that is slightly too low.
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I agree that Spurs should build the largest capacity stadium they can feasibly manage. A lot of talk in stadium projects is given to the ability to expand at a later date, but that's hard to justify since they're usually up top - the most expensive to build and bring in the lowest returns. That's the rationale previous Spurs owners stated for not adding extra tiers to the current WHL configuration.

None of Spurs' proposed designs shown earlier exhibited a likelihood of being able to expand in a cost-effective way so I'm glad to see them take the time to get it right. Create lots of cheap seats and pack the place with kids.
 
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Apologies if the answer to this is buried somewhere in this thread, but is the single tier end still part of the plans?
 
Rorshach said:
Apologies if the answer to this is buried somewhere in this thread, but is the single tier end still part of the plans?
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As far as I know, yes. Certainly haven't heard anything to the contrary.

I'd be very surprised if the club did away with plans for the single tier end after the positive reaction that it received from the fans.
 
jimmyb said:
As far as I know, yes. Certainly haven't heard anything to the contrary.

I'd be very surprised if the club did away with plans for the single tier end after the positive reaction that it received from the fans.
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Glad to hear it. Thanks Jimmy.
 
Rorshach said:
Apologies if the answer to this is buried somewhere in this thread, but is the single tier end still part of the plans?
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Be amazing, but could you imagine how long it would take to get out at HT or the end of the game haha, nightmare stuff
 
markysimmo said:
Be amazing, but could you imagine how long it would take to get out at HT or the end of the game haha, nightmare stuff
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Probably less time than it does now. The entry/exit points and common areas are likely to be bigger and better designed than those currently at WHL.
 
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