New Stadium and Training Ground - Pg 104 Northumberland Park master plan

[jimmyb]

Warmington House, one of the 4 southern buildings, is nationally listed (Grade II).

Ah. Well remembered!

Still, Grade II is of inferior quality and importance to Grade II*.

So the case can still be successfully argued for its demolition. I don't think the same could be said for the northern terrace.

 

[P.D.]

It might be that discussions have already taken place and EH have been persuaded not to object to demolition. If not they *could* be overruled but does anyone know of any examples when consent to demolish a listed building has been given despite advice from EH that it should be refused?

EH claim every listed building should stay regardless of the situation. Its their default and only position to basically everything.

 

[milo]

Sorry, fella, but that simply isn't true.

Transport and location are very minor considerations.

I repeat. It's ALL about the product. That's what corporates will pay for (and keep coming back for) - the sense of being part of a great event and being well looked after for the duration. If Spurs have a great team, playing great football; and if the facilities, catering and service are all top notch (as I am certain they will be), then the fact that the club is based in Tottenham and not Stratford will matter not one jot.

With regard to ease of access from the City and Canary Wharf, as has been pointed out, the vast majority of games will be played on a weekend afternoon...............when those twin centres of capitalism will be largely deserted.

And as to the area of Tottenham being run down, corporates generally go straight to the stadium, where they will get 5 star treatment and all the food and drink that they want. When they have had their fill, they will leave. They don't need the surrounding area to be swamped with brand name coffee shops and restaurants.

I disagree, we are not just competing with Chelsea and Arsenal corporate boxes are not loyal to a club or even a sport, what they provide is a good day out, a bit of a booze up and some entertainment. Many of the people being entertained are not fans of the club that is hosting them and just want a good day out. Of course a company wants an attractive event to take guests to but ease of access and the attractiveness of the day is also a major consideration.

 

[jimmyb]

I disagree, we are not just competing with Chelsea and Arsenal corporate boxes are not loyal to a club or even a sport, what they provide is a good day out, a bit of a booze up and some entertainment. Many of the people being entertained are not fans of the club that is hosting them and just want a good day out. Of course a company wants an attractive event to take guests to but ease of access and the attractiveness of the day is also a major consideration.

Ease of access would be an issue if Tottenham was in Outer Mongolia.

But it isn't.

It's a 20 minute train journey from Liverpool Street - at the heart of the City of London.

Besides, point of destination isn't the only relevant criterion. Point of departure is equally important. It might well be easier to get to Chelsea from south or west London. But it is, equally, easier to get to Tottenham from north and east London.

You're absolutely correct to say that many corporates aren't genuine fans - which is precisely why it is the product that matters and not the location. A company splashing out big money to entertain clients at a football match wants the experience to be something special. They want to buy in to the best possible team and best possible overall experience. If Spurs have that team, facilities, level of service etc, and if Chelsea and Arsenal are marginally inferior, then it will be Spurs' corporate packages that are most in demand - regardless of location.

 

[T-C]

I disagree, we are not just competing with Chelsea and Arsenal corporate boxes are not loyal to a club or even a sport, what they provide is a good day out, a bit of a booze up and some entertainment. Many of the people being entertained are not fans of the club that is hosting them and just want a good day out. Of course a company wants an attractive event to take guests to but ease of access and the attractiveness of the day is also a major consideration.

Exactly this. It's massively about convenience.

It may be that a lot of games are weekend afternoons, but from my experience unless those are the really big games then boxes get passed over to family and friends. A company I've previously worked for had a box at Arsenal and would often send an email around on a Thursday or Friday afternoon asking whether anyone wanted to use it that weekend.

The main use for corporate facilities is to host potential or existing customers, suppliers, partners etc. as an after work event. A lot of these people aren't going to want to travel back into London at the weekends, so easy access from the office and getting home afterwards has a big impact on the usefulness of their investment.

The more frequently that investment can be used, the more our club can charge.

It's not just the people being entertained who are not necessarily fans, the companies with the boxes are often simply using it is as a sales tool. The last time I went there were 4 of us in an eight seater box and were being hosted by a Derby fan.

 

[AdamB]

SO what do we think the more likely timing is? Remainder of approvals in the next couple months, building in earnest starts this summer and then play in the three sided stadium in 2014/5 and completed stadium in 2015/6?

 

[EJG]

SO what do we think the more likely timing is? Remainder of approvals in the next couple months, building in earnest starts this summer and then play in the three sided stadium in 2014/5 and completed stadium in 2015/6?

Loughtonspur posted the following on Skyscrapercity last night:

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Another little find for you. Here is the agenda for the planning meeting on 13th feb.

Here is the new s106 doc

And here is one of the docs with some new pics on pages 37-38

Some highlights include:

'The club now proposes an indicative constructive timetable for its three phase NDP scheme as follows:

Phase 1 (Northern Development) with the supermarket, club and other commercial space - start in Autumn 2012 with completion in 2014.

The new stadium (Phase 2) start in summer 2013 with completion in 2016

Phase 3 (Southern Development) with housing and commercial space - subject to being granted full planning permission, start in 2016 following demolition of the existing stadium'

The new s106 states that they're planning on building a new southern ticket hall at whl station with a direct walkway down Whitehall road plus re-naming the station.

It also says we don't have to pay the 16m from the agreed s106.

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So from that it would mean the full stadium would be ready for the start of 2016/17 so I assume we'd be moving into the partially completed stadium at the start of 2015/16.

 

[Jordinho]

The new s106 states that they're planning on building a new southern ticket hall at whl station with a direct walkway down Whitehall road plus re-naming the station.

Why would the rename the station? What name could possibly be better?

The Bill Nic walkway would do.

 

[Superhudd]

A few things

Looks like that by the size of that screen in the corner the corners may well not be filled in to create that extra seating needed to go 60k+

The end on show, I thought it was this end that the 'Kop' was going to be.. probably I'm wrong in the fact it was never that end.

Wonder what the dark strip is going around the stadium, advertising!? or just dark windows for the boxes.

And the obvious, no listed/graded buildings.

 

[Superhudd]

Also

Q3c: Is there no social housing at all?
Ans: Our suggestion is that there should be no social housing.

 

[Johnny Ray]

A few things

Looks like that by the size of that screen in the corner the corners may well not be filled in to create that extra seating needed to go 60k+

The end on show, I thought it was this end that the 'Kop' was going to be.. probably I'm wrong in the fact it was never that end.

Wonder what the dark strip is going around the stadium, advertising!? or just dark windows for the boxes.

And the obvious, no listed/graded buildings.

Had a pretty big read this morning, one of the statements was that there are no changes to the amount of seating in the stadium and remains the same as the approved 56k plans.

 

[jimmyb]

A few things

Looks like that by the size of that screen in the corner the corners may well not be filled in to create that extra seating needed to go 60k+

The end on show, I thought it was this end that the 'Kop' was going to be.. probably I'm wrong in the fact it was never that end.

Wonder what the dark strip is going around the stadium, advertising!? or just dark windows for the boxes.

And the obvious, no listed/graded buildings.

I noticed all of this too. I'm hoping that it's just laziness or a mistake on the part of whoever drew the sketches.

Because you're right that the southern end is where the single tier stand is supposed to be.

I will be very tinkled off if the rumoured extra 4-5K seats will be found by restoring the stadium to a dull, uniform bowl again. There are other, much better ways of finding the extra capacity.

 

[billyiddo]

hold on i thought the Kop was going to be the new North Stand ? is the end on show not the South ?

 

[Jordinho]

Thought it was North Stand as well.

 

[jimmyb]

I'm 95% certain that the single tier was always intended for the southern end.

That's the end that will be completed in Phase 2, while we're already playing the two thirds completed stadium.

 

[billyiddo]

no, the north end will be the first end completed (the new south stand will overlap our current north stand)

 

[paxtonwolf]

I'm 95% certain that the single tier was always intended for the southern end.

That's the end that will be completed in Phase 2, while we're already playing the two thirds completed stadium.

I assumed it was the South stand, because arent the away fans going to be situated in the North East corner of the new stadium?

 

[jimmyb]

no, the north end will be the first end completed (the new south stand will overlap our current north stand)

Yes.

That's exactly the point I was making, fella!

We know that the single tier end will be built in phase 2. And we also know that the northern end will be built in phase 1.

Therefore, by process of elimination, the single tier stand is earmarked for the southern end!

But those sketches show the interior of the southern end with corporate boxes and further tiers above the lower tier - in other words, a continuation of the uniform bowl rather than a single tier.

So, as I said, I'm hoping that it's just absent mindedness on the part of whoever drew the sketches.

 

[jimmyb]

I assumed it was the South stand, because arent the away fans going to be situated in the North East corner of the new stadium?

Yep.

 

[billyiddo]

ah, i read you post totally wrong mate

has it been said that the single tier will be phase 2 then ?

anyway - doesn't 'phase 2 ' just refer to the building works starting on the stadium (as opposed to phase 1 which is surround area works) ?

wasn't the switch in to the new ground and final building works 'phase 3'