Danishfurniturelover
the prettiest spice girl
Walker-Peters, Onomah and Carter Vickers if they are not regulars next season it would make more sense to get them prem loans.
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New Contracts
- Thread starter Gutter Boy
- Start date
Bullet
Andy Thompson
Interesting article on Skipp from a few months ago
Tottenham U19s' match against Borussia Dortmund was kicking off at the Bundesliga club's sprawling training complex on the edge of the city.
Spurs' Hotspur Way training ground can rightly claim to be one of Europe's best, but the BVB complex runs it close. It has pitches galore, stretching as far as the eye can see
When the match came, Spurs' youngsters were superb, perhaps surprisingly technically far superior to their hosts, who included the former Emirates Marketing Project youngster Jadon Sancho, once linked with a move to north London, among their ranks.
Tottenham's front four of Samuel Shashoua, Marcus Edwards, Paris Maghoma and Kazaiah Sterling tore Dortmund to shreds every time they flew forward. Shashoua and Maghoma in particular were top class, with the latter just 16-years-old, as Spurs ran out 3-1 winners and the lead would have been bigger but for a Brandon Austin goalkeeping howler and a missed Edwards penalty.
A 45-minute wait after the final whistle for my taxi to return allowed me plenty of time to observe the young Spurs stars of the future as they emerged from the changing rooms.
Big things are being expected of 17-year-old Oliver Skipp by the academy coaches and in every way he is the perfect Pochettino player. He was playing in the UEFA Youth League last season as well.
On the pitch, the defensive midfielder is skillful, tactically intelligent, determined and never stops running and hassling the opposition. Despite his age - he only turned 17 in mid-September - he dominates much older midfield opponents in the club's U19 and U23 matches. He rattled the crossbar with a brilliant shot from distance in the first half at Dortmund.
Off the pitch, his maturity was clear. There were a couple of German football fans hanging around outside the changing rooms, looking for some selfies with the young Tottenham starlets.
Skipp stopped and spoke to one in particular for a while, asking the supporter plenty of questions about himself as well as he then began to clean his boots under an outdoor tap.
When that was done and it was time for him to leave, he asked a female member of the support staff if she needed help carrying some of the team's bags to the coaches. She declined, but it gave a glimpse of the type of player Pochettino wants at his club.
Oliver Skipp is highly regarded at Tottenham
The Argentine wants to mould Tottenham Hotspur's identity in his own image - hard-working, ambitious types without egos who put others' interests before their own - a talented collective of players rather than individual stars.
It may seem like tiny details - taking the time to talk to fans and offering to help others - but allied to his undoubted skill with and without the ball, it's one of the reasons why Skipp stands a great chance of progressing through the ranks.
Pochettino is keeping a close eye on him and there's a bit of Harry Winks about him in terms of his intelligence, distribution and work-rate in the centre, but still only being 17 he's likely to continue to grow into a more physically dominating player than Spurs' latest England international.
Tottenham U19s' match against Borussia Dortmund was kicking off at the Bundesliga club's sprawling training complex on the edge of the city.
Spurs' Hotspur Way training ground can rightly claim to be one of Europe's best, but the BVB complex runs it close. It has pitches galore, stretching as far as the eye can see
When the match came, Spurs' youngsters were superb, perhaps surprisingly technically far superior to their hosts, who included the former Emirates Marketing Project youngster Jadon Sancho, once linked with a move to north London, among their ranks.
Tottenham's front four of Samuel Shashoua, Marcus Edwards, Paris Maghoma and Kazaiah Sterling tore Dortmund to shreds every time they flew forward. Shashoua and Maghoma in particular were top class, with the latter just 16-years-old, as Spurs ran out 3-1 winners and the lead would have been bigger but for a Brandon Austin goalkeeping howler and a missed Edwards penalty.
A 45-minute wait after the final whistle for my taxi to return allowed me plenty of time to observe the young Spurs stars of the future as they emerged from the changing rooms.
Big things are being expected of 17-year-old Oliver Skipp by the academy coaches and in every way he is the perfect Pochettino player. He was playing in the UEFA Youth League last season as well.
On the pitch, the defensive midfielder is skillful, tactically intelligent, determined and never stops running and hassling the opposition. Despite his age - he only turned 17 in mid-September - he dominates much older midfield opponents in the club's U19 and U23 matches. He rattled the crossbar with a brilliant shot from distance in the first half at Dortmund.
Off the pitch, his maturity was clear. There were a couple of German football fans hanging around outside the changing rooms, looking for some selfies with the young Tottenham starlets.
Skipp stopped and spoke to one in particular for a while, asking the supporter plenty of questions about himself as well as he then began to clean his boots under an outdoor tap.
When that was done and it was time for him to leave, he asked a female member of the support staff if she needed help carrying some of the team's bags to the coaches. She declined, but it gave a glimpse of the type of player Pochettino wants at his club.
Oliver Skipp is highly regarded at Tottenham
The Argentine wants to mould Tottenham Hotspur's identity in his own image - hard-working, ambitious types without egos who put others' interests before their own - a talented collective of players rather than individual stars.
It may seem like tiny details - taking the time to talk to fans and offering to help others - but allied to his undoubted skill with and without the ball, it's one of the reasons why Skipp stands a great chance of progressing through the ranks.
Pochettino is keeping a close eye on him and there's a bit of Harry Winks about him in terms of his intelligence, distribution and work-rate in the centre, but still only being 17 he's likely to continue to grow into a more physically dominating player than Spurs' latest England international.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Im glad you mention Winks, because he really is the yardstick. Onomah had the same chances, earlier, and was over taken by Harry.
Thats the thing with him in a nutshell, for me.
I dont doubt his potential, his ability, or how highly rated he is. I doubt whether or not he has it in him to make that same step Winks has.
I do appreciate, it may be a couple of seasons before he finds that, all Im saying is if thats the case he likely wont be here when he does.
Im not that interested in comparing to other players at other clubs at different times and ages etc, its only broadly appropriate.
Im talking simply about Onomah, a lad who has been around the first team squad for a few years and never been able to show what it takes to step in regularly, despite his obvious gifts.
I would love him to come back from Villa more determined, with more belief, and really push into contention this summer. Id be delighted.
So far though I havent seen it in him to think that will happen. And I do think - with the kids pushing up from below - how long we persist with him will be ever shorter.
Seriously - how long is long enough before you decide a player isnt going to push through? When does it become a roadblock to others? When do you decide he isnt going to do it?
Its a horrible question, but IMHO its pretty much where we will be with him in the short term, unless something changes in a big way.
Its bizarre. Villa play him there and by all accounts he does well and looks their best player, fans love him.
So Bruce pushes him forward so Hoorahan and Whelan can play instead where he underwhelms massively. To the degree he isnt even a regular starter.
I dont get it, and do think Bruce has let him down.
That said, it could be the loan was still a good experience. Villa is a massive club, and a real scalp in that league. He will have been performing in a high demand environment. And, even while not being great at AM, he will have been playing in very physical and competitive games.
It is possible its just what he needed, and I hope he comes in a "new" player.
I just think he is in the last chance saloon with regards to breaking through here.
ricky2tricky4city
Steffen Freund
He needs a growth mindset rather than the fixed mindset he currently has.
Exactly - I assume that Poch and Bruce would have discussed how he wants him to be played/utilised as its our perogative to ensure he is developed correctly? I dont doubt he has talent but just dont see him getting anwhere near to our CM without a) A fair few injuries b) Him having more experience on loan and showing what he can do
I see it far more likely we will purchase a quality CM to supplement/replace/cover Dembele, we already have one young CM learning his trade in Winks and he is way ahead of Onomah....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
We have no idea what discussions did or did not take place. I would imagine, primarily, we wanted to get games into him - so int hat respect its been a success I guess?
Poch has rarely played him CM, so it would be a bit rich to demand Bruce do.
The weird thing for me is, having stalked Villa forums, whenever he did play CM he was their best performer, and when he didnt they thought he was really poor. Would seem a no brainer to me to play him CM, but Bruce apparently prefers the "safety" of two cloggers.
Maybe another loan would suit best, at a premiership level (Huddersfield/Bournemouth could be good shouts). Because as things stand he is barely on the fringes of our team. As you say, if Dembele goes (for example) he will be replaced, it wont be left to Onomah to step in.
Kandi1977
Garth Crooks
What do you buy from the guy above the one you buy weed from?
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
He very well may be, but I can't see how one could make that argument when Onomah hasn't been played in a CM role for us. And when he has been played at Villa he was outstanding.
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
You do have to wonder, why has Winks been given chances at CM (and taken them) but Onomah not?
Bedfordspurs
Mark Falco
Onomah is younger
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Means nothing. Good enough/old enough.
Looks to me like they have had the same opportunities, one has taken them, one hasnt (so far)
Looks to me like they have had the same opportunities, one has taken them, one hasnt (so far)
With Poch age has nothing to do with it. Dele was 20 when he was playing for Spurs, Winks is only a year old than Onomah....
You're right, Winks looked like he belonged in the team from the get go, maybe Onomah will just bloom a little later.....
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Entirely possible. I certainly hope so.
I just think he is going to have to start showing signs its coming or he wont be around here when he finally finds himself.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Winks is a passer, Onomah is a physical driver. Onomah's game needs him to have a physical dominance, which he doesn't have yet against adults
nayimfromthehalfwayline
Andy Thompson
Thats rubbish. He is a big and strong lad, fit, and able to compete in what is now a virtually a non contact sport.
His problem is lack of aggression, not lack of power.
His problem is lack of aggression, not lack of power.
alekaras
The ITK of IDK
That's not really relevant. The bottom line is that he hasn't been given the chance to play his preferred CM position (the "why" could be a million different things) and until you see them both in that position you cannot draw a definitive conclusion.
Good new contract discussion, by the way.
BrainOfLevy
Michael Carrick
There may be something to what GB is saying. If Winks is expected to give and go quickly, to release not long after he gets it most of the time, you can probably be comfortable that he can operate deeper and there is less risk in losing the ball. Of course Winks drives forward sometimes too, but there may be something in it. Onomah is less of a metronome and more someone that would hold on to the ball a little longer and commit players, and it may be until he has physically matured that he would be too easy a target for opposition managers to exploit. You get 2 or 3 players surrounding him when he’s in deep midfield and maybe he gets knocked around a bit and it’s too much of a risk for us to take until he fills out a little more. To that end, maybe a loan to the Champ and to a Steve Bruce team was actually a really smart move. He needs to be competing both physically and mentally. Playing deep midfield in a passing team wouldn’t teach him anything he can’t already do and he may as well stay under Poch’s training to do it.
I may be totally wrong and it may be that Josh just doesn’t have the mentality and he may have lost his chance, because it is curious that Winks was trusted deep quite quickly. But by the same token, in the first team where results are important they have tried to give Josh and many minutes as possible. I actually don’t think he does have an attitude problem at all, I think he is totally misjudged in that regard. From Poch’s very first season, he was the one getting time in the Europa and has always been around the team. I think Poch likes him, and if he didn’t get a good vibe from his attitude then he wouldn’t have been anywhere near the first team. He’s also quality in the way he thinks and plays the game to me, you can tell sometimes he is two steps ahead of his Villa team mates and it baffles me that their fans don’t like him. But again, he’s not getting chances deep midfield and I imagine a Bruce system works better with cloggers playing deep.
All of this doesn’t mean JO is gonna turn into a star for us, but I’ve got a suspicion he may make a late dash for the first team ala Mason. He is very talented and I think if he fills out physically then he’s got a big chance, as long as he wants it. If he doesn’t want it, he’ll be out because Poch won’t stand for it.
Positive thing for me is that he's got first team football, the championship is a decent standard and he'll have developed more playing in a team with expectations than he would sitting on our bench for a season. Players can often learn a lot from playing in a different position that becomes more useful later in their career.
Also we have other players who can perform his duties like Wanyana, Dembele and Dier though he's a slightly different player. For Winks we don't really have any deep passing midfielders so it was easier to get him regular playing time.
Also we have other players who can perform his duties like Wanyana, Dembele and Dier though he's a slightly different player. For Winks we don't really have any deep passing midfielders so it was easier to get him regular playing time.