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Moses - can he lead us to the promised CL land?

billyiddo said:
suppose for a second you didn't read the rumors that Poch wanted Moses whilst at Soton... do you think you'd have been saying 'fine by me' then? or do you think you'd be damning the club for going for another cheap bargain basement offering rather than backing the manager?
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The way I see it, we'll have raised 50-60 odd million in sales come the end of this window (fwiw, 50 if we don't sell Soldado, 60 if we do, imo). We've likely already spent 20-odd million from that to acquire Alderweireld, Trippier and Wimmer, no doubt with the accompanying 'agent's fees' that braine self-assuredly insists have eaten up our previous large window profits. That gives us some 30-40 million quid to work with: 30 if we're looking for just the DM and wide striker, 40 if we're looking for the DM, wide striker and another forward to replace Soldado. In both scenarios, the more money we spend to buy back-ups to Kane, the less money we'll have available to spend on a top DM. Imagine that we had 30 million quid, and were (hypothetically) looking at three price-tiers for our DMs: Illarramendi or Krychowiak for 20 million, Bender or McCarthy for 15 million, and Camacho or Suarez for 8-10 odd million. That is a position of clear need, and it would behoove us to aim for the top of that list, no? Accordingly, however, that would leave us with 10-odd million to find someone to play as a wide striker, which would logically leave us looking at someone like Moses.

Now, I hate that cheap way of doing business, and hate the dripping mediocrity and ludicrous, absolutely needless self-imposed austerity that said method of conducting operations brings with it. I've made that clear. However, many of you seem to absolutrly love that business model to bits, and it's clear that we won't change it even if Levy did suddenly realize the stupidly self-defeating nature of it (although I don't think he ever will). So, for the sake of keeping @parklane1 sweet (among other things), I've reconciled myself to that seemingly permanent mode of operations. :) Within that structure, all I can hope for is that the areas of need will be addressed by spending as much as we can from what we earn on said areas, with what's left being given to the backup positions. Hence, Moses.

Do I like the idea of an average backup? I trust you know the answer to that. Do I mind it, given my fatigued acceptance of our stupid ultracheap search for eternal profitability? Not really, if (crucially) what we do make from sales is used to pursue a top class player in a position of dire need, and with no more faffing about making Bentaleb play as a DM.

Pirate55 said:
Wrong. We now need quality in ALL remaining key position purchases. We have back-ups coming out of our tush:(
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Not up front, we don't. Who's our academy youngster there, Coulthirst? Beyond Soldado, we're short of forwards, both in the first team and in the youth production line. Hence, given my explanation above....I'm not that fussed about Moses coming in.
 
I've mentioned before that we lack players who can beat defenders one on one through pure skill from standstill positions. You need someone like this because when defences sit deep clever intricate passing isn't always going to work - that's why we need someone like Moses or Bolassie,they might not be the most consistent but are capable of doing something special. I wanted him before he went to Chelsea, and he showed signs of getting his mojo back at Stoke. I'd be happy with him...
 
DubaiSpur said:
The way I see it, we'll have raised 50-60 odd million in sales come the end of this window (fwiw, 50 if we don't sell Soldado, 60 if we do, imo). We've likely already spent 20-odd million from that to acquire Alderweireld, Trippier and Wimmer, no doubt with the accompanying 'agent's fees' that braine self-assuredly insists have eaten up our previous large window profits. That gives us some 30-40 million quid to work with: 30 if we're looking for just the DM and wide striker, 40 if we're looking for the DM, wide striker and another forward to replace Soldado. In both scenarios, the more money we spend to buy back-ups to Kane, the less money we'll have available to spend on a top DM. Imagine that we had 30 million quid, and were (hypothetically) looking at three price-tiers for our DMs: Illarramendi or Krychowiak for 20 million, Bender or McCarthy for 15 million, and Camacho or Suarez for 8-10 odd million. That is a position of clear need, and it would behoove us to aim for the top of that list, no? Accordingly, however, that would leave us with 10-odd million to find someone to play as a wide striker, which would logically leave us looking at someone like Moses.

Now, I hate that cheap way of doing business, and hate the dripping mediocrity and ludicrous, absolutely needless self-imposed austerity that said method of conducting operations brings with it. I've made that clear. However, many of you seem to absolutrly love that business model to bits, and it's clear that we won't change it even if Levy did suddenly realize the stupidly self-defeating nature of it (although I don't think he ever will). So, for the sake of keeping @parklane1 sweet (among other things), I've reconciled myself to that seemingly permanent mode of operations. :) Within that structure, all I can hope for is that the areas of need will be addressed by spending as much as we can from what we earn on said areas, with what's left being given to the backup positions. Hence, Moses.

Do I like the idea of an average backup? I trust you know the answer to that. Do I mind it, given my fatigued acceptance of our stupid ultracheap search for eternal profitability? Not really, if (crucially) what we do make from sales is used to pursue a top class player in a position of dire need, and with no more faffing about making Bentaleb play as a DM.



Not up front, we don't. Who's our academy youngster there, Coulthirst? Beyond Soldado, we're short of forwards, both in the first team and in the youth production line. Hence, given my explanation above....I'm not that fussed about Moses coming in.
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Even more reason to bring in top quality up front. That's why I wanted Benteke and now want Dzeko. No more second raters please. Top quality costs money. We now NEED to spend big in the two or three key positions if we realistically want to compete for top four. No more stocking fillers, ala Saha, Campbell, Pav, etc. Game changers cost big bucks because they effect games and can often be the difference between success and failure. We desperately crave success and have been starved of it for too long.
 
How good was he last season? I never really paid attention to him, so I don't know.

Is he quicker than Townsend? I think we need some faster players in attack, even if it's just off the bench. Getting Mirallas (spelling?) would help with that too.
 
Pirate55 said:
Even more reason to bring in top quality up front. That's why I wanted Benteke and now want Dzeko. No more second raters please. Top quality costs money. We now NEED to spend big in the two or three key positions if we realistically want to compete for top four. No more stocking fillers, ala Saha, Campbell, Pav, etc. Game changers cost big bucks because they effect games and can often be the difference between success and failure. We desperately crave success and have been starved of it for too long.
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Ha! In an ideal world, I'd applaud your sentiments, and I still entirely agree with them.

However...our owners don't give a single sh*t about success as a primary objective. So, we have to make do with scrimping and saving and window after window of profits. Given that harsh reality, would you rather we spend on a) a top DM, or b) a top striker? Because our income from sales (minus the expected profit and 'agent's fees') won't stretch enough to cover both, imo.
 
Moses wouldn't really float my boat....Bolasie on the other hand....perhaps a luxury player but one who I think would be a massive positive for us....get bums off seats...can give us the bit of magic we love as spurs fans...a Ginola type player.

I still never see Chelsea dealing with us in a million years...Moses wont be coming even if we bid 10m and the player wants the move.
 
Pirate55 said:
Even more reason to bring in top quality up front. That's why I wanted Benteke and now want Dzeko. No more second raters please. Top quality costs money. We now NEED to spend big in the two or three key positions if we realistically want to compete for top four. No more stocking fillers, ala Saha, Campbell, Pav, etc. Game changers cost big bucks because they effect games and can often be the difference between success and failure. We desperately crave success and have been starved of it for too long.
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How do you think Kane will feel about his understudy earning triple his wages?
 
Nigeyman said:
Moses wouldn't really float my boat....Bolasie on the other hand....perhaps a luxury player but one who I think would be a massive positive for us....get bums off seats...can give us the bit of magic we love as spurs fans...a Ginola type player.

I still never see Chelsea dealing with us in a million years...Moses wont be coming even if we bid 10m and the player wants the move.
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I am not convinced that Bolasie will be able to keep up the form he showed in the second half of last season.
 
DubaiSpur said:
Ha! In an ideal world, I'd applaud your sentiments, and I still entirely agree with them.

However...our owners don't give a single sh*t about success as a primary objective. So, we have to make do with scrimping and saving and window after window of profits. Given that harsh reality, would you rather we spend on a) a top DM, or b) a top striker? Because our income from sales (minus the expected profit and 'agent's fees') won't stretch enough to cover both, imo.
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A top striker. Goals win matches. A game changing stiriker would add 6-10 points per season imo. It is totally unrealistic to rely on Kane alone. As I said, I am not expecting him to have anything like the same impact next season and what is more it is totally unfair on him to expect him to deliver on all fronts by himself alone without the requisite support - which means resting him sometimes and partnering him on other occasions. We need another top striker as a complete matter of priority imo.
 
Pirate55 said:
A top striker. Goals win matches. A game changing stiriker would add 6-10 points per season imo. It is totally unrealistic to rely on Kane alone. As I said, I am not expecting him to have anything like the same impact next season and what is more it is totally unfair on him to expect him to deliver on all fronts by himself alone without the requisite support - which means resting him sometimes and partnering him on other occasions. We need another top striker as a complete matter of priority imo.
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I don't want to rely on a single player to win games for us - Last season fans complained about Kane getting us out of trouble, a couple of seasons before it was Bale - blowing our wedge on another player to score goals ahead of improving positions which would make us more if a functioning team would only see a repeat of that, and correct me of im wrong but you yourself were often one of those who was quick to point out the pitfalls of relying ona player in such a way, doesn't really match up with what you've been saying during this window IMV - the priority should be the team, whilst there are areas of the first XI which need improving.

improving CM would not only help tighten up our defense it would also improve our transitional play, allowing the attacking 4 players to flourish as we will move the ball forward better and cut out opponent attacks sooner.
 
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DubaiSpur said:
Ha! In an ideal world, I'd applaud your sentiments, and I still entirely agree with them.

However...our owners don't give a single sh*t about success as a primary objective. So, we have to make do with scrimping and saving and window after window of profits. Given that harsh reality, would you rather we spend on a) a top DM, or b) a top striker? Because our income from sales (minus the expected profit and 'agent's fees') won't stretch enough to cover both, imo.
Click to expand...

Sorry mate but that is just pure gonads, at least you did not include it in one of your "war and peace " tirades this time.
 
DubaiSpur said:
The way I see it, we'll have raised 50-60 odd million in sales come the end of this window (fwiw, 50 if we don't sell Soldado, 60 if we do, imo). We've likely already spent 20-odd million from that to acquire Alderweireld, Trippier and Wimmer, no doubt with the accompanying 'agent's fees' that braine self-assuredly insists have eaten up our previous large window profits. That gives us some 30-40 million quid to work with: 30 if we're looking for just the DM and wide striker, 40 if we're looking for the DM, wide striker and another forward to replace Soldado. In both scenarios, the more money we spend to buy back-ups to Kane, the less money we'll have available to spend on a top DM. Imagine that we had 30 million quid, and were (hypothetically) looking at three price-tiers for our DMs: Illarramendi or Krychowiak for 20 million, Bender or McCarthy for 15 million, and Camacho or Suarez for 8-10 odd million. That is a position of clear need, and it would behoove us to aim for the top of that list, no? Accordingly, however, that would leave us with 10-odd million to find someone to play as a wide striker, which would logically leave us looking at someone like Moses.

Now, I hate that cheap way of doing business, and hate the dripping mediocrity and ludicrous, absolutely needless self-imposed austerity that said method of conducting operations brings with it. I've made that clear. However, many of you seem to absolutrly love that business model to bits, and it's clear that we won't change it even if Levy did suddenly realize the stupidly self-defeating nature of it (although I don't think he ever will). So, for the sake of keeping @parklane1 sweet (among other things), I've reconciled myself to that seemingly permanent mode of operations. :) Within that structure, all I can hope for is that the areas of need will be addressed by spending as much as we can from what we earn on said areas, with what's left being given to the backup positions. Hence, Moses.

Do I like the idea of an average backup? I trust you know the answer to that. Do I mind it, given my fatigued acceptance of our stupid ultracheap search for eternal profitability? Not really, if (crucially) what we do make from sales is used to pursue a top class player in a position of dire need, and with no more faffing about making Bentaleb play as a DM.



Not up front, we don't. Who's our academy youngster there, Coulthirst? Beyond Soldado, we're short of forwards, both in the first team and in the youth production line. Hence, given my explanation above....I'm not that fussed about Moses coming in.
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sorry Dubai, what i was hinting at was that i think it kind of puts a very large hole in your recent complaints that Levy is fobbing off his managers with bargain basement offerings if you're happy to accept this particular target based on some rumors that Poch wanted him at Soton - very little info is leaked as to which target is primary/secondary etc or indeed which targets are put forward by which member of staff. so if you can accept Moses as a Poch target i don't see how you can say other players you've complained about are any less likely to have been his targets too, at the very least it should highlight that you can't just assume that a cheap signing is not a player wanted by the manager...
 
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