Morgan Schneiderlin

[SpurMeUp]

I think given his talents he'd have got a chance - that's what it should have been though.

A slower introduction to the team would have allowed mental growth along with his more skillful attributes.

He was, unfortunately, brought in on an agenda and we'll never know, but I'd like to see how he would have done with an introduction to the team like Winks is getting.

There is truth in this. Mainly that Bentaleb would have tapered his own expectations if his access to playing time was less. But after a taste of full time first team, the problem was he wanted and needed more. But to say he wasn't a success is wide of the mark. He's a massive success for Spurs.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I wonder what his chances of succeeding would have been if he had been introduced slowly into the team like proper managers do.

Are you saying that you think Pochettino should've used him less in season 2014/15 instead of playing him nearly every week?

It seemed to me that the problem with Bentaleb was simply a clash of personalities between him and Pochettino. It was after Poch took over at Spurs that the problems with Bentaleb seemed to begin to surface. I think Pochettino is a manger who likes his players to do as he instructs them, Bentaleb seems to be the type of player with a lot of confidence that often wanted to do his own thing.

 

[Finney Is Back]

I think given his talents he'd have got a chance - that's what it should have been though.

A slower introduction to the team would have allowed mental growth along with his more skillful attributes.

He was, unfortunately, brought in on an agenda and we'll never know, but I'd like to see how he would have done with an introduction to the team like Winks is getting.

He was brought in because he was a better fit for PL football than some of the players that were at the club at the time. Pochettino obviously also completely agreed with Sherwood as he played Bentaleb consistently in season 14/15 when he came to the club.

 

[scaramanga]

There is truth in this. Mainly that Bentaleb would have tapered his own expectations if his access to playing time was less. But after a taste of full time first team, the problem was he wanted and needed more. But to say he wasn't a success is wide of the mark. He's a massive success for Spurs.

If he was a massive success, then why is he out on loan?

 

[scaramanga]

Are you saying that you think Pochettino should've used him less in season 2014/15 instead of playing him nearly every week?

It seemed to me that the problem with Bentaleb was simply a clash of personalities between him and Pochettino. It was after Poch took over at Spurs that the problems with Bentaleb seemed to begin to surface. I think Pochettino is a manger who likes his players to do as he instructs them, Bentaleb seems to be the type of player with a lot of confidence that often wanted to do his own thing.

Not at all, I think that by that point he was established in the team and playing him was the right thing to do.

What shouldn't have happened was for a kid to get a couple of sub appearances and then be thrown in as first choice on the back of a manager's agenda with no regard as to what damage that could do to a young player's mentality.

That's not what any of the intelligent managers do, as far as I can see it's not what most of the thick ones do, and it's certainly not how young people are successfully managed in any other walk of life.

Bentaleb's attitude and willingness to fight for a spot could have been entirely different had someone with even half a brain been in charge of the team at the time. By the time Poch got here the damage was done.

 

[scaramanga]

He was brought in because he was a better fit for PL football than some of the players that were at the club at the time. Pochettino obviously also completely agreed with Sherwood as he played Bentaleb consistently in season 14/15 when he came to the club.

Once a kid has cemented a place in the first team it's too late to introduce them slowly - there's nothing Poch could have done by that point.

 

[glasgowspur]

Was he not given a couple of games because of an injury crisis and proved to good to drop, in comparison to those around him any way.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

If he was a massive success, then why is he out on loan?

With an £18m agreed fee isn't it??

 

[SpurMeUp]

If he was a massive success, then why is he out on loan?

He wasn't right for us now, for whatever reason. Doesn't make him a failure. £18m has to be one of our top 5 highest player sales! For a player we did not buy. I would call that a massive success for Spurs wouldn't you?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Not at all, I think that by that point he was established in the team and playing him was the right thing to do.

What shouldn't have happened was for a kid to get a couple of sub appearances and then be thrown in as first choice on the back of a manager's agenda with no regard as to what damage that could do to a young player's mentality.

That's not what any of the intelligent managers do, as far as I can see it's not what most of the thick ones do, and it's certainly not how young people are successfully managed in any other walk of life.

Bentaleb's attitude and willingness to fight for a spot could have been entirely different had someone with even half a brain been in charge of the team at the time. By the time Poch got here the damage was done.

I don't think it was anything to do with an agenda.... Like any other manager Sherwood is in the results business. He knew that he had a player in the youth setup who was a better fit than those being picked by his predecessor, so he picked that player to improve the team. The player came in, did well and therefore deserved to keep his place. Pochettino then continued with him as he continued to deserve his place. The falling out between Pochettino and Bentaleb seemed to begin around the time that Bentaleb's advisors were having rather prolonged contract negotiations. There were stories that Poch did not approve of Bentaleb's 'entourage' or him thinking he deserved a much bigger contract at Spurs because the likes of Juventus were sniffing round (so Bentaleb's advisors were telling both Bentaleb and Spurs).

As far as I can tell Pochettino did the exact same thing with Mason that Sherwood did with Bentaleb.... put him in the team and then kept him there because he played well and made the team better. Does that mean that Poch falls out of your "intelligent managers" category and moves into the "thick managers" group?

 

[scaramanga]

I don't think it was anything to do with an agenda.... Like any other manager Sherwood is in the results business. He knew that he had a player in the youth setup who was a better fit than those being picked by his predecessor, so he picked that player to improve the team. The player came in, did well and therefore deserved to keep his place. Pochettino then continued with him as he continued to deserve his place. The falling out between Pochettino and Bentaleb seemed to begin around the time that Bentaleb's advisors were having rather prolonged contract negotiations. There were stories that Poch did not approve of Bentaleb's 'entourage' or him thinking he deserved a much bigger contract at Spurs because the likes of Juventus were sniffing round (so Bentaleb's advisors were telling both Bentaleb and Spurs).

There was definitely an agenda there. Whilst results are vital to managers, one working with the full interests of the club at heart doesn't ruin a young player to get a handful of results - that's typical of Timmeh though.

As far as I can tell Pochettino did the exact same thing with Mason that Sherwood did with Bentaleb.... put him in the team and then kept him there because he played well and made the team better. Does that mean that Poch falls out of your "intelligent managers" category and moves into the "thick managers" group?

Wasn't Mason around 23 when he came into the first team? That's not a youth or even young player in my eyes.

Bentaleb was barely 19 - that's a very different situation.

 

[scaramanga]

He wasn't right for us now, for whatever reason.

Doesn't mean he couldn't have been right for us.

Doesn't make him a failure. £18m has to be one of our top 5 highest player sales! For a player we did not buy. I would call that a massive success for Spurs wouldn't you?

A third of a Sissoko for someone with Bentaleb's potential? That's cheap for me.

I'd far rather he realised his potential with us than we sold him for any amount.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Doesn't mean he couldn't have been right for us.


A third of a Sissoko for someone with Bentaleb's potential? That's cheap for me.

I'd far rather he realised his potential with us than we sold him for any amount.

You would be right...if Sissoko cost 54m.

Bentaleb is old news. Talented, but gone. 18m is plenty for him.

 

[scaramanga]

You would be right...if Sissoko cost 54m.

Bentaleb is old news. Talented, but gone. 18m is plenty for him.

Yeah, should have written two thirds. That's not nearly as much as having someone with his fulfilled potential at the club. In fact, I'm not sure we could convince someone of his fulfilled potential to join us.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Yeah, should have written two thirds. That's not nearly as much as having someone with his fulfilled potential at the club. In fact, I'm not sure we could convince someone of his fulfilled potential to join us.

For me that is exactly the thing with Bentaleb - he won't fullfill the early promise. A talented, capable player, but he wasn't quite. Had he been the dogs dangles, you bet Poch would have found a way to make it work. Players can kick on and get a new lease of life at a new club - Bentaleb has good on him. We should be pleased we will get that much for the lad. He wasn't going anywhere with us. And personally I think he will remain a very decent, but not exceptional, midfielder. We have better on our books now.

 

[scaramanga]

For me that is exactly the thing with Bentaleb - he won't fullfill the early promise. A talented, capable player, but he wasn't quite. Had he been the dogs dangles, you bet Poch would have found a way to make it work. Players can kick on and get a new lease of life at a new club - Bentaleb has good on him. We should be pleased we will get that much for the lad. He wasn't going anywhere with us. And personally I think he will remain a very decent, but not exceptional, midfielder. We have better on our books now.

Do you think it's possible that he'd be more likely to have fulfilled his potential if he'd been introduced properly? Most managers seem to.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Do you think it's possible that he'd be more likely to have fulfilled his potential if he'd been introduced properly? Most managers seem to.

I get what you're saying, but Poch got a lot of out of Bentleb (and Mason) when he took over. Quite sensational what he brought out of them. I'm not sure that had they been slowly introduced we would have seen more, no.

The one area Bentaleb was developing last season under Poch was his shooting. For us, his shots flew by the post but you could see it was coming. Now he's nailed some of those shots. It was what we were looking for from him. But he needed the move to realise it. All is well, each party happy imo.

 

[scaramanga]

I get what you're saying, but Poch got a lot of out of Bentleb (and Mason) when he took over. Quite sensational what he brought out of them. I'm not sure that had they been slowly introduced we would have seen more, no.

Personally, I think all of Bentaleb's restrictions are mental. He has all the ability to make it really big but I'm not sure he has the temperament.

It's apparent that temperament can be affected by the early parts of a professional career, it's why so many managers are so careful with youngsters. So I don't think it's a stretch to say that Bentaleb would have stood a better chance of reaching those heights (and of fitting in with Poch) had Timmeh taken the care over him that most other managers do.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Bentaleb allegedly gave Poch the ultimatum of 'play me or I'll look elsewhere.' If true, then I could well believe Poch taking the 'or else' option. He's clearly not a manager to be held to ultimatums.

As for the thread topic. There were some reports from the Poch press conference pre the Soton game where he said we had never been interested in Schneiderlin and had not tried to buy him. There may be some smoke and mirrors to some of his statements but if it's true that we weren't interested a year ago, would we be now?

 

[afsoc4life]

^I will not blame a player who makes that ultimatum. At the end of the day, for Nabil to improve he has to play. It is ambition. The same way in my workplace, if I am not giving worthwhile development - I am leaving.