I'd take the statistical measurements over the opinions of a scout, certainly.
The personal interaction would come in when the manager says what the team is lacking (aided by data). The data can then be used to choose how to fill those gaps.
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Modeling vs Subjective Opinion
- Thread starter alekaras
- Start date
The personal interaction would come in when the manager says what the team is lacking (aided by data). The data can then be used to choose how to fill those gaps.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It's absolutely not. It's like a game of chess, but with infinite squares and at least 24 brains (if you are being generous) involved at any one time. It's more complex than any computer can yet model.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Football is not a simple game?
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
It would have died out 100 years ago if it was. One of the reason for its endurance is that no one can fully understand it (in a socratic sense).
There are genetics, exercise science, psychology, physics, social behaviour, strategy, spacial/geometrics - all kinds of components that effect it. Blimey, I know someone whose full-time job is to investigate just the aerodynamic behaviour of footballs.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Rubbish.
Gutter Boy
Tim Sherwood
Do you think people will still be playing simple things like Pokemon Go, Sonic the Hedgehog, Frisbee, roller skating or Tenball in 100 years' time?
Whereas football was codified in 1863 and chess has been around since the sixth century AD - precisely because they are complex and there's always something new to learn about them.
Whereas football was codified in 1863 and chess has been around since the sixth century AD - precisely because they are complex and there's always something new to learn about them.
To be fair, I actually think you are both right, and that is the appeal of the best sports
- simple game conceptually and to play at lower levels = absolutely (put the ball in the net)
- at highest/professional levels, its a modern spot with all the complexities of improving the athletes, tactically trying to take advantage of limitations in the game, plus the business model around it.
- simple game conceptually and to play at lower levels = absolutely (put the ball in the net)
- at highest/professional levels, its a modern spot with all the complexities of improving the athletes, tactically trying to take advantage of limitations in the game, plus the business model around it.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
Of course there is more to it then kicking a ball into the net, but those first two things you mentioned are not that hard to achieve if approached in the correct way. To those who are trained and educated in being able to do just that ( and despite what some say it does not need reams of paper to be able to achieve it) its straight forward.
The business model would be run by those at the top ( ie the money men) it should have no effect on the day to day work of the coaches, trainers and those working to improve players.
Glenda's Legs
Paul Walsh
I suppose the point to some extent is that because so much Big Data is now available and because the analytical tools to handle that big data are now available, it would be negligent or at the very least foolish, to not use it/them. That's not to say decisions have to be made on big data analysis alone (although isn't that what the Brentford chairman wanted to do and one of the reasons why Warburton left? (anyone know how that worked out, as an aside?))
We still employ a network of scouts and they can act in a complimentary way alongside the analytical stuff. So analytics identify a potential player - a scout goes to watch him. A scout identifies a prospect - we then acquire/buy data on that player and run the comparative analytics to learn more.
The subjective is always likely to come into play however because when looking at a team dynamic there are personal, social attributes that may be considered important (and we know they are in a Poch team) and these attributes may be harder to judge via purely programmatic means.
We still employ a network of scouts and they can act in a complimentary way alongside the analytical stuff. So analytics identify a potential player - a scout goes to watch him. A scout identifies a prospect - we then acquire/buy data on that player and run the comparative analytics to learn more.
The subjective is always likely to come into play however because when looking at a team dynamic there are personal, social attributes that may be considered important (and we know they are in a Poch team) and these attributes may be harder to judge via purely programmatic means.
Bullet
Colin Calderwood
It isn't, but the real beauty of it is that it appears to be.
Simple people can think they fully understand football at a simple level and therefore enjoy it that way. Then there are people who know and can understand more than all of us put together at such an in-depth level most people probably can't comprehend it.
It's like the weather. Any fudgewit can look up and say "It's raining" or "It's sunny" - that's like 80 English football - Redknapp, Sherwood et al. But to truly understand what's going on you need to master chaos theory, advanced computer modelling, statistical analysis, etc.
Seedy Ron
Jimmy Neighbour
And still get it wrong on a regular basis [emoji6]
Not as wrong as those praying to Sun gods saying "Weather is a simple game"
Baleforce
Les Bennett
A large part of Clough's success came from working with a nerd.
parklane1
Tony Galvin
We have had this kind of conversation before mate and it just goes round in circles, having worked in football for most of my life i never found it hard to understand, and those that do are in the wrong job. Just like every profession that takes dedication to the job you are doing.
It's always easy to understand something at a superficial level. Over the past 5 or so years the football world has started to discover just how small that superficial level is.
Football is not unique in that way. Since computers and large data sets have become commonplace, pretty much every single industry there is has or will reach that point. The reaction you're having is precisely the reaction many people in all of those industries had too - eventually those people either embraced the new methods or faded away.