Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[Finney Is Back]

You are kidding right?
Rose looked like he plateaud and would not really kick on.

You knew what about kane during sher woods time? What exactly did kane show to even suggest that he could reach this level of consistency or standard? Kane was still getting scrutinised way up until the end of last season.

Dembele has never played to this level only showing glimpses.

Eriksen is now a proper player and not a you tube highlight specialist. He again was stagnant in his application.

I think you are re-writing history a little with Rose there. He was developing his full-back play every season, with his standing getting higher every season. He has continued to do that under Poch, but he improved under Redknapp initially (who first moved him to left back), AVB and Sherwood also.
Kane looked very good a the tail end of Sherwood's half season. He was also extremely highly rated in our youth set-up right back to when Redknapp was manager.
Dembele was very good under AVB. He carried out the manager's instructions and game plan perfectly. The problem was AVB's game plan not Dembele's performances.

How much Pochettino has done in terms of developing the players or it just being natural improvement made by young players is arguable (for example Redknapp seems to get very little credit for developing Bale who was apparently "always going to get better")

What I feel Pochettino has done however is knit the pieces together so that every player knows exactly what their job is. Every player knows what space to occupy on the pitch, they all know who to press and more importantly when to press. They also all seem to be prepared to pass to any other player in the team and not a single player believes he is bigger than the team and will shirk his responsibilities in terms of work-rate.

 

[braineclipse]

I think you are re-writing history a little with Rose there. He was developing his full-back play every season, with his standing getting higher every season. He has continued to do that under Poch, but he improved under Redknapp initially (who first moved him to left back), AVB and Sherwood also.
Kane looked very good a the tail end of Sherwood's half season. He was also extremely highly rated in our youth set-up right back to when Redknapp was manager.
Dembele was very good under AVB. He carried out the manager's instructions and game plan perfectly. The problem was AVB's game plan not Dembele's performances.

How much Pochettino has done in terms of developing the players or it just being natural improvement made by young players is arguable (for example Redknapp seems to get very little credit for developing Bale who was apparently "always going to get better")

What I feel Pochettino has done however is knit the pieces together so that every player knows exactly what their job is. Every player knows what space to occupy on the pitch, they all know who to press and more importantly when to press. They also all seem to be prepared to pass to any other player in the team and not a single player believes he is bigger than the team and will shirk his responsibilities in terms of work-rate.

I find it strange that you one hand argue that under Pochettino this is arguably just natural improvement, whereas you claim Redknapp didn't get enough credit? Surely if you wanted Redknapp to get more credit you should also be for Pochettino getting a huge slice of the credit for the development of our current players?

The main point for me is the volume of players getting better though.

Yes Bale improved massively under Redknapp, and made additional huge strides under AVB. Pochettino is continuing to improve many young players though. That to me is at least part of the difference. And why for me Pochettino continues to deserve a lot more praise on this than Redknapp and AVB. Look at Pochettino's record at Southampton and Spurs. The sheer amount of young players he's helped take that next step (and the step before and the step after) is staggering. And not comparable to anything Redknapp or AVB did. Despite Bale's tremendous rise.

To draw a comparison or two:
Ferguson's work with young players. Yes it can be argued that Beckham would have made it anyway. Or that Giggs would have gotten better anyway. But all those players... That certainly has to point towards Ferguson.
Barca's youth system. Yes it can be argued that Messi would have been outstanding regardless. Or that Iniesta clearly just has bags of talent. But all those players. That has to point towards the system working.

You can nitpick at any one of the players mentioned above. Or at any of the other players not mentioned in the post you quoted. But the totality of it points squarely at Pochettino, as does his record at Southampton.

 

[billyiddo]

Just have a look at how Southamptons young players done once they left Poch/Southampton - he obviously was a key factor in them playing so well, no reason to think the same is not true here

 

[Kenyan Spur]

Sometimes mid game he has other things to focus on... Like managing the team.

What's wrong with Pochettino? Absolutely fudgeing nothing that's what.

Agree 100%. He doesn't need to celebrate each goal or moment.
He has a job to do.
Celebrating a GREAT win is different.
FFS look at that video. Hugging every player including the bench.
And acknowledging the fans.
CLASS.

 

[StephenH]

Pochettino is going have some serious suitors throwing big money at him this summer.
I hope we can keep them at bay, but it's going to be very tough.
Just a horrid feeling that Man U will break the bank to get him rather than Mourinho.
I really hope I'm wrong but I'm very concerned. His stock is high, just imagine how high it will go if the unmentionable happens

 

[The egyptian]

Eriksen is now a proper player and not a you tube highlight specialist. He again was stagnant in his application.

Especially about eriksen, I am sure there were rumours that Dortmund skipped singing him because he was inconsistent and lack the ambition to improve. No one can say so now.

 

[Glenda's Legs]

Pochettino is going have some serious suitors throwing big money at him this summer.
I hope we can keep them at bay, but it's going to be very tough.
Just a horrid feeling that Man U will break the bank to get him rather than Mourinho.
I really hope I'm wrong but I'm very concerned. His stock is high, just imagine how high it will go if the unmentionable happens

I honestly don't see it happening. Poch strikes me as a man of principle and I think he will want to see out what he has started. And IF we did win the title, then he will have the challenge next year of a) defending it; and b) taking us as far as possible in the CL.

There has been talk about a new contract for Poch this summer, and I am sure Levy will be on the case with this. No way would he want to lose Poch after the season we are having.

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Pochettino is going have some serious suitors throwing big money at him this summer.
I hope we can keep them at bay, but it's going to be very tough.
Just a horrid feeling that Man U will break the bank to get him rather than Mourinho.
I really hope I'm wrong but I'm very concerned. His stock is high, just imagine how high it will go if the unmentionable happens

They will but would he take it...

We can't do anything more as fans other than make him realise he is at a club where he has the time, expect and faith of the fans

We show him the love and he pays it back

 

[SUIYHA]

I think you are re-writing history a little with Rose there. He was developing his full-back play every season, with his standing getting higher every season. He has continued to do that under Poch, but he improved under Redknapp initially (who first moved him to left back), AVB and Sherwood also.
Kane looked very good a the tail end of Sherwood's half season. He was also extremely highly rated in our youth set-up right back to when Redknapp was manager.
Dembele was very good under AVB. He carried out the manager's instructions and game plan perfectly. The problem was AVB's game plan not Dembele's performances.

How much Pochettino has done in terms of developing the players or it just being natural improvement made by young players is arguable (for example Redknapp seems to get very little credit for developing Bale who was apparently "always going to get better")

What I feel Pochettino has done however is knit the pieces together so that every player knows exactly what their job is. Every player knows what space to occupy on the pitch, they all know who to press and more importantly when to press. They also all seem to be prepared to pass to any other player in the team and not a single player believes he is bigger than the team and will shirk his responsibilities in terms of work-rate.

Danny Rose had been utter garbage in the season before Poch. Only need to take a look at the responses to the announcement of his new contract to illustrate the point:

https://twitter.com/x/status/494852661792227328

The point has been made already, but there is also a reason why the likes of Lallana, Lambert and Lovren who had slipped under the radar their entire careers then suddenly looked decent enough under Poch to convince Liverpool to invest in them, only for them to revert to their true form under worse managers. Good managers make players look better.

 

[Gazzasrightboot]

I find it strange that you one hand argue that under Pochettino this is arguably just natural improvement, whereas you claim Redknapp didn't get enough credit? Surely if you wanted Redknapp to get more credit you should also be for Pochettino getting a huge slice of the credit for the development of our current players?

The main point for me is the volume of players getting better though.

Yes Bale improved massively under Redknapp, and made additional huge strides under AVB. Pochettino is continuing to improve many young players though. That to me is at least part of the difference. And why for me Pochettino continues to deserve a lot more praise on this than Redknapp and AVB. Look at Pochettino's record at Southampton and Spurs. The sheer amount of young players he's helped take that next step (and the step before and the step after) is staggering. And not comparable to anything Redknapp or AVB did. Despite Bale's tremendous rise.

To draw a comparison or two:
Ferguson's work with young players. Yes it can be argued that Beckham would have made it anyway. Or that Giggs would have gotten better anyway. But all those players... That certainly has to point towards Ferguson.
Barca's youth system. Yes it can be argued that Messi would have been outstanding regardless. Or that Iniesta clearly just has bags of talent. But all those players. That has to point towards the system working.

You can nitpick at any one of the players mentioned above. Or at any of the other players not mentioned in the post you quoted. But the totality of it points squarely at Pochettino, as does his record at Southampton.

I agree with this and would also add that you only have to look at the Kane thread to see just how he was rated towards the tail end of Sherwood's reign. Plenty of posters had written him off as rubbish and not what we needed in order to be a top 4 team. Also, Redknapp plainly put his faith in BAE rather than Rose for the LB position. Plenty of other players had been written off as well and we went through lots of transfer windows (in particular Poch's first) with lots of posters complaining about the lack of signings. Hardly a ringing endorsement of the quality of our squad! What's more, as @billyiddo said, just look at how Southampton have progressed since Poch leaving them. Then look at the players that played for him that are now at other clubs (lallana, Clyne, Lovren). Even Schneiderlin is looking worse.

But all that is by the by. What is unquestionable is that Poch has made us a better team. He has made us tougher to beat but also a very energetic and entertaining team. He has taken a group of talented yet ineffective footballers, and given us a style of play where players know what they need to do. We are fitter, more organised and mentally strong. For the first time in a long time, we are actually involved in a title race which will give our ambitious players food for thought as to whether or not they want to angle for a move away. The future looks solid as our players are young and want to be here.

 

[Finney Is Back]

Just have a look at how Southamptons young players done once they left Poch/Southampton - he obviously was a key factor in them playing so well, no reason to think the same is not true here

Is that more evidence that he develops a TEAM that is greater than the sum of it's parts as opposed to developing the player themselves?

 

[Finney Is Back]

Danny Rose had been utter garbage in the season before Poch. Only need to take a look at the responses to the announcement of his new contract to illustrate the point:

https://twitter.com/x/status/494852661792227328

The point has been made already, but there is also a reason why the likes of Lallana, Lambert and Lovren who had slipped under the radar their entire careers then suddenly looked decent enough under Poch to convince Liverpool to invest in them, only for them to revert to their true form under worse managers. Good managers make players look better.

You fail to realise that a majority of football fans don't really have much of a clue about football. Rose always had excellent attributes, he struggled because playing fullback for Spurs generally meant that he to try to defend against two or more players doubling up on him while getting little assistance from his team mates coming across/back to help. Rose's improvement is just as much about him now having a lot more help from Dier/Dembele/Eriksen/whoever when teams look to overload us out wide.

Also your other point there would suggest to me that the players weren't developed that much - otherwise surely they would've taken that improvement to Liverpool? But instead the players were shaped into a team that was more effective than the sum of it's parts. That's what I think Poch's true strength is - building a 1 to 11 unit who all know exactly what their jobs are and more so they believe 100% in the system and their team mates so carry out the manager's instructions consistently.

 

[braineclipse]

Is that more evidence that he develops a TEAM that is greater than the sum of it's parts as opposed to developing the player themselves?

Very difficult to do one without the other when working with this many young players.

He's developing these players to become good players for us in our system. Not to be good players for some club that might one day buy them and play a different system.

 

[SUIYHA]

You fail to realise that a majority of football fans don't really have much of a clue about football. Rose always had excellent attributes, he struggled because playing fullback for Spurs generally meant that he to try to defend against two or more players doubling up on him while getting little assistance from his team mates coming across/back to help. Rose's improvement is just as much about him now having a lot more help from Dier/Dembele/Eriksen/whoever when teams look to overload us out wide.

Also your other point there would suggest to me that the players weren't developed that much - otherwise surely they would've taken that improvement to Liverpool? But instead the players were shaped into a team that was more effective than the sum of it's parts. That's what I think Poch's true strength is - building a 1 to 11 unit who all know exactly what their jobs are and more so they believe 100% in the system and their team mates so carry out the manager's instructions consistently.

His decision making was terrible, regularly got caught out of position, crossed the ball like a coked up Aaron Lennon, kept giving away clumsy fouls, and his mistakes were often high profile and led to defeats. I still have nightmares about that bloody Rosicky goal...

Yes he was always fast and a reasonably good dribbler, but let's not pretend his form hadn't been utter dogbrick for a long time before the improvement under Poch

 

[indospurs]

This season is scaring me, Poche is just unreal in turning us into a real team, a real club with such a feel good factor. Winning does that. And in manager terms, he is still so young ! He has got the lads, the support staff, the club, Levy and all of us BELIEVING !!! He certainly has a vision and a great sense,feeling of the players and the team.

Keep him happy, at all and any cost. Keep on making him feel the LOVE and the family atmos, before we go completely plastic and hooray henry - as well as a Global Brand (we are on the way there).

 

[Finney Is Back]

Very difficult to do one without the other when working with this many young players.

He's developing these players to become good players for us in our system. Not to be good players for some club that might one day buy them and play a different system.

Fair enough.... My thoughts are that the players we had already had huge amounts of talent, they didn't need much developing, what they needed was organisation.

Some of those players that were mentioned specifically in the post that I commented on originally - Rose, Kane, Eriksen, Dembele. All of these players are blessed with at least 2 of the main attributes required to be a top class footballer.... skill, vision, pace, strength, confidence. What they needed was a manager who could come in and provide the organisation to ensure that their attributes could be harnessed into a unit. Funny enough there were two things that I thought we lacked somewhat prior to the Pochettino revolution - fitness and balls. He has added those two things in spades.

 

[billyiddo]

Is that more evidence that he develops a TEAM that is greater than the sum of it's parts as opposed to developing the player themselves?

I'm not really sure, either way the end result is him getting more out of the players than anyone else - whether that's collectively or individually

 

[LutonSpurs]

If he doesn't get manager of the month I wont go Gooner and do a petition but I will be upset.

 

[lurker of old]

They also all seem to be prepared to pass to any other player in the team and not a single player believes he is bigger than the team and will shirk his responsibilities in terms of work-rate.

As an all round team, this has to be the best since 85 or 86 - and maybe is even better. To have such a tight defence, coupled with flair players in midfield, plus a work ethic and team spirit, which is probably the envy of virtually every other club...it is remarkable. It makes me want to take the next 3 months off work to do nothing but watch, think and dream SPURS

 

[Finney Is Back]

His decision making was terrible, regularly got caught out of position, crossed the ball like a coked up Aaron Lennon, kept giving away clumsy fouls, and his mistakes were often high profile and led to defeats. I still have nightmares about that bloody Rosicky goal...

Yes he was always fast and a reasonably good dribbler, but let's not pretend his form hadn't been utter dogbrick for a long time before the improvement under Poch

It hadn't been, I thought he generally did very well indeed considering how exposed he often was. Rose still hits more bad crosses than good ones, but the number of crossing positions that he gets himself into still make him a better option than almost any other fullback out there. Rose often gave away clumsy fouls because he wasn't protected by his other players, it meant that he was having to play the game from one of positional weakness, rather than one of positional strength as he can do now that he has the right protection. I have yet to see a fullback who could cope defensively when having to deal with more than one player - Rose did as good a job as anyone when this was the case for him at Spurs. Now that the organisation is better around him, he naturally looks a better defender.