Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked

[nayimfromthehalfwayline]

He hasn’t also gone full brick or bust in cup games to get results and it’s worked

Usually in a reactive, not proactive way. Which is what I was talking about.

For example, Saturday, Id have liked a much more forward thinking side - he played it more secure.

 

[nayenezgani]

I said before to Parklane that I can take hits, but I’ll be buggered in a month of Sunday’s if I’ll allow you of all people to brand me as a wind up merchant. The lord fudging mayor of replying to people’s posts with hyperbole and inflammatory words, designed with no other intention than provoking an aggressive response in a very un gentlemanlike fashion.

Even the briefest skim of your posting history shows to me a ‘tedious’ pattern of your usual posts.

One paragraph, start with words like ‘ffs’ ‘nonsense’ followed by username, followed by a little bit more of your thoughts but nothing with to much context so you could be challenged yourself, ending with words like ‘drivel’ or ‘deluded’

Ah let’s talk about ‘pathetic’ something or someone who goes from 0mph to angry in 3 seconds flat whilst others at least have the good grace to go through ‘second’ ‘third’ ‘fourth’ gear before arriving to that point. Robspur who I know is probably still hand shaking mad with me and would have no qualms of whipping down his kecks flicking open a newspaper and pooping all over my beautifully manicured front lawn, at least had enough about him to address the points I raised in good faith, something I have enormous respect for.

Now I wonder what I could feel ‘sad’ about...ah yes I feel sad that I have to react to a fellow spurs fan in this way. Yes absolutely, sad that you epitomise to me what I believe is a falling of standards on this forum over the last few years with how people interact with one another and in the way they conduct themselves when they have different views.

Also sad that Dubai had to make you aware that your as guilty as a little puppy sitting next to a little lump of poop, for berating people as lesser fans when that don’t share a way of thinking when it’s exactly what YOU do your goddamn self!

So in conclusion and with a clear desire to be ‘moving on’ perhaps we can both agree it’s in ours and the rest of this forums best interests that we ignore each other and not comment on each other’s ramblings from this point forth.

I get people being angry with me but it’s clearly escaped your keen eyes that in most of my exchanges, I have not tried to inflame any tensions and thus worked against being a wind up merchant the very thing your so adamant that I am.

P.s when you call me by my name ‘Nigel’ just before insulting me it really gives me a stiffy.

I won't carry this on further other than to say; you epitomise for me everything that's wrong with some modern Spurs fans. We'll leave it at that.

Cheers Nigel, enjoy the stiffy.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Steff,

Something has clearly gone very awry between us, were aboard the titanic heading for an iceberg, now I’m going to try my utmost to get my following words right, why? because way back when I first joined this forum and made my first post, back in 2013 or so, and people were wondering who this little upstart opinionated so and so was, you the very first and I mean the very FIRST! To make me feel welcome and accepted on here! So whilst I wouldn’t dare to hope that we will be rocking about in an antique car, sliding our hands down the back window, perhaps maybe just maybe once you have carefully read this I might be able to stand at the front of the ship, my arms outstretched, as you embrace me and we both drink in a beautiful sunset... we shall see.

The unpleasant things first...yesterday when I got in from work, I did indeed spend some happy time with my 7 month old daughter ‘Ilithyia’ surprising as it is I was in a very happy mood.

My messages about ‘cheer u up later’ game of thrones analogy’ (because we have opposing views)and calling my daughter Mauricia (me making myself look hypocritical in naming my daughter after our manager after having a pop at him) was only my poor attempt at humour and to try and break the tension between us.

I very much regret you have interpreted this as snide remarks, it really wasn’t meant to be so.

Pochettino, we have clearly different views, but I have tried to make it very clear to both yourself and others on here, that I very much respect their opinions albeit those beliefs were, but are no longer my own.

I genuinely admire you ferocious passion to defend him I really do.

Whether or not we agree on something steff, and again going back to what I said about when I joined here, I have always held the utmost respect for you, and still continue to do so, although in plain terms the way you addressed ‘Jurgen’ the other day, was for me, very much beneath you, and not something I have seen from you before.

Yet I think I know why 1. You wanted a delay before the bone picking 2. You spoke to Jurgen that way because ‘forgive me’ you are emotional because you (like me) are still very much hurting from that result.

Many like yourself maybe disappointed in me and feel I have changed for the worse but consider I may not be the only one.

The steff I knew would perhaps reflect on how he spoke and set things to rights, of course I’d never presume to tell you what to do.

Lastly the chavski thing to clear up. Robspur made a case I believe in sticking with Poch as our likeliest chance to win trophies, I mentioned them as a counter to that point, that’s all mate, I am fully on board with your way of thinking towards them, but I don’t think it’s unreasonable for me to point out they have chopped and changed management yet delivered titles on an annoyingly regular basis.

That’s all I want to say, no more pitches, I’ll let you decide whether I’m being genuine or otherwise.

Thanks for answering those questions as well.

Jeez...your Chelsea comparison is so full of holes.

When Poch says...other teams have a different project, they operate in a different way to us. You understand what that means?

Money makes mistakes irrelevant. Chelsea can give massive compensation payments to parting managers, pay compensation to steal their next top managers, give £300m to the next incoming manager, right off players that cost a load but ended up sh*t. We can't do any of that.

It's like playing a fruit machine with endless money. You'll have a few jackpots literally because you keep pumping the money in. You're not using your brain... you're just pumping the money in.

 

[Nigeyman]

Jeez...your Chelsea comparison is so full of holes.

When Poch says...other teams have a different project, they operate in a different way to us. You understand what that means?

Money makes mistakes irrelevant. Chelsea can give massive compensation payments to parting managers, pay compensation to steal their next top managers, give £300m to the next incoming manager, right off players that cost a load but ended up sh*t. We can't do any of that.

It's like playing a fruit machine with endless money. You'll have a few jackpots literally because you keep pumping the money in. You're not using your brain... you're just pumping the money in.

Beautiful analogy by the way, in terms of hole filling I have something newly acquired which could possibly help in that regard, or whether you need some more hanging capacity for your wet towels in the bathroom.

At work with no room to breathe so I’m going to answer you and ralziel properly later on.

 

[Nigeyman]

Appreciate this mate.
Yes, I get emotional and defensive of the side at such times. I had made a long journey to be there, and in fairness, probably would’ve been best advised to avoid the internet for a few days!!!! I will say that truthfully, no response is beneath me because, well, it was me. I stand by it.

That being said, we move on my friend and great to see we can find if not agreement (which is unimportant), resolution (which is most important).

Apologies for any dingdonginess on my part.
COYS!

No apologies needed, water under the bridge.

Cuddle?

 

[Daisuk]

Mate, other have responded to your questions, let me make a few points

- Tottenham Hotspur have won less than 20 titles/trophies in over 130 years of existence, so I'm not sure what success you are comparing Poch to.
- The run of top 4/5 finishes we are on is actually the most consistent in the history of the club
- The clubs you referenced, Leicester, Wigan, etc simply had their once in 50 years fluke happen in the recent past, if any of them repeated the success you might have a point but all of them have reverted to norm.

I really don't mean to be a dingdong, but if you follow the sport for trophies, you have picked the wrong club. We will be better placed in the future, but if you are expecting trophies every year or two, again very misplaced sense of entitlement considering current state of game.

But even if we accept every one of your criticisms as gospel, what is your alternative?

- What manager better than Poch are we going to attract over PSG, Barca, United, Chelsea, Juve (who all will likely require a new manager now or in next 12 months)
- Who are you going to buy to change the squad results and how are we going to close the gap and get a better squad knowing that each of our rivals (who already spend 2X+ wages and have spent between 350M+ - 1.2B+ on their current squads) are also likely to spend another 200M each this summer?

I completely understand frustration, want us to do better, all your points but the real world doesn't work like that.

Tottenham Hotspur is not an elite club, let that sink in. I love this club for some tribal instinct that I cannot explain, and I wish we could win every trophy every year and maybe one day we will (after all, 15 years ago playing in Europe was a dream), but to sit here and try to pick apart every decision Poch, Levy make, and every performance each player gives compared to clubs that have decades of advantage over us is just a bit like complaining you weren't born rich and don't understand why the other Donald Trump drives the bugatti ..

Post of the year contender, in my opinion. Well said!

 

[thfcsteff]

Jeez...your Chelsea comparison is so full of holes.

When Poch says...other teams have a different project, they operate in a different way to us. You understand what that means?

Money makes mistakes irrelevant. Chelsea can give massive compensation payments to parting managers, pay compensation to steal their next top managers, give £300m to the next incoming manager, right off players that cost a load but ended up sh*t. We can't do any of that.

It's like playing a fruit machine with endless money. You'll have a few jackpots literally because you keep pumping the money in. You're not using your brain... you're just pumping the money in.

Personally, I think it comes down to how desperate people are for trophies. Or how they define “winning” (and these are very subjective topics). Me? I think “winning” like Chelsea do is so tainted with filth I would feel very dirty. I think, personally, the “success”
Poch (and Levy) have had in turning us from a lovely but soft-centred sleeping giant to a perennial CL side who just contested their first CL final, and who have the best stadium/facilities arguably in football all achieved with fiscal responsibility and no sugar daddy sprinkles, is incredible success and achievement. The pride I have not just in our journey but our method, is immeasurable.

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Personally, I think it comes down to how desperate people are for trophies. Or how they define “winning” (and these are very subjective topics). Me? I think “winning” like Chelsea do is so tainted with filth I would feel very dirty. I think, personally, the “success”
Poch (and Levy) have had in turning us from a lovely but soft-centred sleeping giant to a perennial CL side who just contested their first CL final, and who have the best stadium/facilities arguably in football all achieved with fiscal responsibility and no sugar daddy sprinkles, is incredible success and achievement. The pride I have not just in our journey but our method, is immeasurable.

100%

 

[Raziel]

Personally, I think it comes down to how desperate people are for trophies. Or how they define “winning” (and these are very subjective topics). Me? I think “winning” like Chelsea do is so tainted with filth I would feel very dirty. I think, personally, the “success”
Poch (and Levy) have had in turning us from a lovely but soft-centred sleeping giant to a perennial CL side who just contested their first CL final, and who have the best stadium/facilities arguably in football all achieved with fiscal responsibility and no sugar daddy sprinkles, is incredible success and achievement. The pride I have not just in our journey but our method, is immeasurable.

Because we (as a society) don't want to experience anything anymore, we want a selfie instead of looking, we want a trophy/tickbox instead of a season of entertainment

Being successfully in life/sport doesn't mean you have to be better than everyone else (would be nice) ..

 

[thfcsteff]

Because we (as a society) don't want to experience anything anymore, we want a selfie instead of looking, we want a trophy/tickbox instead of a season of entertainment

Being successfully in life/sport doesn't mean you have to be better than everyone else (would be nice) ..

One of the. more interesting angles of our five years is that rivals are increasingly quiet. The banter and jokes have slowed to a bare dribble. There is (grudging) admiration for our current situation and what we have achieved. There is a knowledge that if we continue on this path, we will have a dynasty sooner than later.

 

[NaijaSpurs]

Mate, other have responded to your questions, let me make a few points

- Tottenham Hotspur have won less than 20 titles/trophies in over 130 years of existence, so I'm not sure what success you are comparing Poch to.
- The run of top 4/5 finishes we are on is actually the most consistent in the history of the club
- The clubs you referenced, Leicester, Wigan, etc simply had their once in 50 years fluke happen in the recent past, if any of them repeated the success you might have a point but all of them have reverted to norm.

I really don't mean to be a dingdong, but if you follow the sport for trophies, you have picked the wrong club. We will be better placed in the future, but if you are expecting trophies every year or two, again very misplaced sense of entitlement considering current state of game.

But even if we accept every one of your criticisms as gospel, what is your alternative?

- What manager better than Poch are we going to attract over PSG, Barca, United, Chelsea, Juve (who all will likely require a new manager now or in next 12 months)
- Who are you going to buy to change the squad results and how are we going to close the gap and get a better squad knowing that each of our rivals (who already spend 2X+ wages and have spent between 350M+ - 1.2B+ on their current squads) are also likely to spend another 200M each this summer?

I completely understand frustration, want us to do better, all your points but the real world doesn't work like that.

Tottenham Hotspur is not an elite club, let that sink in. I love this club for some tribal instinct that I cannot explain, and I wish we could win every trophy every year and maybe one day we will (after all, 15 years ago playing in Europe was a dream), but to sit here and try to pick apart every decision Poch, Levy make, and every performance each player gives compared to clubs that have decades of advantage over us is just a bit like complaining you weren't born rich and don't understand why the other Donald Trump drives the bugatti ..

Raziel, if I could give you 10 likes for this post I would have. But then they would have only evened up the 10 dislikes I should have given you when you turned on our boys a few years ago when we hammered by Saudi Sportswashing Machine at the end of the season.

But seriously you are talking a lot of sense mate

 

[Danishfurniturelover]

One of the. more interesting angles of our five years is that rivals are increasingly quiet. The banter and jokes have slowed to a bare dribble. There is (grudging) admiration for our current situation and what we have achieved. There is a knowledge that if we continue on this path, we will have a dynasty sooner than later.

The is a little look of fear in the back of some of their eyes.

 

[Nigeyman]

Jeez...your Chelsea comparison is so full of holes.

When Poch says...other teams have a different project, they operate in a different way to us. You understand what that means?

Money makes mistakes irrelevant. Chelsea can give massive compensation payments to parting managers, pay compensation to steal their next top managers, give £300m to the next incoming manager, right off players that cost a load but ended up sh*t. We can't do any of that.

It's like playing a fruit machine with endless money. You'll have a few jackpots literally because you keep pumping the money in. You're not using your brain... you're just pumping the money in.

When Poch says we have a different project I do understand, I know very well we are not state run like city, or effectively Chelsea, I do understand the revenue streams of Liverpool and United and the other lot are greater than ours.

I’m not saying Poch shouldn’t talk about our position but I do believe he has over elaborated to much this year, he has spoken too much if you like.

Spoken so much about finances and projects and working in different ways, that a part of me can’t help wondering whether he’s laying down a safety net for not winning titles, or in simple terms providing a ready made excuse.

Cynical of me I know but fans can become the embodiment of their teams managers if you like.

While I’m definitely not dismissing all of that, I do feel like our fans are becoming a little to obsessed with finances, and projects, and such like.

I’m not sure I agree with your statement that money makes mistakes irrelevant. Do you mean managerial mistakes?

I agree with you that we cannot and haven’t been able to behave like Chelsea, in terms of all the compo, signing on fees, players fees and wages...no arguments from me with that.

I used Chelsea in the context of continuity vs chop and change. The discussions over the advantages or disadvantages of continuity vs turnover could be debated a very long time. Watford is another club minus trophies that have developed strongly with a similar manager turnover.

If we are getting back to what me and robspur we’re talking about then are we just debating whether we are more likely to win titles with Pochettino or someone else?

On this point whether I still believe in Poch or not obviously doesn’t matter, someone already made a case towards me saying of course he deserves another year with financial backing and I agreed! He has more than earned that right.

Whilst we haven’t got the money of Chelsea if Poch had been doing badly in these last five years make no mistakes Daniel would have paid up the compensation though I think.

 

[Nigeyman]

Mate, other have responded to your questions, let me make a few points

- Tottenham Hotspur have won less than 20 titles/trophies in over 130 years of existence, so I'm not sure what success you are comparing Poch to.
- The run of top 4/5 finishes we are on is actually the most consistent in the history of the club
- The clubs you referenced, Leicester, Wigan, etc simply had their once in 50 years fluke happen in the recent past, if any of them repeated the success you might have a point but all of them have reverted to norm.

I really don't mean to be a dingdong, but if you follow the sport for trophies, you have picked the wrong club. We will be better placed in the future, but if you are expecting trophies every year or two, again very misplaced sense of entitlement considering current state of game.

But even if we accept every one of your criticisms as gospel, what is your alternative?

- What manager better than Poch are we going to attract over PSG, Barca, United, Chelsea, Juve (who all will likely require a new manager now or in next 12 months)
- Who are you going to buy to change the squad results and how are we going to close the gap and get a better squad knowing that each of our rivals (who already spend 2X+ wages and have spent between 350M+ - 1.2B+ on their current squads) are also likely to spend another 200M each this summer?

I completely understand frustration, want us to do better, all your points but the real world doesn't work like that.

Tottenham Hotspur is not an elite club, let that sink in. I love this club for some tribal instinct that I cannot explain, and I wish we could win every trophy every year and maybe one day we will (after all, 15 years ago playing in Europe was a dream), but to sit here and try to pick apart every decision Poch, Levy make, and every performance each player gives compared to clubs that have decades of advantage over us is just a bit like complaining you weren't born rich and don't understand why the other Donald Trump drives the bugatti ..

To start with if you do get post of the year for this, do be sure to give me an honourable mention in your acceptance speech considering I teed you up for this.

Right this is going to take a while...

- I am aware of our trophy history since we were founded and I am disappointed we haven’t achieved more. I’m not quite sure where your going with this, because in neither of my long posts, pre and post Ajax did I mention our trophy laden past. I mentioned he should not be as revered as bill nich in another post though which is open to debate. my feelings are concerned around his 5 year tenure which I’ll get into in a bit.

-the run of top 4 finishes is indeed the most consistent, my first post after ucl final I stated that Pochettino is an excellent manager, I said our progression and his achievement over his tenure in that regard was notable. I don’t think history ever remembers the great managers of our time concerning consecutive top 4 finishes, pre or post the creation of the premier league, it’s wonderful for Enic and Levy and vital financially for our club at the moment I admit, but if in 20 years time, as fans we parade that as some sort of achievement we will be ridiculed and rightly so in my opinion.

- I accept your point regarding Wigan, Leicester and a new one ...Portsmouth as a sort of freaky moment, I agree they haven’t replicated trophy success. The problem is mate Leicester’s and Portsmouth triumphs could have been directly stopped by us! It could have been us lifting that league title and fa cup respectively.

I don’t think you are a dingdong, very accomplished person at making a point actually. It’s not very pleasant for me that you assume I’m only in love with football for lifting trophies or the endgame as it were though, I love the 90 minutes...misplaced passes, moving too late or too early, the thousands of decisions made in game determining the outcome, the sound of the ball hitting the net, the passion of the fans...it’s easy to label me as such because I no longer share such a high regard for our manager as you do.

I have asked someone before but I’ll ask you. At what point in the future is a spurs fan allowed to puff his chest out and say ‘do you know what, we should be competing and winning big trophies! Were a big club ????

Try not to think of it as a sense of entitlement, I know the line between confidence and arrogance is minuscule, I would like our fanbase to be more confident that’s all.

As for taking my views as gospel...please mate I have opened up about thoughts and fears of the club I love, for people on here to have a decent discussion with.

I keep having to make the same damn points that these views are mine and mine alone and I’m really really not trying to convert or brainwash anybody.

I feel like I’m constantly having to defend my motives for no other reason than I share a different way of thinking to the majority of people on here.

I have not tried to promote my opinion as an election campaign... I think, just an opinion, so making it out like I think my views are gospel is just going to make people, if it were possible be more inclined to want to lynch me.

Again even though I expressed those thoughts in both long posts, again in both long posts for the betterment of the club I said I hoped I was and will be wrong but no one ever acknowledges that.

- what managers could we attract and players vs the financial clout of the European elite?

I am to exhausted to say many variables, some hidden gems and or quality hitting the ceiling of our financial budgets...

Finances are of course massive mate, but didn’t someone say from Ajax ‘never seen a bag of money score a goal’

Not saying it doesn’t give a massive edge or increase probability of winning titles, but at what point do we peep out from behind the curtain and stop using it as an excuse for not winning?

I dunno mate, it’s a good basis for discussion.

Thanks for being understanding of my frustration, yes I’m desperate to win something and I wanted Poch to deliver for himself and us, utterly and truly I did and still do but I have seen too many big game failings over this 5 years, too many massive missed opportunities where I believe our players were good enough to achieve better but put in gutless, clueless performances unaided by strange Choices by Poch...son at left wing back in league cup final vs Chelsea for example.

Understand we’re not elite club get that completely.

Again maybe a little to much for you to assume you know how the world works better than me. Who knows pal?

The world seems to poop on us For the longest of times and I have felt down about it I admit.

I truly have suffered like your good self purely for the crime of loving this wonderful club.

I know your post was excellent, well thought out, and I know I’m brain mushed answering all of it.

Thanks for your post it’s a credit to you.

 

[thfcsteff]

Answers in bold within the quote...

I’m not saying Poch shouldn’t talk about our position but I do believe he has over elaborated to much this year, he has spoken too much if you like.

Spoken so much about finances and projects and working in different ways, that a part of me can’t help wondering whether he’s laying down a safety net for not winning titles, or in simple terms providing a ready made excuse.

He was expecting three players to leave/be sold last summer, and incomings off the back. He wanted to overhaul a couple of areas last summer. He felt we needed it. Those players (specifically Alderweireld, Rose and Dembele) did not leave as no-one came in for them for the money we wanted/the salary they wanted. It frustrated him. He then went into the season learning that the new stadium he had been told we would be in was clearly not going to happen for months as opposed to weeks. remember, nine players in WC SF. You believe he "over-spoke", I believe he conjured various Jedi-mind tricks to drag the club through some incredibly tough circumstances (relatively speaking) to top 4 again and miraculously, a CL Final. I think you're 100% wrong to suggest he was laying a "safety net" or a "ready made excuse."

Cynical of me I know but fans can become the embodiment of their teams managers if you like.

???

While I’m definitely not dismissing all of that, I do feel like our fans are becoming a little to obsessed with finances, and projects, and such like.

Well the facts are the facts. We were building a new stadium last season for a season longer than expected. That impacted many, many things. I presume you went to Wembley? Have you been to the new Lane? You'll thus understand the difference. "Obsessed with projects"? Five years ago we were getting thumped 4-0 by Liverpool, hapless, rudderless and under the "leadership" of Sherwood. We just played our first ever CL Final and have been top 4 for 4 seasons. It has been a "project" whether you like it or not, and is one which now has us at the dawn of the next phase. Look at Ferguson's Utd for further perspective.



I’m not sure I agree with your statement that money makes mistakes irrelevant. Do you mean managerial mistakes?

I agree with you that we cannot and haven’t been able to behave like Chelsea, in terms of all the compo, signing on fees, players fees and wages...no arguments from me with that.

I used Chelsea in the context of continuity vs chop and change. The discussions over the advantages or disadvantages of continuity vs turnover could be debated a very long time. Watford is another club minus trophies that have developed strongly with a similar manager turnover.

You've lost me. Are you praising Watford? Do you like Chelsea's methods? I am unclear what you are saying. we chopped and changed for 15 years before Poch and it got us virtually nowhere, save for the Redknapp era where he had a fleeting chance to establish us but hitched his knickers for England and signed Ryan Nelson and Saha in a transfer window having turned down Suarez prior.


If we are getting back to what me and robspur we’re talking about then are we just debating whether we are more likely to win titles with Pochettino or someone else?

On this point whether I still believe in Poch or not obviously doesn’t matter, someone already made a case towards me saying of course he deserves another year with financial backing and I agreed! He has more than earned that right.

So you believe he only "deserves" ONE YEAR with financial backing? Wow. Incredible. Opinions eh?...

Whilst we haven’t got the money of Chelsea if Poch had been doing badly in these last five years make no mistakes Daniel would have paid up the compensation though I think.


Again, I have no idea what you're saying here. Are you saying that because Levy didn't can Poch and pay his contract up, he must be doing OK? If so, strange Of course he's done fantastically well, and I personally don't need to watch what Levy does to know it.

 

[Raziel]

To start with if you do get post of the year for this, do be sure to give me an honourable mention in your acceptance speech considering I teed you up for this.

Right this is going to take a while...

- I am aware of our trophy history since we were founded and I am disappointed we haven’t achieved more. I’m not quite sure where your going with this, because in neither of my long posts, pre and post Ajax did I mention our trophy laden past. I mentioned he should not be as revered as bill nich in another post though which is open to debate. my feelings are concerned around his 5 year tenure which I’ll get into in a bit.

-the run of top 4 finishes is indeed the most consistent, my first post after ucl final I stated that Pochettino is an excellent manager, I said our progression and his achievement over his tenure in that regard was notable. I don’t think history ever remembers the great managers of our time concerning consecutive top 4 finishes, pre or post the creation of the premier league, it’s wonderful for Enic and Levy and vital financially for our club at the moment I admit, but if in 20 years time, as fans we parade that as some sort of achievement we will be ridiculed and rightly so in my opinion.

- I accept your point regarding Wigan, Leicester and a new one ...Portsmouth as a sort of freaky moment, I agree they haven’t replicated trophy success. The problem is mate Leicester’s and Portsmouth triumphs could have been directly stopped by us! It could have been us lifting that league title and fa cup respectively.

I don’t think you are a dingdong, very accomplished person at making a point actually. It’s not very pleasant for me that you assume I’m only in love with football for lifting trophies or the endgame as it were though, I love the 90 minutes...misplaced passes, moving too late or too early, the thousands of decisions made in game determining the outcome, the sound of the ball hitting the net, the passion of the fans...it’s easy to label me as such because I no longer share such a high regard for our manager as you do.

I have asked someone before but I’ll ask you. At what point in the future is a spurs fan allowed to puff his chest out and say ‘do you know what, we should be competing and winning big trophies! Were a big club ????

Try not to think of it as a sense of entitlement, I know the line between confidence and arrogance is minuscule, I would like our fanbase to be more confident that’s all.

As for taking my views as gospel...please mate I have opened up about thoughts and fears of the club I love, for people on here to have a decent discussion with.

I keep having to make the same damn points that these views are mine and mine alone and I’m really really not trying to convert or brainwash anybody.

I feel like I’m constantly having to defend my motives for no other reason than I share a different way of thinking to the majority of people on here.

I have not tried to promote my opinion as an election campaign... I think, just an opinion, so making it out like I think my views are gospel is just going to make people, if it were possible be more inclined to want to lynch me.

Again even though I expressed those thoughts in both long posts, again in both long posts for the betterment of the club I said I hoped I was and will be wrong but no one ever acknowledges that.

- what managers could we attract and players vs the financial clout of the European elite?

I am to exhausted to say many variables, some hidden gems and or quality hitting the ceiling of our financial budgets...

Finances are of course massive mate, but didn’t someone say from Ajax ‘never seen a bag of money score a goal’

Not saying it doesn’t give a massive edge or increase probability of winning titles, but at what point do we peep out from behind the curtain and stop using it as an excuse for not winning?

I dunno mate, it’s a good basis for discussion.

Thanks for being understanding of my frustration, yes I’m desperate to win something and I wanted Poch to deliver for himself and us, utterly and truly I did and still do but I have seen too many big game failings over this 5 years, too many massive missed opportunities where I believe our players were good enough to achieve better but put in gutless, clueless performances unaided by strange Choices by Poch...son at left wing back in league cup final vs Chelsea for example.

Understand we’re not elite club get that completely.

Again maybe a little to much for you to assume you know how the world works better than me. Who knows pal?

The world seems to poop on us For the longest of times and I have felt down about it I admit.

I truly have suffered like your good self purely for the crime of loving this wonderful club.

I know your post was excellent, well thought out, and I know I’m brain mushed answering all of it.

Thanks for your post it’s a credit to you.

Lots of stuff in there, and in most of your posts .. honestly mate, if I read you correctly, you have lost your faith (and all the conversations in the world may not change that, and be careful personally with that)

Let me try to add a little more detail

When I talk about trophies (or lack of) in regards to our history and/or other teams, it is to ground us on the fact that "it isn't we are doing something wrong and as soon as we correct that (or buy x player) we will suddenly revert to some winning Spurs team that bags trophies", we need to break new ground, to become a big/elite club (not just one with elite potential). Money may not score goals, but better players do, and better players cost money (bit of irony that Ajax best CL run in years ended against a similar level team with a slightly more expensive squad)

To the point of the past 5 years, could/should we have converted one of the SF/Final/PL runs into a trophy? in isolation, yes, no question. What does that come down to? manager/player inexperience, failure to invest at right moments, opposition simply better, luck, brick refs? To me .. life just is never as simple as one thing, its some combination or all of the above.

To your broader question of the future, i.e. when do we win, when do we peep out. Spur's fans need to understand a very uncomfortable fact, in my opinion (solely mine) Daniel Levy realized a long time ago that in the short term, Spurs simply cannot compete (a fact that West Ham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Southampton, Everton are still failing to grasp) for top honors. What does this mean?

- It means it was not the time to risk/spend when the gap was not close enough
- It means settling for "good enough" results as long as it kept the club progressing to the long term
- It may mean giving up short term opportunities at glory for the future of the club and the opportunity to be that elite club.

Tottenham has a plan, and the plan is most likely on track (and this is the big difference when people try to compare us to the Scum "settling for 4th", the Scum were regressing from contenders to desperation to keep a revenue stream)

- The 4 years before Levy Spurs finished between 14th - 10th
- Within 5 years, we were "best of the rest" and competing for European competition for the first time in decades
- Another 5 years had us in CL first time
- Today we are CL regulars (4 in a row) with a CL final run
- In that same time, the facilities (training & stadium), the squad, the fanbase (over 200 official global supporters clubs now), the profile and revenue of the club has increased remarkably (statistically I think only United have improved their financials at same or better rate)
- Clearly a plan with NFL, naming rights, Rugby and other non-football related events to drive even more revenue.

Will Daniel Levy spend a 100M+ and back Poch this summer to push on? I really don't know, he may still feel we have a revenue gap to continue to close.
Is Poch the man if he was to do so (guess what this thread is about)? I don't see the risk/reward payoff in changing him right now
Will Spurs be a bigger club with likely the results that come with that in 5 - 10 years? = absolutely, we are better placed than any other club in the world to improve our position.

So my suggestion to you is, understand the game is rigged (the rich stay rich, the poor get poorer) but we are very well managed and doing our best to become something more (no longer speculation, the stadium, revenue, results show that Levy got it right). Does that mean we may be frustrated a few more times, a few more years where we are almost there? where we get annoyed about the squad depth, that one more player that could have made the difference? Maybe, maybe the successful Spurs will not be the one of Kane, Eriksen, Dele but another one (just as the CL regulars wasn't Berbs, Keane, Modric, Bale)

 

[Raziel]

Raziel, if I could give you 10 likes for this post I would have. But then they would have only evened up the 10 dislikes I should have given you when you turned on our boys a few years ago when we hammered by Saudi Sportswashing Machine at the end of the season.

But seriously you are talking a lot of sense mate

Hahaha, thanks for the complement ..

Honestly don't even remember my reaction to barcodes, but hopefully as we all age, get a fraction more reflective and perhaps, just a little smarter.

Big change for me this year/season is I honestly try to avoid the negativity, if you look at my posts now, I took a few months away from the board, I also generally don't look at any Spurs board for a few days after a loss (or even a "bad" draw), just not worth it.

I choose to focus on the fun of Spurs, not the downside, because that works for me in my life. Little example, don't live in the UK so I only make a few live games a year, now I pick the "easy" games so I can watch Spurs beat someone and have a good time (my first game in new WHL was Lucas hattrick game)

 

[ricky2tricky4city]

Lots of stuff in there, and in most of your posts .. honestly mate, if I read you correctly, you have lost your faith (and all the conversations in the world may not change that, and be careful personally with that)

Let me try to add a little more detail

When I talk about trophies (or lack of) in regards to our history and/or other teams, it is to ground us on the fact that "it isn't we are doing something wrong and as soon as we correct that (or buy x player) we will suddenly revert to some winning Spurs team that bags trophies", we need to break new ground, to become a big/elite club (not just one with elite potential). Money may not score goals, but better players do, and better players cost money (bit of irony that Ajax best CL run in years ended against a similar level team with a slightly more expensive squad)

To the point of the past 5 years, could/should we have converted one of the SF/Final/PL runs into a trophy? in isolation, yes, no question. What does that come down to? manager/player inexperience, failure to invest at right moments, opposition simply better, luck, brick refs? To me .. life just is never as simple as one thing, its some combination or all of the above.

To your broader question of the future, i.e. when do we win, when do we peep out. Spur's fans need to understand a very uncomfortable fact, in my opinion (solely mine) Daniel Levy realized a long time ago that in the short term, Spurs simply cannot compete (a fact that West Ham, Saudi Sportswashing Machine, Southampton, Everton are still failing to grasp) for top honors. What does this mean?

- It means it was not the time to risk/spend when the gap was not close enough
- It means settling for "good enough" results as long as it kept the club progressing to the long term
- It may mean giving up short term opportunities at glory for the future of the club and the opportunity to be that elite club.

Tottenham has a plan, and the plan is most likely on track (and this is the big difference when people try to compare us to the Scum "settling for 4th", the Scum were regressing from contenders to desperation to keep a revenue stream)

- The 4 years before Levy Spurs finished between 14th - 10th
- Within 5 years, we were "best of the rest" and competing for European competition for the first time in decades
- Another 5 years had us in CL first time
- Today we are CL regulars (4 in a row) with a CL final run
- In that same time, the facilities (training & stadium), the squad, the fanbase (over 200 official global supporters clubs now), the profile and revenue of the club has increased remarkably (statistically I think only United have improved their financials at same or better rate)
- Clearly a plan with NFL, naming rights, Rugby and other non-football related events to drive even more revenue.

Will Daniel Levy spend a 100M+ and back Poch this summer to push on? I really don't know, he may still feel we have a revenue gap to continue to close.
Is Poch the man if he was to do so (guess what this thread is about)? I don't see the risk/reward payoff in changing him right now
Will Spurs be a bigger club with likely the results that come with that in 5 - 10 years? = absolutely, we are better placed than any other club in the world to improve our position.

So my suggestion to you is, understand the game is rigged (the rich stay rich, the poor get poorer) but we are very well managed and doing our best to become something more (no longer speculation, the stadium, revenue, results show that Levy got it right). Does that mean we may be frustrated a few more times, a few more years where we are almost there? where we get annoyed about the squad depth, that one more player that could have made the difference? Maybe, maybe the successful Spurs will not be the one of Kane, Eriksen, Dele but another one (just as the CL regulars wasn't Berbs, Keane, Modric, Bale)

You're doing your best to write well thought out reasoned essays to try and change the view of someone that has basically lost the faith.

The bottom line is @Nigeyman wants to roll the dice. No matter what you or anyone else says....Nigey wants to roll the dice.

Its akin to the supporters who have moaned about Levy being to tight in the transfer market the last 3-4 years, the thinking just dismisses so much, explanation doesn't work. Probably because it's driven by emotion, which in itself is ok, emotions are good and besides we are not all the same.

The problem is, it belies the progress of the club, and for them personally, it robs them of the enjoyment of the period we are going thru. Perhaps our problem is our advancement is too slow for modern times, no-one has a plan that takes 10 years these days?, that patience horizon is just not in the make-up of many people.

We are blessed to have two men who absolutely excel at their jobs and get along.

And what this creates, and its a rare thing at not just our club but any club, is everyone the chairman, the manager, the players and all the staff are pulling in the same direction, thats a lovely thing to be part of, and as supporters, proud of.

 

[nayenezgani]

Hahaha, thanks for the complement ..

Honestly don't even remember my reaction to barcodes, but hopefully as we all age, get a fraction more reflective and perhaps, just a little smarter.

Big change for me this year/season is I honestly try to avoid the negativity, if you look at my posts now, I took a few months away from the board, I also generally don't look at any Spurs board for a few days after a loss (or even a "bad" draw), just not worth it.

I choose to focus on the fun of Spurs, not the downside, because that works for me in my life. Little example, don't live in the UK so I only make a few live games a year, now I pick the "easy" games so I can watch Spurs beat someone and have a good time (my first game in new WHL was Lucas hattrick game)

Thank you.

 

[imcallingbullsh*t]

Football has become divided like everything else, to an extent because of the media

The worst of our group is 60, and should know better but basically all of our players are ****, levy is just tight for the sake of it, absolutely no sense of longer term planning. Anything he sees on social media or the papers is pretty much gospel. He went and sat up in the North stand as atmosphere is always next to the away fans.

The issue is its that group who in my opinion drag us down, where we should have a siege mentality, us against the world, however there is a "oh typical sexy again" type attitude. Any perspective is met with the happy clappers tag.

Maybe if we had just brought Berahino and paid the money stoke wanted we would be in a better place. Replace Berahino with Damio or the endless players we were too tight to buy and pulled out of deals for, but who are now in the chinese 4th division.