if you believe that spurs have the 4th best team then finishing 7th (which was what i was responding to) would be a failure - which essentially was my point
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Mauricio Pochettino - Sacked
- Thread starter DubaiSpur
- Start date
if you believe that spurs have the 4th best team then finishing 7th (which was what i was responding to) would be a failure - which essentially was my point
DublinSpur
Scott Parker
I don't think Spurs have "the 4th best team". I don't think of football in those terms. It seems much more fluid to me; a combination of players hitting form and maintaining form over the season, something management and coaching has a lot to do with, plus blind luck (injuries, etc) and so on. I don't think Man Utd went from 1st best team in the league to 7th best in the course of a single summer.
What I said was - and what I believe is - that Spurs have the potential to finish 4th. But a lot has to go right for us over the course of a season (and the manager plays a huge part in making sure that happens).
I happen to agree that 7th would be considered a below average season for us. I wouldn't use the word "failure" because - again - it would depend on the circumstances. If Pochettino gets us playing great football and everything's looking good, but then we lose 5 major players to long-term injury at the start of October? In some circumstances a 7th place finish might be an understandable, qualified success.
But yes, I take your point, and all things being equal I won't be happy if we finish 7th this year. But luckily I don't think we will!
That said, I was just responding to your single point that "8th with Southampton was like 6th with Spurs". And I really don't think it was.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
The thing about Southampton getting 8th is that a mid table side suits Poch's style of play.
He doesn't have to deal with teams sitting back against him.
That's the problem with the high pressing high tempo style.
How do you break down teams that don't want the ball?
How do you deal with the physical cost of playing that way for 50 games a season without burning the players out?
And how do you get a balance between players who can press hard like he needs and players that can actually play so that our football is worth watching?
Managing a top side is going to be completely different for Poch than managing Southampton. His 8th place at Southampton doesnt really mean a lot in this case. He might just be a really good mid table manager. We'll see at the end of the season.
He doesn't have to deal with teams sitting back against him.
That's the problem with the high pressing high tempo style.
How do you break down teams that don't want the ball?
How do you deal with the physical cost of playing that way for 50 games a season without burning the players out?
And how do you get a balance between players who can press hard like he needs and players that can actually play so that our football is worth watching?
Managing a top side is going to be completely different for Poch than managing Southampton. His 8th place at Southampton doesnt really mean a lot in this case. He might just be a really good mid table manager. We'll see at the end of the season.
id say the people that seem to be questioning Pochetino the most (or are the most unsure of him) are the ones who are putting too much stock on an 8th place finish. there's been a lot of stuff posted by various posters over the last few weeks/months about why they think he's a good choice and i don't think any of them have used an 8th place finish as a major reason as to why.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
1) By luring them into chasing the ball high in their own half of the field, which will hopefully leave gaps in behind for a deep-lying playmaker to put the ball into for one of our forwards to exploit. This will require patient shuttling of the ball from the half-way line to the edge of the area and then back again, going back and forth, trying to get a couple of opposition players tempted enough to leave their positions and advance to close down the ball, which will then hopefully be ruthlessly and directly played into the space left behind said defenders. AVB got part one of the strategy right: namely, the shuttling of the ball back and forth - but part two was unattainable for him for a variety of reasons.
2) The second point is sort of nullified by the first. If the opposition don't want the ball, then there's no need to close them down, is there? Especially when we have the ball ourselves. And if the opposition do want the ball, then great: lure them into our half and then spring on them like tigers, seizing the ball and sending it upfield quickly and decisively. That shouldn't take too much energy either.
3) There doesn't need to be a distinction between the two. Holtby is young, runs all day, is energetic and fearless in the tackle: a real Pochettino player. Yet he also plays some very pretty passes at times. Banega and Schneiderlin also seem to be able to combine both pressing and passing very effectively, so the players are out there. Worst comes to worst, giving one player a free role (Eriksen/Lamela) and getting others to close down in his stead while he gets in dangerous positions ready to spring an attacking pass seems like a sound strategy to me too.
DubaiSpur
Ian Walker
I don't place much stock in his finish. It's mediocre, despite braineclipse's well-argued posts indicating the contrary. What I am impressed by is the team ethic he forged at Southampton, his transformation of unnoticed players like Ward-Prowse, Chambers and Lallana into first-team stars and his canniness in pulling the whole 'interpreter' spiel with the wolfish English media for as long as he did.
Record-wise, Rafa was my overwhelming favorite. But I am completely behind Poch, and think that given time (K.E.Y!) he'll do very, very well at our club.
milo
Jack L. Jones
I agree
I think Rodgers came 11th with Swansea too
braineclipse
Steve Sedgley
Spot on.
I
indianspur
Guest
Walking over hot coals????.....my GHod that is so the 80's/90's
milo
Jack L. Jones
And **** all to do with mind over matter, it's just basic physics but I s'pose that doesn't matter if the players believe it and it works
ShelfLife
Clive Wilson
Rickie Lambert says how Pochettino made his players walk on hot coals to prove it really is "mind over matter".
Is that a bumbag poking through the midriff of his tshirt, or does he just have the world's most peculiarly shaped paunch?
Anyway, as to the man himself, I was less than enthused when his name was first linked with the job. Indeed, for a long while I refused to believe that he was a genuine contender, certain that the media and bookmakers had somehow contrived to collectively misfire on this one. However, the more I read and hear about the guy, particularly since his appointment, the more heartened I become about the thought of a Pochettino led Tottenham Hotspur. Having been a supporter of this beautifully flawed club of mine for as long as I have, I really ought to know better by now, but I can already feel the excitement building. And when this summer is behind us, and it comes time to go all over again, I just know I'm going to be fit to burst. Here's to another new dawn. Let's hope the sun actually comes up this time.
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SteveAWOL
Barry Daines
Hopefully Pochettino' methods will have as positive an effect upon our strikers as they had on Lambert.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...but-I-never-expected-a-move-to-Liverpool.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...but-I-never-expected-a-move-to-Liverpool.html
Certainly we are going to be a drilled team from what I've read and articles like the above. The same as we were under AVB and the opposite to how we were under Sherwood when we looked a bit disorganised on the pitch.
Thought we winged it a bit under Redknapp too but made up for it with the supreme quality of squad he built/inherited.
Think with Poch though, he seems better at dealing with people than AVB and while he has his teams drilled, he prefers a direct attacking approach with risk taking, rather than AVB's slow, methodical risk averse approach.
So hopefully it will work out better.
Thought we winged it a bit under Redknapp too but made up for it with the supreme quality of squad he built/inherited.
Think with Poch though, he seems better at dealing with people than AVB and while he has his teams drilled, he prefers a direct attacking approach with risk taking, rather than AVB's slow, methodical risk averse approach.
So hopefully it will work out better.
Modric THFC
Jimmy McCormick
That was supposed to be how AVB played at Porto though wasn't it?
It only became a "slow methodical risk averse approach" when every non top 6 side we played decided to sit back and defend. Its very hard to play direct when a team is sitting deep waiting for you.
Teams in Portugal must've sat back against Porto though. AVB (at Chelsea and us) didn't seem to be able to put his Porto style into operation in the Premier League. Poch, at least, seems to have been able to get Southampton playing in the style he wanted. Whether he can do that with us remains to be seen, but he has had some relative success in England so far.