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Mathys Tel

DeanoAustin said:
Agree 100% with this. He shouldn’t start but if you’re a 21 year old kid who can keep trying to do your thing when you’ve had a bit of a nightmare and 60,000 are groaning whenever you get the ball, you’re the sort of character I want in the squad.
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It’s the reason I have so much hope for him. The actual difference in quality at Premier League level is so small, what often decides the type of career a player has is attitude, determination and injuries. His attitude has been brilliant since he came in.
 
Bishop said:
Character can only get you so far, you do need the ability to go along with that character and I don't see what you guys see in this guy.
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Some players the prove it can be enough off the top of my head: Michael Dawson, Steffen Freund, Erik Lamela, Teemu Tainio, Steed Malbranque etc.
 
Bishop said:
Character can only get you so far, you do need the ability to go along with that character and I don't see what you guys see in this guy.
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I know you have very high standards (which I usually agree with) and so I'm not going to persuade you otherwise. But I think he is generally good at cutting inside and getting a strong shot away, also very good at crossing a ball - as soon as he arrived and came off the bench he was taking corners which was telling. Of course there are things he has to improve on, but time is on his side.

He did one good cut inside and shot from the left yesterday and one good skill to beat one or two men when out on the right and put in a ball - there's no denying he had a poor game overall yesterday but he wasn't alone. And when someone shows the attitude he does I'm happy to give him time at his age. There's no doubt he should be a squad player rather than a starter at this stage though, and with our recent signings that is where he will be for now once everything is settled down....
 
revlis said:
Some players the prove it can be enough off the top of my head: Michael Dawson, Steffen Freund, Erik Lamela, Teemu Tainio, Steed Malbranque etc.
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Interesting because I slightly disagree with your descriptions. Malbranque had quality as I was concerned as did Taino (just an incredibly injury prone player). I wasnt a fan of Dawson or Lamela and felt we needed better at the time. Freund is probably the only one I think that lack ability but character might have compensated but then the position he played allowed for that.

Forwards are judged much more tightly and closely on their ability and effectiveness and it's much more obvious when that is lacking. A busy CM can mask their defiences much more with a whole lot of rubbing around.
 
Bishop said:
Interesting because I slightly disagree with your descriptions. Malbranque had quality as I was concerned as did Taino (just an incredibly injury prone player). I wasnt a fan of Dawson or Lamela and felt we needed better at the time. Freund is probably the only one I think that lack ability but character might have compensated but then the position he played allowed for that.

Forwards are judged much more tightly and closely on their ability and effectiveness and it's much more obvious when that is lacking. A busy CM can mask their defiences much more with a whole lot of rubbing around.
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Character won’t be enough for Tel. He needs to produce on the pitch in terms of goals and assists.

I honestly don’t think he’s a million miles from producing that though. The final bit is missing for the most part but you can see he tries things when he gets the ball. He’s tricky and he’s got very quick feet and body movement. Defenders are wary of him. If he can add that final bit, he’ll be a player. If he can’t, his attitude won’t make up for it.

At 21, I think it’s worth us waiting to see if he can add consistent end product.
 
One good thing about adding Mudyrk is at the very least he adds competition. The fight for your place is where you learn to sink or swim. Hopefully they push each other's level up, or next summer we will likely replace both (as we should if they aren't cutting it).

Two quite different profiles as well so it will be interesting to see how they work, when we use them and in what manner.
 
I think he would do well at Fulham, palace or West Ham.

Hate to say this but the crowd are already on his case which is not fair but he just doesn’t seem to have that X factor for everything he tries.

Already seen more encouragement and ability from LWB … who would get an easier ride due to being an academy product.
 
revlis said:
It’s the reason I have so much hope for him. The actual difference in quality at Premier League level is so small, what often decides the type of career a player has is attitude, determination and injuries. His attitude has been brilliant since he came in.
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People don't want to see a project player develop in front of the them, there is zero tolerance to it here IMO, the bar that is set is Bale and Kane on what people want to see.

Ironically we have Savio who we are convinced has it, but hasn't shown it whilst City fans have treated him in the same way we treat Tel, so its interesting how thought process changes, I think personally with bias and pre conceptions that people won't drop (including myself 100%)

But ultimately we are doing to Tel what City did to Savio but I suspect people look at the fee and it eases their feelings because some will always judge signings on what we spend and not look at the player themselves IMO
 
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DeanoAustin said:
Character won’t be enough for Tel. He needs to produce on the pitch in terms of goals and assists.

I honestly don’t think he’s a million miles from producing that though. The final bit is missing for the most part but you can see he tries things when he gets the ball. He’s tricky and he’s got very quick feet and body movement. Defenders are wary of him. If he can add that final bit, he’ll be a player. If he can’t, his attitude won’t make up for it.

At 21, I think it’s worth us waiting to see if he can add consistent end product.
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Agreed.

When people say they ‘don’t see it’ with Tel it really surprises me. He has pace, he can beat a man with skill, he can put in a great cross and has a mean shot. He is also clearly determined and has a smart head on his shoulders.

I think he just needs a run to put it all together. It’s confidence and opportunity. And right now clearly the squad is settling in together and learning how to perform De Zerbi’s system which typically takes a few games to click. I think in 2 months time we’ll all be having a very different conversation.
 
Bishop said:
Interesting because I slightly disagree with your descriptions. Malbranque had quality as I was concerned as did Taino (just an incredibly injury prone player). I wasnt a fan of Dawson or Lamela and felt we needed better at the time. Freund is probably the only one I think that lack ability but character might have compensated but then the position he played allowed for that.

Forwards are judged much more tightly and closely on their ability and effectiveness and it's much more obvious when that is lacking. A busy CM can mask their defiences much more with a whole lot of rubbing around.
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Dawson's greatest quality was being available for team selection. He was the bridesmaid to King, Naybet, Woodgate, Gallas and I even preferred Kaboul to him. That lot were all better than Daws (but a bunch of crocks) whereas Daws was fit and available for selection. Dawson was certainly 20% better when he had King's communication and football brain next to him. He would have been better with a great talker like Hugo behind him as well.

I guess not too dissimilar to Davies who always played better with Vertonghen on his inside. He looked loads better with SuperJan talking him through the game. Ironically, it is now Davies that is the great talker when he's on the pitch.

I think it is these partnerships and understandings that now become really important under RDZ. We've seen way too much chopping and changing and little time for partnerships to develop in the last few years.
 
Gazza said:
I think he would do well at Fulham, palace or West Ham.

Hate to say this but the crowd are already on his case which is not fair but he just doesn’t seem to have that X factor for everything he tries.

Already seen more encouragement and ability from LWB … who would get an easier ride due to being an academy product.
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Yep ...I got more than a sense Saturday that he's right in the firing line for the boo boys.

BUT surprised, when he missed that free kick immediately before being substituted, the crowd gave him a smattering of applause as he slowly walked around the south stand. (I so feared for him when he had to walk off the far side when substituted)
 
SissokoWasGood (BoL) said:
Agreed.

When people say they ‘don’t see it’ with Tel it really surprises me. He has pace, he can beat a man with skill, he can put in a great cross and has a mean shot. He is also clearly determined and has a smart head on his shoulders.

I think he just needs a run to put it all together. It’s confidence and opportunity. And right now clearly the squad is settling in together and learning how to perform De Zerbi’s system which typically takes a few games to click. I think in 2 months time we’ll all be having a very different conversation.
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Whereas I think he doesn’t have pace, doesn’t have enough natural skill to make up for it, and is inconsistent with his crossing and shooting. I think he could improve the latter, but I don’t think he’ll ever be good enough at beating defenders with pace and/or skill.

Edit: love his attitude though so very much hope he proves me wrong! And hated all the fans immediately on his back on Saturday.
 
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MartyFunkhouser said:
People don't want to see a project player develop in front of the them, there is zero tolerance to it here IMO, the bar that is set is Bale and Kane on what people want to see.

Ironically we have Savio who we are convinced has it, but hasn't shown it whilst City fans have treated him in the same way we treat Tel, so its interesting how thought process changes, I think personally with bias and pre conceptions that people won't drop (including myself 100%)

But ultimately we are doing to Tel what City did to Savio but I suspect people look at the fee and it eases their feelings because some will always judge signings on what we spend and not look at the player themselves IMO
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The difference with Savio is that those who are proclaiming his potential and quality have actually watched him play and perform to a high level previously. So it's not quite the same scenario as it is with Tel. Then add that a player not good enough for City might still good be enough for many or even most teams. A player not good enough for 17th placed Spurs doesn't quite have the same space below.

I don't really buy your argument about not wanting to see a player develop. I am for example quite hopeful for Odobert because in him I see quite some potential, not to be generational or anything but just a good level attacker and hopefully one that is good enough to offer us something. I just don't see that with Tel. I may well be wrong (hopefully), but I'm not gonna lie about how I perceive him currently.
 
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