Mathys Tel

[SpurMeUp]

And that's what he has to continue doing, a few months doesn't change the underlying reasons for Frank's decision. I don't think he should currently be a regular starter. That we are so poor attacking wise under TF has probably made any player who manages to have a good game look like the answer to our prayers. But honestly in terms of current squad quality, Solanke, should be starting over him when fit. As I said before, it's decent prospect Vs proven PL player. It's probably academic anyway as we are likely to lose whoever is playing.

It’s so obvious, isn’t it. We have some negative fans who seem more interested in undermining than supporting. When you look at the bias some have carried for a while, it’s no wonder TF’s position has been eroded. If you look at the posters here, it’s (purely coincidentally apparently!) the same anti voices that correlate perfectly with those who wanted Ange to stay. What are the chances eh?

Injuries have been the biggest issue for Frank, but it certainly doesn’t help to have such a divisive fanbase actively working against him, hunting for faults in logical decisions. Solanke is more senior and more experienced, while Tel hasn’t put the ball in the back of the net when presented with chances. That said, Tel has come on under Frank, and for me at least, he’s looked a lot better under Frank than he did last year.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Of course Solanke is a key player. But it's about this very specific moment in time:

- Solanke is not match fit
- The squad is already extremely thin, we're now carrying one more potential injury risk
- Tel was left out of the squad originally, added for one game that he ended up being on the bench for anyway. What the fudge was the point?
- He was taken off the other day for some reason and showed his disappointment
- The game is not must win and we are likely to lose anyway

I don't know why you intimating that I'm making it a national scandal. Simply passing my opinion on what I think is a bad decision. Solanke might end up scoring a couple of goals in the game that ends up saving Frank's job, and I will most happily eat my words.

Solanke is still key in this context because even at 45 mins he is our best striker on anything seen so far in anyone else. Muani despite his level has shown zero in front of goal despite one game and we can blame Frank for that, course we can, but Franks still the manager so we have to judge everything on what might work for Frank and all points towards that being Solanke, we might not like it but I can see 100% why thats the case.

As for the bold mate, I again, maybe not articulating myself, but that was not aimed at you, I am talking about the wider uproar that the decision has seemed to have caused which is akin to a national scandal.

Tel is a good promising talent, people, not you, people are acting like Frank has shot Bambi

 

[Robspur12]

I agree, he will get over it because the one more likely to leave this transfer window is the manager.

Well I have to say although you might be right, the way it looks you could just as well be wrong re Frank. Also no guarantee that a new manager will instantly make Tel a starter.

 

[billyiddo]

I think "Great" is a stretch and before people jump on me here, I am not using any of this as a defence of Frank, but Tel wasn't any cop under Ange and I was shocked we triggered the deal as I said at the time. That aside, this move is no more than a coin flip IMO, hardly anything in it at all

I think it's telling that he's a France u21 player and not a full squad member - at his age (turning 21 in a couple of months) if he was a top talent/prospect he'd be in the full squad - he's not a Desire Doue level prospect, we're talking Harvey Elliot levels. People want to make him a martyr for the agenda but he's just another player we've had our pants pulled down on.

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

but he's just another player we've had our pants pulled down on.

Yeh and not wanting to be cruel here, but in a different timeline its either him or Odobert that would not even be here given our time again, had we had a choice.

 

[glasgowspur]

I presume TF knows how Solanke is doing. I am not saying this to have a pop btw but this is the difference between being a manager and a fan. They have the data and experience.

Most definitely not having a pop, and not even limiting to this one instance, but I see this all the time, so so has all the data, doesn't mean they will make the call.

 

[Robspur12]

Most definitely not having a pop, and not even limiting to this one instance, but I see this all the time, so so has all the data, doesn't mean they will make the call.

Agreed but at least they are more informed than us. How they use that information is another thing entirely. Generally TF has been quite cautious on injuries.

 

[harr1984]

Yeh and not wanting to be cruel here, but in a different timeline its either him or Odobert that would not even be here given our time again, had we had a choice.

Nothing wrong with that opinion, but I don't agree we've had our pants pulled down with Tel. We paid for potential, young players develop at different rates - for me his attitude is very telling, and I like his physicality and directness amongst other things. If I was a betting man, in 2 years time when he is still very young at 22 - I would bet he is worth more more than the £30m we paid for him.....

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

Nothing wrong with that opinion, but I don't agree we've had our pants pulled down with Tel. We paid for potential, young players develop at different rates - for me his attitude is very telling, and I like his physicality and directness amongst other things. If I was a betting man, in 2 years time when he is still very young at 22 - I would bet he is worth more more than the £30m we paid for him.....

That was someone elses words not mine, my point is and has always been we should have decided on one and not the other. Given the timelines didn't work that way and I understand that, there was nothing in Tel last season that made me think we should trigger the deal, I also don't think I have seen much this to warrant him keeping Solanke out of a squad personally. But we all like what we like I suppose

 

[harr1984]

That was someone elses words not mine, my point is and has always been we should have decided on one and not the other. Given the timelines didn't work that way and I understand that, there was nothing in Tel last season that made me think we should trigger the deal, I also don't think I have seen much this to warrant him keeping Solanke out of a squad personally. But we all like what we like I suppose

You pulled that part of his quote and replied 'Yeh' so assumed you agreed with it, apologies if not the case.

As for Solanke I haven't seen one person suggest a fit Solanke should not have got the slot, just unsure that it was worth all this fanfare for this particular game when Solanke has shown nothing since his injury return and is clearly nowhere near fully fit vs a player who has been gaining confidence and game time and predictably was going to be upset as a result of being left out yet again. It's just a topic for discussion like any manager's decision, some will agree and some question it - I haven't seen a big over reaction to it to be honest.....

 

[Robspur12]

I haven't seen a big over reaction to it to be honest.....

The pile in has been pretty big tbf. Won't go through individual posts but very little understanding of the situation. I get people thinking he should be gone but I think this is a pretty routine decision. He must think Solanke is ready and let's be fair he has been easing him in up to this point. The CL is probably a free hit as he needs to focus on improving our league results. Hence a good time to bring back a player to gain match fitness.

 

[harr1984]

The pile in has been pretty big tbf. Won't go through individual posts but very little understanding of the situation. I get people thinking he should be gone but I think this is a pretty routine decision. He must think Solanke is ready and let's be fair he has been easing him in up to this point. The CL is probably a free hit as he needs to focus on improving our league results. Hence a good time to bring back a player to gain match fitness.

Fair enough if I've missed some posts, must admit seemed pretty 50/50 in terms of whether people agreed with it or not and didn't see anything personal towards Frank. You're right it is a free hit, I'm not sure I would have used such a game to upset Tel and his confidence but as a manager you live and die by your decisions. Here's hoping he gets further up to speed and come the weekend him and Tel are linking up nicely .....

 

[Bishop]

I agree, he will get over it because the one more likely to leave this transfer window is the manager.

I'd hope whomever the next manager is, that they would want better than Tel as a starting LWF tbh.

 

[braineclipse]

Exactly. It’s like some fuking grannies knitting club: oohhhhhhh he left out Tel, what a naughty man!

Frank has to pick the side to win the game. Solanke an out an out striker and we need goals. Had Tel converted against Wham, maybe it’d be a different story.

Agreed that "Frank has to pick a side to win the game", but probably in a different way to what at you mean by that. It's what Frank did with Kudus, who then got injured. It's what he did with Bentancur who then got injured. It's what he's done with Porro who then rather predictably didn't get injured, but saw a clear drop in form.

He's under pressure and "has to pick a team to win the game". To me that's not always what the club needs. (obviously not saying we don't need to win games)

 

[MartyFunkhouser]

He's under pressure and "has to pick a team to win the game". To me that's not always what the club needs. (obviously not saying we don't need to win games)

ANd for better or worse or what anyone thinks of any manager, no manager makes a choice out of spite or an agenda (which I have read elsewhere) and he is clearly wanting to do whats right to win a game, he can be wrong and it could go wrong, but its not a choice out of any ill intention which some have alluded to out in Spurs Social Media land

 

[WillWeEverBeGoodAgain]

I love Matthys Tel btw. I was glad when we signed him permanently but it wasn't a universal feeling on this board. I actually think he's got a great attitude. He's starting to come good too which is wonderful. But we shouldn't put too much pressure on his shoulders. That's where good squad management comes in.

You can see he really cares too, two or three times he has gone into an unhappy crowd to talk to the fans
He gets it, I'm like you I think there is a player in there

 

[glasgowspur]

The pile in has been pretty big tbf. Won't go through individual posts but very little understanding of the situation. I get people thinking he should be gone but I think this is a pretty routine decision. He must think Solanke is ready and let's be fair he has been easing him in up to this point. The CL is probably a free hit as he needs to focus on improving our league results. Hence a good time to bring back a player to gain match fitness.

If it was an isolated case then fair enough, but I can't believe that it is, form players dropped, players badly in need of a rest continually played despite cover being available, no one appears happy with the tactics.
I accept I could be wrong, but this does not look like a happy squad, if there was signs of progress, a glimmer of improvement or a even the merest hint that this is moving forward then I'd back the manager.
No wins this year, 4 PL wins since we beat WHU in September, West ham have three wins since then.
For me it's just one thing too many, another sign he is not working.

 

[Robspur12]

Agreed that "Frank has to pick a side to win the game", but probably in a different way to what at you mean by that. It's what Frank did with Kudus, who then got injured. It's what he did with Bentancur who then got injured. It's what he's done with Porro who then rather predictably didn't get injured, but saw a clear drop in form.

He's under pressure and "has to pick a team to win the game". To me that's not always what the club needs. (obviously not saying we don't need to win games)

He has to balance putting out his best team against the risk of injuries, ever manager wants their best players out there. I think he has generally rotated very well. Those injuries you mentioned came during the very busy Christmas schedule and like people who defended Ange would say, TF has been a little unlucky. He doesn't strike me though as someone who rushes people back.

With Solanke it's clear he has been easing him in. But at some point he needs to make a call that he can start. He is a key player.

 

[Robspur12]

If it was an isolated case then fair enough, but I can't believe that it is, form players dropped, players badly in need of a rest continually played despite cover being available, no one appears happy with the tactics.
I accept I could be wrong, but this does not look like a happy squad, if there was signs of progress, a glimmer of improvement or a even the merest hint that this is moving forward then I'd back the manager.
No wins this year, 4 PL wins since we beat WHU in September, West ham have three wins since then.
For me it's just one thing too many, another sign he is not working.

I don't disagree that it's not working. But that in itself doesn't make every decision wrong.

 

[harr1984]

I don't disagree that it's not working. But that in itself doesn't make every decision wrong.

I think it's one of those damned either way situations as you can see plenty arguing both sides meaning plenty would have disagreed either way.

Unfortunately that's the life of a football manager and often fine lines. Personally I would have kept Tel in, but Frank knows more about managing players and what's required than I ever will and I don't think it's worth getting annoyed with.

Solanke could have a blinder, pick up valuable minutes and all looks rosy. Or he could have stayed with Tel, Tel have a stinker and then people whinge Solanke wasn't picked I just hope everyone at the ground gets behind Frank and drowns out the idiots who want to hound him out, and if this is Franks final game the team and support do him some justice because he's a really good guy who has undoubtedly tried really hard here....