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Let's talk about our history of having 'weak mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Golfball said:
Look this isn't hard to understand... Redknapp does not negotiate contracts. Because HR was a good manager our performances were better because our players were playing better... and what happens when your players play like superstars... they get paid like them.

Look at who our biggest earners are. Modric, Bale, king, Adebayor etc - I imagine Lennon/hudd and a few others had decent pay rises. They had pay rises when renewing the contract, they proved they are worth it and this is down to Levy. Why do I even need to say this? Your not stupid and can realise it yourself.

Nelson and Saha were much stop gaps as a last resort. Gallas and Friedel are the only really old players he brought into the club and they are in AVBs first team. Plus I doubt their wage is above their ability. Surely if on a budget it's better to have an old free player on a big wage than it is to have a 20 million player on a big wage doing the same job. It's not like our first team was built up of those players. Having a policy of getting one or two free players every few years is better than spending for every position. It means a better player can be signed... i.e get a Gallas type every 2 years and sign a big long term player like Vert, rather than 2 lesser players.

The best option obviously is to get a great youth system in place, HR did his bit for developing youth but I don't think AvB is interested in youth as much as HR, let alone going to improve it. First window saw very little cheap foreign talent join. AVB had a good few months off last season, I would have thought he could at least find 1 cheap first teamer.
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I actually don't think Andre is that bothered about scouting and transfers. I think he is a coach.

I think he really wants a DoF he trusts to come in and do that for him (like has happened at all his previous clubs). But I suspect that Sherwood (who has Levy's ear) is fighting it, because it means he will be out of a job.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I actually don't think Andre is that bothered about scouting and transfers. I think he is a coach.

I think he really wants a DoF he trusts to come in and do that for him (like has happened at all his previous clubs). But I suspect that Sherwood (who has Levy's ear) is fighting it, because it means he will be out of a job.
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You do realise that AVB was a scout at Chelsea? And he is a football nut! I would be amazed if AVB wasn't passionate about finding players even now.
 
Gutter Boy said:
Because we've only won one credible trophy since Burkinshaw ('91, whereas he won 3 himself '81, '82, '84).

We're obviously going to be short of funds for the next 4-5 years whilst the stadium is being built. I think Levy's deliberately picked himself a manager who will work smarter and can be sustainable (as opposed to resource-draining Redknapp). AVB is intended to be our Wenger.

IMO we're going to be majorly restructured and maybe take a short term hit to enable long term growth.
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AVB won't be our Manager for the start of the 2014/15 season. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if he is gone before Xmas 2013. Levy doesn't do patience and if we miss out on top four this season and don't look like we're challenging for it next year either then the Manager will be gone.
 
AVB won't be our Manager for the start of the 2014/15 season. Hmmn we have a Nostradamus in our midst! Or maybe a Cassandra.....
 
Push and Run said:
You do realise that AVB was a scout at Chelsea? And he is a football nut! I would be amazed if AVB wasn't passionate about finding players even now.
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If by scout you mean he provided a tactical overview of their next opposition, then yes. he was a scout.


Spotting weaknesses is much easier then spotting players to fill those weaknesses.
 
I actually thought we'd sorted our mentality out a couple of seasons ago in 10/11. We started to score a lot of late goals that season and even won at Villa with 10 men for about 60 minutes.

Missing out on the CL that season was a massive blow that stunted our growth to a certain extent. I know last season was a colossal blow to us because of the manner in which we fell apart and missed out on the CL, but can you imagine would it would have done for us as a club if we had managed to hold off Emirates Marketing Project again and qualify for the CL two seasons running! We would have been able to attract better players for a start!

So this question is for the older fans as I am only 28, when did our mentality change? Because even though it's been yonks since we won the league, we still used to win trophies regularly, every 7 or 8 years or so. I think it's only us and United who are the only clubs to have won a trophy in each of the last 5 decades (is it 5 or 6 decades?), that in itself is some achievement when you consider Saudi Sportswashing Machine haven't won a trophy for ages and Emirates Marketing Project went 3 decades without one. Everton and Villa haven't managed in it 15 years either.
 
awesome dawson said:
our useless medical team, coaching staff, scouting network, brick beer on tap, public transport links, grey kit, transfer window tactic madness (i.e. leaving it all until the last minute) - that's just for starters.
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I thought the new training ground and AVB's new training methods might change things. But no, things are still the same!
 
Re: Let's talk about our history of having 'waek mentalities' and 'bottling it'

Spur of the moment said:
Historically we have always gone out to play attractive football, to attack and entertain. Less emphasis on defence than most (if not all!). Majority of clubs play to more rigid systems - everyone behind the ball, that kind of stuff.

Maybe also it's the type of player we always go for, ones who know they can turn it on but cannot always be arsed when the chips are down. We are therefore that much easier to pick off.

Huge generalisations of course, but maybe some strands of truth in there?
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Think this is the best and most accurate post. A lot of Spurs fans don't like players who do the ugly things required to win like Scott Parker. Yes he has his limitations, but some posters refuse to give him credit ever, even when he was MOM in most of the games in the first half of last season. We wonder why we have been on the receiving end of so many batterings by the top clubs when we have players like Berbatov and Ginola whose workrate, especially in away games leaves a lot to be desired. On their day they were both brilliant for Spurs, but you've gotta accept that in some games they will give you literally nothing!

Some people even find fault with Carlos Tevez for being a "headless chicken". I'd love to have a player that works his gonads off every game, although not Tevez himself cos he's a ****.

We always try and go for defenders that are great footballers rather than great defenders.

The only way our mentality will change is by winning. You see now that Emirates Marketing Project are starting to get the winning mentality as a result of winning trophies. You don't get the mentality first unfortunately. Don't ask me how we become winners without a sugar daddy because I have no idea.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I actually thought we'd sorted our mentality out a couple of seasons ago in 10/11. We started to score a lot of late goals that season and even won at Villa with 10 men for about 60 minutes.

Missing out on the CL that season was a massive blow that stunted our growth to a certain extent. I know last season was a colossal blow to us because of the manner in which we fell apart and missed out on the CL, but can you imagine would it would have done for us as a club if we had managed to hold off Emirates Marketing Project again and qualify for the CL two seasons running! We would have been able to attract better players for a start!

So this question is for the older fans as I am only 28, when did our mentality change? Because even though it's been yonks since we won the league, we still used to win trophies regularly, every 7 or 8 years or so. I think it's only us and United who are the only clubs to have won a trophy in each of the last 5 decades (is it 5 or 6 decades?), that in itself is some achievement when you consider Saudi Sportswashing Machine haven't won a trophy for ages and Emirates Marketing Project went 3 decades without one. Everton and Villa haven't managed in it 15 years either.
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We've been trying to replace Gazza for the last twenty years we should've been unearthing new Mabbutts/Linekers.
 
lurker of old said:
AVB won't be our Manager for the start of the 2014/15 season. Hmmn we have a Nostradamus in our midst! Or maybe a Cassandra.....
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As I said, Levy isn't a patient man.

Jol gets two 5th places but it's not enough and we actively seek to replace him in the Summer.
Ramos replaces him and wins a trophy but it's not enough to give him some grace to turn around an awful start to the season.
Redknapp gets top four twice in three campaigns but failure to qualify for the Champion's League means his head rolls.

It is my believe AVB has this season or next season to deliver Champion's League football or he'll go the same way as the others.
 
Jurgen the German said:
I thought the new training ground and AVB's new training methods might change things. But no, things are still the same!
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Kaboul and Parker's injuries are from fatigue/lot of football the previous two seasons with little rest. In Parker's case it was inevitable he would get crocked sooner than later, he quite simply didn't rest enough in the last half of last season, he got more tired, he got worn down and he was also getting into the England set-up as regular which gave him more games to deal with. Dembele? That's a tough one to know what's going on, but its worrying...Benny? yes, there's been a decision made on how to deal with it...let's hope it's the right one.
 
Push and Run said:
You do realise that AVB was a scout at Chelsea? And he is a football nut! I would be amazed if AVB wasn't passionate about finding players even now.
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No. He was head of opposition scouting. The same role that Daniel Sousa does for us now.

That's sussing out our upcoming opponents, not talent spotting.
 
Gutter Boy said:
I actually don't think Andre is that bothered about scouting and transfers. I think he is a coach.

I think he really wants a DoF he trusts to come in and do that for him (like has happened at all his previous clubs). But I suspect that Sherwood (who has Levy's ear) is fighting it, because it means he will be out of a job.
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The guy used to be addicted to the Football Manager series. There's no way he doesn't have a massive hard on for buying players.
 
its to do with the fans

the kind of players we buy

the manager / coaches

atmoshpere and culture

its not just one thing ..or even two. its a whole heap of factors.


strong mentalities in our team DONT include...bale, lennon, siggy, thudd, walker for instance...at least IMO....but they do include the likes of gallas, sandro, adebayor, BAE, dembele...players that dont drop their level because of the opposition. the rest of the team feeds off of that

there is a correlation also to the people that are missing and are particularly off form and the way we capitulate in games.

when we had carrick, davids, teemu, mido , keane, naybet etc...that was a mentally strong unit right there

and i dont get a strong mental edge from AVB. its not weak either...but it isnt exactly something that comes across as granite

all IMHO.

and the fans appear to be weak minded also. this is natural as success has softened us a bit
 
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africanspurs said:
its to do with the fans

the kind of players we buy

the manager / coaches

atmoshpere and culture

its not just one thing ..or even two. its a whole heap of factors.


strong mentalities in our team DONT include...bale, lennon, siggy, thudd, walker for instance...at least IMO....but they do include the likes of gallas, sandro, adebayor, BAE...players that dont drop their level because of the opposition

when we had carrick, davids, teemu, mido , keane, naybet etc...that was a mentally strong unit right there

and i dont get a strong mental edge from AVB. its not weak either...but it isnt exactly something that comes across as granite

all IMHO.

and the fans appear to be weak minded also. this is natural as success has softened us a bit
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I would have thought success would go some way to make us mentally stronger no?
 
diego_maradona said:
I would have thought success would go some way to make us mentally stronger no?
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in all honesty i dont think so. success makes us expect it void of any hiccups. when things go wrong we turn on our team far easier than when we were supporting them through relegation scraps and mid level battles. boos came for a hell of a lot worse than they do now. they come far too easy.

success has brought out more fans of a certain material that werent present during the less successful days...those fans that had pride and loved and appreciated everything tottenham inspite of where they were i think are overshadowed by a different breed....and even the mental perception of those that were there before success might have been altered slightly due to starvation of success.

why are we greedy? to be the best thats why. but is coming short of the best a crime that should turn away our support from the 100% we would normally give?
 
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I think Arsenal have overtaken us when it comes to bottling matches in recent years. Remember their match against Saudi Sportswashing Machine in 2011 ? Arsenal led 4-0 within the first 25 mins, then had a player send of in the 2nd half, conceded 4 goals in the last 20 mins and were lucky to escape with the draw ! Arsenal must be the only "big" team in the history of EPL not to win a match despite leading 4-0 ! Not even Spurs can manage that !:ross:
 
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