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Jose Mourinho - SACKED

Just watched the press conference where some of the quotes came out of. He actually came across quite well and the quotes aren't quite as harsh as they are in print (which is often the case). It's clear how disappointed he is and it's also very clear what he expects from people.


I did have to laugh at the journo at around 7:20. Jose wasn't being unpleasant but he's absolutely made the journo look like a clueless idiot. Or rather, the journo's questions made him look stupid, Jose just wasn't humouring him with some load of bland waffle.
 
Bishop said:
We all know Jose likes to create a siege meteorology with emotionally independent players. The biggest difference between himself and Poch is that Poch wanted to foster a cohesive environment where each player felt a part of the family and encouraged each others development as part of a greater project. The family aspect of the group was clear with Poch playing the father role, hence his emotional proximity to many of the players.

Jose conversely wants an internal siege meteorology in each player where they call each other out for their mistakes or failings, to the extent that each player feels so personally responsible to the rest of the group to not let their standards drop.

Both approaches have their merits and suit certain personality traits more than others. I would argue that those who already posses a highly competitive spirit are more likely to be wellthose who succeed and will respond better to Mourinho's methods.
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Great post.
 
Mourinho clearly got the team in at HT, freaked out said move the ball quicker, changed a tonne of players and packed them back out.

In hindsight, it wasn’t what was needed. He failed to upgrade the team. Probably undermined it. And what we needed was to recognise a few players weren’t match sharp or confident - get into them and hatch a plan to break them down. Plus he left on winks and Davies who seemed the most vulnerable. Changing them for Toby and Hojberg and I think we’d have come through.

Better to make mistakes now at this stage.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
 
SpurMeUp said:
Mourinho clearly got the team in at HT, freaked out said move the ball quicker, changed a tonne of players and packed them back out.

In hindsight, it wasn’t what was needed. He failed to upgrade the team. Probably undermined it. And what we needed was to recognise a few players weren’t match sharp or confident - get into them and hatch a plan to break them down. Plus he left on winks and Davies who seemed the most vulnerable. Changing them for Toby and Hojberg and I think we’d have come through.

Better to make mistakes now at this stage.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
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I think the reason he left on Winks was that he knew GLC and Bale weren't going to play 90 mins, and Bergwijn and Dele were having shockers. That's 4 subs used up there and then.

He evidently also wanted to get Hojbjerg on in order to get some winning ment@lity and leadership into the midfield. If PEH came on for Winks then he needs to bring someone else on later for GLC
 
JerusalemMan said:
Watching the press conference really does add nuance to the bare quoted words that previously came out. They do not seem as stark.
I noticed that he deliberately passed up the opportunity given by the stirrer Jiggins from the Sun to throw Dele under the bus.
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Yeah that's a very good summary and good points. To be fair, you can see how a Kane or Lloris, who strike me as really good pros, would love working under Jose. There is no flimflam, no mixed messaging, no tolerance for sub par performances. The expectation from him is very, very clear. I would imagine there are a lot of managers you don't really get that from.

I noticed on Facebook that Football London wanted people to sum up Alli's performance in 3 words. It f**king drives me mad. All they are trying to do is build the Alli narrative because they know most people will have a pop. Why pick on Alli? He was one of 15 or 16 poor players last night. Absolute gutter journalism. They should be ashamed of themselves.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Yeah that's a very good summary and good points. To be fair, you can see how a Kane or Lloris, who strike me as really good pros, would love working under Jose. There is no flimflam, no mixed messaging, no tolerance for sub par performances. The expectation from him is very, very clear. I would imagine there are a lot of managers you don't really get that from.

I noticed on Facebook that Football London wanted people to sum up Alli's performance in 3 words. It f**king drives me mad. All they are trying to do is build the Alli narrative because they know most people will have a pop. Why pick on Alli? He was one of 15 or 16 poor players last night. Absolute gutter journalism. They should be ashamed of themselves.
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Ali wasn't even the worst player but it just helps build a particular narrative.
 
Bishop said:
We all know Jose likes to create a siege meteorology with emotionally independent players. The biggest difference between himself and Poch is that Poch wanted to foster a cohesive environment where each player felt a part of the family and encouraged each others development as part of a greater project. The family aspect of the group was clear with Poch playing the father role, hence his emotional proximity to many of the players.

Jose conversely wants an internal siege meteorology in each player where they call each other out for their mistakes or failings, to the extent that each player feels so personally responsible to the rest of the group to not let their standards drop.

Both approaches have their merits and suit certain personality traits more than others. I would argue that those who already posses a highly competitive spirit are more likely to be wellthose who succeed and will respond better to Mourinho's methods.
Click to expand...
I agree with quite a lot of that. I don't think you mean it as an either or kind of situation, but just to add a few points.

There have definitely been players that have felt part of "the family" before with Mourinho. Materazzi described him as "a shield, a friend, a father, a brother". Other than the obvious family points Mourinho will repeatedly shield his players. I think many appreciate that. But there are those things that I think Mourinho finds unacceptable, if that happens he's more likely to let the world know. Though he's pretty much just letting the world know what it already knows, that wasn't good enough.

There were quite a few players under Pochettino that were fairly quickly discarded. More early on, when we had more problems, but it definitely happened. One can only speculate, but what would have happened had it been Pochettino that walked in for the first time in the situation we were in a year ago? I think there would be quite a few that wouldn't have felt as part of a cohesive family by now.

The biggest difference to me is the willingness to criticise publicly. It's controversial, but it can work.

Two of the players that have been criticised publicly are Ndombele and Aurier. Though Aurier was delayed and through the documentary iirc. They have also been two of our most improved players under Mourinho. Ndombele is now imo an obvious starter, and Aurier is at least holding his own in competition with Doherty (a highly rated, PL experienced player). At the time when they were struggling I'm not sure highly competitive spirit would be the description people would use for either of them. The players need to show a highly competitive spirit, but they get the chance to show that if it isn't already obviously there.
 
DeanoAustin said:
Yeah that's a very good summary and good points. To be fair, you can see how a Kane or Lloris, who strike me as really good pros, would love working under Jose. There is no flimflam, no mixed messaging, no tolerance for sub par performances. The expectation from him is very, very clear. I would imagine there are a lot of managers you don't really get that from.

I noticed on Facebook that Football London wanted people to sum up Alli's performance in 3 words. It f**king drives me mad. All they are trying to do is build the Alli narrative because they know most people will have a pop. Why pick on Alli? He was one of 15 or 16 poor players last night. Absolute gutter journalism. They should be ashamed of themselves.
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it is a very unfortunate situation and Dele simply has to work through it.
Performance-wise, it was always going to be tough as he was essentially the 10 working with team mates he hasn't played with that much. Had either Son or Kane been on with him? Different story altogether. I thought he did well, albeit his decision making was decidedly off (early chance to play Bale in for one on one) and once we conceded his head dropped and (as someone else observed) he looked cautious in possession.
I think there is more to his off-field stuff than is public, I think the gutter press know, and I think they are trying to brick-stir. It is unfortunate. I hope he can guide through the storm. As importantly, I hope those around him support him in being the best Dele he can be in all ways.
 
thfcsteff said:
it is a very unfortunate situation and Dele simply has to work through it.
Performance-wise, it was always going to be tough as he was essentially the 10 working with team mates he hasn't played with that much. Had either Son or Kane been on with him? Different story altogether. I thought he did well, albeit his decision making was decidedly off (early chance to play Bale in for one on one) and once we conceded his head dropped and (as someone else observed) he looked cautious in possession.
I think there is more to his off-field stuff than is public, I think the gutter press know, and I think they are trying to brick-stir. It is unfortunate. I hope he can guide through the storm. As importantly, I hope those around him support him in being the best Dele he can be in all ways.
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Any cryptic clues you can elegantly communicate?
 
braineclipse said:
I agree with quite a lot of that. I don't think you mean it as an either or kind of situation, but just to add a few points.

There have definitely been players that have felt part of "the family" before with Mourinho. Materazzi described him as "a shield, a friend, a father, a brother". Other than the obvious family points Mourinho will repeatedly shield his players. I think many appreciate that. But there are those things that I think Mourinho finds unacceptable, if that happens he's more likely to let the world know. Though he's pretty much just letting the world know what it already knows, that wasn't good enough.

There were quite a few players under Pochettino that were fairly quickly discarded. More early on, when we had more problems, but it definitely happened. One can only speculate, but what would have happened had it been Pochettino that walked in for the first time in the situation we were in a year ago? I think there would be quite a few that wouldn't have felt as part of a cohesive family by now.

The biggest difference to me is the willingness to criticise publicly. It's controversial, but it can work.

Two of the players that have been criticised publicly are Ndombele and Aurier. Though Aurier was delayed and through the documentary iirc. They have also been two of our most improved players under Mourinho. Ndombele is now imo an obvious starter, and Aurier is at least holding his own in competition with Doherty (a highly rated, PL experienced player). At the time when they were struggling I'm not sure highly competitive spirit would be the description people would use for either of them. The players need to show a highly competitive spirit, but they get the chance to show that if it isn't already obviously there.
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There is no one size fits all way of dealing with players so the public outing of Ndombele may of worked although talk is he wasn't even aware but might not work for others. I preferred Levys chat method.

Managers tread a dangerous line slagging their teams in public in my opinion, one time could be one time too many for some players
 
Hashegotthesackyet? said:
I know it can backfire but I’m glad he’s not pulling any punches. The players need to be more accountable and stop being such fannies. They’ve gone missing in too many big games before and need some harsh truths stated instead of pandering up to their egos.
As been said, he’s won lots of pots... they’ve won f all.
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Yup, reminds me of this interview with Bill Nicholson in which he laments how the players he had in the latter part of his tenure just weren’t of the same calibre as those in early 60s plus chews out Chivers for not fulfilling his potential.

 
SpurMeUp said:
Mourinho clearly got the team in at HT, freaked out said move the ball quicker, changed a tonne of players and packed them back out.

In hindsight, it wasn’t what was needed. He failed to upgrade the team. Probably undermined it. And what we needed was to recognise a few players weren’t match sharp or confident - get into them and hatch a plan to break them down. Plus he left on winks and Davies who seemed the most vulnerable. Changing them for Toby and Hojberg and I think we’d have come through.

Better to make mistakes now at this stage.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using glory-glory.co.uk mobile app
Click to expand...
I think the only changes he needed to make at HT were replacements for Bale and Bergwijn. The former was invisible and the latter turned over possession every time he got it. It is impossible to create chances in any game when both your 7 and 11 are having such poor games.
 
SteveAWOL said:
Yup, reminds me of this interview with Bill Nicholson in which he laments how the players he had in the latter part of his tenure just weren’t of the same calibre as those in early 60s plus chews out Chivers for not fulfilling his potential.

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Problem with that example is it proves that managers are not bullet proof. We won the league once, purchased arguably the best forward in world football and didn't win it as gas in so Bill Nic had his faults too, as does Jose that CL wins dont erase.
 
Finney Is Back said:
I think the only changes he needed to make at HT were replacements for Bale and Bergwijn. The former was invisible and the latter turned over possession every time he got it. It is impossible to create chances in any game when both your 7 and 11 are having such poor games.
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Bergwijn yes. Bale didn't do much wrong for me. He need clearer openings and would score. Even Bergwijn I would cut some slack, and let them both find their range and confidence. Both can and will finish. Bale didn't get any openings, and Bergwijn seems to be a on or off player. When on he's awesome, and when not, all over the place.
 
I think the main problem on Thursday was how we started. It set the tone and let the opposition gain confidence. A rusty side needed to get on the ball and into a rhythm. But the plan was to attack fast from the off. That meant Dele and others trying overly ambitious passes and losing the ball. With an unfamiliar team we needed to ease ourselves into the game. Keep the ball for a bit, build some confidence and then speed it up once settled.

The reality from Mourinho was the opposite. I am a fan of the Portugeeza. He is normally excellent. But not sure he got this one right. Nobody is perfect and better we messed up at this early stage when we can.
 
Fair play to Jose. 2nd in the league, but we looked knackered

Really think he needs to manage the squad better for EL games. He's rotating the team well, but I dont see that we need to take 10 first team players as subs to away games.

Leave Kane and Son at home this week for example, along with 4-5 others. Take say 16 first choice players plus Cirkin, White etc
 
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