Jan Vertonghen

[braineclipse]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

At the end of the day it will always come down to individual judgement. I was a huge admirer of BAE under Harry and frequently lauded his performances to the heavens, even so I agree his somewhat languid approach could at times be confused with indifference. But so marked was the contrast between his attitude, drive and commitment when playing well for Harry and his almost exaggeratedly negative body language and lack of commitment following his return from injury in the latter half of last season that I personally have little doubt it was down to attitude and commitment rather than form.

Sad to note he is also attracting similarly negative comments about his commitment for QPR currently.

BAE is not the perfect comparison of course, he did have some obvious issues. But despite that he performed really well for several seasons that have been amongst the most successful in our last couple of decades. My point was a slightly different one, about how a lot of players with various attitudes will end up dropping their heads and performance after a conflict with management.

Vertonghen isn't anywhere near "Ekotto attitude", yet people are ready to get rid at the first obstacle, under a manager that may be here only temporarily... I just don't get it.

I have to agree with this.

I've seen Benny play a few times for QPR recently and he has been disappointingly poor. There is a difference between a languid style of play and total lack of commitment, and in these matches at least there is no doubt in my mind. He doesn;t give a fook about QPR. I'm surprised he hasn't been benched actually. I guess he knows that he will be back at Spurs for pre-season and just maybe this might be the catalyst for a change in attitude from him. I'd love to see him back in the mix at Spurs and if he doesn't realise that he has a very good chance to oust the current incumbent then more the fool him.

When I look at Vertoghen I see something a bit different. I see frustration firstly, but also now petulance and maybe even lack of respect for his team mates. I could be totally wrong of course, but those recent press comments about moving to a CL club seem to tie in with what I am witnessing on the pitch. For a player of his ability he should be showing leadership and encouragement to his team mates and not the opposite. I really hope that I'm misreading his attitude.

Frustration, petulance and lack of respect might be undervalued as leadership qualities (And yes, that's not entirely serious)

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Similar question to you Steff...

What's Dawson's excuse?

Whenever Vertonghen makes a mistake it's because of his attitude, but when other players make mistakes it's just because they're not good enough. For whatever reason Vertonghen can't just be having a poor game or be out of form, it has to be an attitude problem?

Related situation: Ekotto's calm and relaxed attitude allowed him to be cool under pressure, he was a player we could actually trust to make proper passes. He even had a decent cross in him at times. We know Rose can strike a ball, but how often do we see him look up in frustration at his own poor cross, perhaps a more Ekotto-esque attitude could have been better. Intensity, aggression, how pumped up a player is, these all fall on a continuum and although there's an advantage to having players all the way at the super intensity side of things there are also many advantages to a more relaxed, calm attitude.

Same with Ade, if he misses a chance it's because he doesn't care. But if Defoe smashes it straight at the goalkeeper with the composure of a teenager with internet access at least his attitude is right. Right...? Or perhaps not, perhaps there's a connection between composure at key times and the overall attitude of a player?

Perhaps if Dawson was a bit cooler he wouldn't have gotten dragged in and cancelled out the offside for the goal against Norwich. Not saying it was all Dawson's fault, Rose and of course Bentaleb have to shoulder a lot of the blame. But had that been Vertonghen cancelling out the offside I'm sure someone would be saying it's because of his ****ty concentration levels and a result of him being lazy and not caring anymore. Yet Dawson is always "trying his hardest", cool as a cucumber plunging into a stir fry.

Mate,

You're seriously barking up the wrong tree with me in regards to Daws. I've been ****ged by some here for ages because I called him out as not being good enough. It doesn't mean I don't recognize his spirit. Vertonghen has been coasting for too long and for too many games this season; some terrible decisions and NOT making the difference when he absolutely could make the difference. A poor game now and then? Of course it happens. But if you can honestly tell me you don't believe the lad's attitude has been largely ****ty this season, then I'd have to question whether your bias is clouding your perception.

Again, same with Ade, wrong tree here mate, I've defended him staunchly for over a year now. As for the final bit, well yes, of course. But Daws hasn't been cooler, he's been charging about like a schoolboy…BW, you say Bentaleb has to shoulder a lot of the blame, the second he lost the ball, he persued the ball carrier and chased him into a release. Had Rose bothered to cover, we'd have snuffed the danger out easily.

I will wholeheartedly admit that for me, a corner has been turned with Verts. I cannot abide great players who moan and play within themselves/start hinting at moves away when things aren't peachy-creamy for them.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Mate,

You're seriously barking up the wrong tree with me in regards to Daws. I've been ****ged by some here for ages because I called him out as not being good enough. It doesn't mean I don't recognize his spirit. Vertonghen has been coasting for too long and for too many games this season; some terrible decisions and NOT making the difference when he absolutely could make the difference. A poor game now and then? Of course it happens. But if you can honestly tell me you don't believe the lad's attitude has been largely ****ty this season, then I'd have to question whether your bias is clouding your perception.

Again, same with Ade, wrong tree here mate, I've defended him staunchly for over a year now. As for the final bit, well yes, of course. But Daws hasn't been cooler, he's been charging about like a schoolboy…BW, you say Bentaleb has to shoulder a lot of the blame, the second he lost the ball, he persued the ball carrier and chased him into a release. Had Rose bothered to cover, we'd have snuffed the danger out easily.

I will wholeheartedly admit that for me, a corner has been turned with Verts. I cannot abide great players who moan and play within themselves/start hinting at moves away when things aren't peachy-creamy for them.

With you all the way here.

 

[Rorschach]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Frustration, petulance and lack of respect might be undervalued as leadership qualities (And yes, that's not entirely serious)

There always room for a bit of emotion on the pitch, and there's nothing wrong with a team-mate or especially a team captain calling out another team-mate when they have done something particularly stupid or displayed lack of commitment. There is a way of conveying this message which gets the point across and hopefully gets the player to respond in a positive way.

There's a wider question here on what makes a good team captain. I know some believe the captain's role doesn't mean a whole lot, but I'm of the opinion that the captain can inspire a team and at critical times in the match and is another 'weapon' to be used to achieve the team goals. Ironically I am selecting a team captain for my own bunch. In my case I am asking them to show me the qualities I am seeking rather than awarding the armband and hoping they will develop into it. And in the case of Spurs I would hope Tim wouldn't award Vertoghen captaincy as he hasn't earned it yet. Making him captain might sway him to stay or up his game, but it would send the wrong message. For the record I don't think Dawson is a great captain either as his decision making is not great. Sandro would be a good candidate IMO.

 

[Modric THFC]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

What's Dawson's excuse? What's Rose's What was Walker's excuse when he had his poor run?

Man with relaxed body language makes mistake - oh, ****s sake, lazy git. Man with pumped up body language lets ball bounce over his head - oh, at least he's trying.

Mistake on Thursday? Which mistakes are you talking about by the way? Did he make more mistakes than Rose and Dawson?

Vertonghen has always looked calm and relaxed on the pitch. Very often that's an advantage.



Spot on. Ekotto got so much stick for his attitude, but he kept doing his job.

I'm not basing this on one game or one mistake.
I've seen Vertonghen a player with a ridiculous amount of talent and potential fail to progress over the last 2 years.
I expected him to step up and become a leader at the back.
He has the ability to make things happen with his passing yet he usually lets Dawson be the one to play it forward.
He seems to not want any responsibly or do anything that isn't within what he narrowly defines as being a central defender.

He's an Aaron Lennon of a center back. All the potential in the world but couldnt be arsed being any better.
He could be a Bale of a center back.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

I'm not basing this on one game or one mistake.
I've seen Vertonghen a player with a ridiculous amount of talent and potential fail to progress over the last 2 years.
I expected him to step up and become a leader at the back.
He has the ability to make things happen with his passing yet he usually lets Dawson be the one to play it forward.
He seems to not want any responsibly or do anything that isn't within what he narrowly defines as being a central defender.

He's an Aaron Lennon of a center back. All the potential in the world but couldnt be arsed being any better.
He could be a Bale of a center back.

=D> to all in bold…funny, when I watched Bale last night, I was reminded of how hard the lad worked to be where he is. He really put a major shift in season after season…looking back, he really earned the right (as much as I abhor the way in which Madrid and his agent worked both the move and the lad when he'd given his word to be here one more season)...

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

=D> to all in bold…funny, when I watched Bale last night, I was reminded of how hard the lad worked to be where he is. He really put a major shift in season after season…looking back, he really earned the right (as much as I abhor the way in which Madrid and his agent worked both the move and the lad when he'd given his word to be here one more season)...

Rob Easom (?) this week on The Spurs Show podcast made allusions to the fact that Bale was prepared to stay for another and that Levy was messing around with his contract so much that he got ****ed off and decided to go to Madrid sooner rather than later.

 

[thfcsteff]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Rob Easom (?) this week on The Spurs Show podcast made allusions to the fact that Bale was prepared to stay for another and that Levy was messing around with his contract so much that he got ****ed off and decided to go to Madrid sooner rather than later.

Not what I heard. It was Madrid who pulled a 'now or never' move and forced the player/agent to dig in heels and make a fight of it…I believe the deal was all fine for Bale…there's something about it all which doesn't match up though, something that no-one other than Levy and Barnet know, of that I'm positive.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Verts got a ton of stick on the Guardian Minute by Minute for his reaction to the headbutt.

 

[elltrev]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Verts got a ton of stick on the Guardian Minute by Minute for his reaction to the headbutt.

Rightly so IMO, though I only started watching a minute before that so don't know if there was some stuff earlier that justified it.

 

[SPURSphenomenon]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

I say well done Jan. That little twerp was diving about and part of their time wasting mob. That moment could have saved our season (for now)

 

[Spur of the moment]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Rightly so IMO, though I only started watching a minute before that so don't know if there was some stuff earlier that justified it.

Not proud of the way Vertonghen overreacted but so glad that **** Zuzulia got everything that was coming to him.

 

[Spursalot]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Verts got a ton of stick on the Guardian Minute by Minute for his reaction to the headbutt.

He was a bit of a pansy, would the other guy have gotten his deserved punishment if verts hadn't gone down though?

We'll never know.

 

[Cochise]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

The guy threw his head towards Jan and despite it only being minimal contact is deserved of a Red. I don't like the way he went down, but IF he did not then there is every chance the ref wouldn't have done anything about it.

Anyways Zuzulia was being a little **** all night nibbling away at our lads and I was more ****ed that he scored than us actually conceding.

 

[billyiddo]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

just seen the incident - at the game it seemed that the Dnipro players were guilty of the same kind of stuff throughout the game - is that how it came across on tv?

 

[Lilywhite]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

I'm disappointed in Vertonghen personally, I hate when players exaggerate little things like that just to get an advantage. Modern day players need to man up.

Mind you they were at it like hammer and tongs all game those two. An hour long spat, it seemed inevitable one would be getting sent off and luckily it turned out to be their guy.

 

[Libero]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

just seen the incident - at the game it seemed that the Dnipro players were guilty of the same kind of stuff throughout the game - is that how it came across on tv?

I was at the game too and it seemed to me that every time a Spurs player challenged, it was likely to end in a Dnipro literally rolling around or laying motionless in order to waste time and get players booked.

Didn't see the Vertonghen incident but I say well done. Teams have been doing stuff like that to English teams for years and whilst you don't like to see it being done, you would have to say the Dnipro player has no reason to do it at all. Its a complete loss of control and deserves to be punished for its stupidity even if Vertonghen overreacted.

 

[90291Spur]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

I'm disappointed in Vertonghen personally, I hate when players exaggerate little things like that just to get an advantage. Modern day players need to man up.

Mind you they were at it like hammer and tongs all game those two. An hour long spat, it seemed inevitable one would be getting sent off and luckily it turned out to be their guy.

We will never know the exact facts of what happened. From what I have seen it caught Jan near the cheekbone and might have been painful. But he is a professional footballer and probably made the most of it. The bottom line is the guy should not have made contact. And all the Chel$ki fans complaining about it can suck a big one given their team and history with diving and play acting.

 

[SUIYHA]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Absolutely disgusting behaviour. Gutted to see a Spurs player doing that. Players get retrospective punishments for violent conduct if the ref doesn't spot it, IMO there should be rules to retrospectively ban Vertonghen for something like that.

Yeah Zozulya was acting like a ****. But why do we need to sink below their level? I thought we were supposed to be the club with integrity? I've seen people on here write that we'd rather not have players like Terry or Suarez playing for us because we'd rather take the moral high ground, so where are you now?

If Vertonghen played for Arsenal or Chelsea this board would be going nuts at him. Instead we've got people saying that the Zozulya deserved it, or that there was contact?!?!?!?!?!? So pathetic. We had to cheat to beat an awful team to progress in an awful competition. Such an embarrassing time to be a Spurs fan.

 

[Daisuk]

Re: Super Jan Vertonghen Official

Not proud of the way Vertonghen overreacted but so glad that **** Zuzulia got everything that was coming to him.

Exactly. It was completely justified just to get that little prick off.