Is it more difficult for us to win the league than any other team?

[Baleforce]

Maybe it stems from the fact that most seasons a lot of teams have little to play for except bragging rights? And in the old days when we could actually got to the pub and work there’d be more interaction with local rival fans?
Maybe older posters can correct me but when I was a kid I’m sure there used to be a less tribal attitude, like hoping english teams do well in Europe, preferring all London clubs over others but that may be because my dad had no real interest and growing up in the 80s in the Keynes my nearest teams were Northampton and Luton!)

bragging rights aren't a thing you "win" though, they are transitory

I think it is different now, and I'm basing that all on the fact that Bruce Forsyth used to go to the Lane or Highbury depending on who was at home

we don't need arsenal to fail for us to succeed

 

[Jurgen the German]

Glad you've raised this as i've said this 1000x times myself to friends.

No one has as many rivals as Spurs which actually is hugely detrimental to us as a club.

West Ham's biggest rivals: Spurs
Chelsea's biggest rivals: Spurs
Arsenal's biggest rivals: Spurs

i don't really count teams like Fulham and Palace or even Southampton anymore, there's not really a meaningful rivalry there. But the 3 main London clubs above, it's the old "what's the first fixture you look for when the calendar comes out", and for all 3 of those based on all the fans i know supporting those clubs, it's Tottenham.

West Ham roll over for Arsenal out of a mutual admiration of dislike of Spurs, Chelsea v West Ham is big because both fans try to decide who's got the bigger dingdongheads, but Chelsea v Arsenal doesn't have an underlying hatred like we do with all 3.

No team in the league has 3 rival teams gunning for them like we do. So definitely detrimental in my eyes.

Man United have at least three teams who class United as their main rival; Liverpool, City and Leeds. Everyone hates United. They are more hated than Spurs. Hasn’t stopped them winning the league 20 times.

Chelsea and Arsenal don’t like each other. Not on the same level as the clubs dislike for us kind. I don’t get why West Ham don’t even consider Arsenal in their top 5. They’re even closer in proximity to them than we are.

 

[Diamond Lights]

Man United have at least three teams who class United as their main rival; Liverpool, City and Leeds. Everyone hates United. They are more hated than Spurs. Hasn’t stopped them winning the league 20 times.

Chelsea and Arsenal don’t like each other. Not on the same level as the clubs dislike for us kind. I don’t get why West Ham don’t even consider Arsenal in their top 5. They’re even closer in proximity to them than we are.

in the last 20 years, Leeds weren't even in the league and the first 10 years nearly City were utter brick and again, in some seasons not even in the PL.

West Ham love Arsenal and would roll over for them to affect Spurs, like a kindred love in. pricks.

Also, and this comes into psychological perspective and i have zero evidence to back up... but United, even now, are still United. And that prescene alone built of years gone by means teams respect them. Conversly with us, i still feel it's a bit "lads it's Tottenham, we can beat them" when smaller teams face us. I feel like, based on former glory, some teams (Arsenal, United) get more respect than we do.

 

[Jurgen the German]

There is logic to hating someone if they are a clam.

Hating the guy next door, just because he's next door, is odd, you live in the same area, you have shared experiences, go to the same pubs and shops, know the same people, there are existing bridges for a relationship.

Yeah but Arsenal’s players and fans relentlessly took the tinkle out of us when we were brick and we finishing miles below them every year. They won the league at our ground. Their fans are up there as the most arrogant in the league. Then there’s the St Totteringham’s day nonsense but having the cheek to claim we are obsessed with them. Liverpool fans don’t really care if Spurs are brick. Arsenal revel in it. Local rivalries matter. You always want to beat the teams close to you. Finishing above Liverpool or city has no relevance to me other than it will probably mean we will win the league. And that’s without mentioning the fact that arsenal, Chelsea and WHU have denied us numerous trophies, top 4 finishes, cup finals etc as a direct result of losing to them and finishing 5th directly below those clubs. Those three clubs have denied us more trophies and CL entries than any club I think of.

 

[Baleforce]

Yeah but Arsenal’s players and fans relentlessly took the tinkle out of us when we were brick and we finishing miles below them every year. They won the league at our ground. Their fans are up there as the most arrogant in the league. Then there’s the St Totteringham’s day nonsense but having the cheek to claim we are obsessed with them. Liverpool fans don’t really care if Spurs are brick. Arsenal revel in it. Local rivalries matter. You always want to beat the teams close to you. Finishing above Liverpool or city has no relevance to me other than it will probably mean we will win the league. And that’s without mentioning the fact that arsenal, Chelsea and WHU have denied us numerous trophies, top 4 finishes, cup finals etc as a direct result of losing to them and finishing 5th directly below those clubs. Those three clubs have denied us more trophies and CL entries than any club I think of.

I don't have that experience, I only know a few arsenal fans and they are all reasonable, conversely, I know about a million dipper fans, they are all clams and relentlessly took the tinkle even when we were a mile above them, not to mention of course getting us banned from Europe for most of the 80's.

I don't want to beat the teams close to us, I want to beat everyone, the only thing thats denied us trophies and CL entries is our own incompetence imo.

 

[Jurgen the German]

in the last 20 years, Leeds weren't even in the league and the first 10 years nearly City were utter brick and again, in some seasons not even in the PL.

West Ham love Arsenal and would roll over for them to affect Spurs, like a kindred love in. pricks.

Also, and this comes into psychological perspective and i have zero evidence to back up... but United, even now, are still United. And that prescene alone built of years gone by means teams respect them. Conversly with us, i still feel it's a bit "lads it's Tottenham, we can beat them" when smaller teams face us. I feel like, based on former glory, some teams (Arsenal, United) get more respect than we do.

United in Fergie’s heyday had to deal with Leeds, Liverpool, City etc not to mention Arsenal who temporarily saw United as their big rival as opposed to Spurs. Most neutrals outside of London would have sooner seen Arsenal win the league rather than United. Teams in the north like Bolton, Blackburn, Leeds among others hate United and would rather anyone but them win the league.

I’m not saying it’s easy for us to win it, but I completely disagree it’s harder for us than anyone else to win the league. It just sounds like an excuse and a bit of a defeatist attitude. If we are good enough then we will win it, regardless of who hates us.

 

[Jurgen the German]

I don't have that experience, I only know a few arsenal fans and they are all reasonable, conversely, I know about a million dipper fans, they are all clams and relentlessly took the tinkle even when we were a mile above them, not to mention of course getting us banned from Europe for most of the 80's.

I don't want to beat the teams close to us, I want to beat everyone, the only thing thats denied us trophies and CL entries is our own incompetence imo.

Weve lost to arsenal and Chelsea countless times in semis and finals. Other than the CL final when have we ever lost to Liverpool in the latter stages of a tournament? When have they ever denied us top 4 or dented a title challenge like the above two + West Ham have? Arsenal players are always having digs at our expense; Sneezy, Wheelchair, Walcott, Fabregas, Henry.

 

[Baleforce]

Weve lost to arsenal and Chelsea countless times in semis and finals. Other than the CL final when have we ever lost to Liverpool in the latter stages of a tournament? When have they ever denied us top 4 or dented a title challenge like the above two + West Ham have? Arsenal players are always having digs at our expense; Sneezy, Wheelchair, Walcott, Fabregas, Henry.

If you are going to go back that far (Henry who?) then lets chuck in the dipper cheating in the 1982 League Cup final too.

Those games against Arsenal and Chelsea were not them stopping us, they were us bricking the bed, the only increase hatred I had after those was for ourselves.

 

[Yiddo]

Behind Liverpool we are the team no one wants to win the league.

 

[Jurgen the German]

If you are going to go back that far (Henry who?) then lets chuck in the dipper cheating in the 1982 League Cup final too.

Those games against Arsenal and Chelsea were not them stopping us, they were us bricking the bed, the only increase hatred I had after those was for ourselves.

Thierry Henry of course. They won the league at WHL and he couldn’t understand why our fans were celebrating the equaliser to make it 2-2. What an arrogant thing to say! We all knew the goal wasn’t enough to stop them winning the league but it was a small consolation, getting a draw from 0-2 down against a great side.

 

[Jurgen the German]

Behind Liverpool we are the team no one wants to win the league.

Really? More than Man United?

 

[Yiddo]

Really? More than Man United?

I think so, United have been there and done it and adding one more to the many they have is not going to be a big deal for most of the fans from other teams outside of City, Liverpool and Leeds. With us and the way people hate us and how the internet is just full of toxic football fans i think the majority will not want us to do it.

The days are gone when people cheered the underdog. Leicester was a one off as they come out of no where and were never going to be a genuine threat again.

 

[parklane1]

I 0's.

I don't want to beat the teams close to us, I want to beat everyone, the only thing thats denied us trophies and CL entries is our own incompetence imo.

This.