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I liked Erik Lamela before it was cool

elltrev said:
Your wish is my command:

Interestingly Lamela seems to much better in Europa League AND Champions League - though obviously the sample size is much smaller, so more influenced by random fluctuation.

PL: 6 goals, 9 assists per 3000 mins (on average) - based on 8021 total mins
CL: 8 goals, 23 assists per 3000 mins (on average) - based on 783 total mins
EL: 20 goals, 4 assists per 3000 mins (on average) - based on 1359 total mins

Eriksen's fairly consistent:

PL: 8 goals, 10 assists per 3000 mins - based on 17926 total mins
CL: 7 goals, 8 assists per 3000 mins - based on 2133 total mins
EL: 11 goals, 9 assists per 3000 mins - based on 1386 total mins

Alli's worst in EL, though very small sample size:

PL: 12 goals, 8 asissts per 3000 mins - based on 10635 total mins
CL: 5 goals, 12 assists per 3000 mins - based on 1953 total mins
EL: 0 goals, 8 assists per 3000 mins - based on 756 total mins

In terms of PL and CL combined (i.e. EL removed):

Lamela: 6 goals, 10 assists
Eriksen: 8 goals, 10 assists
Alli: 11 goals, 9 assists

So Lamela does indeed look a bit worse without the EL. Interesting that he has same number of assists as Eriksen though.
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So all in all some mixed returns
 
elltrev said:
Your wish is my command:

Interestingly Lamela seems to much better in Europa League AND Champions League - though obviously the sample size is much smaller, so more influenced by random fluctuation.

PL: 6 goals, 9 assists per 3000 mins (on average) - based on 8021 total mins
CL: 8 goals, 23 assists per 3000 mins (on average) - based on 783 total mins
EL: 20 goals, 4 assists per 3000 mins (on average) - based on 1359 total mins

Eriksen's fairly consistent:

PL: 8 goals, 10 assists per 3000 mins - based on 17926 total mins
CL: 7 goals, 8 assists per 3000 mins - based on 2133 total mins
EL: 11 goals, 9 assists per 3000 mins - based on 1386 total mins

Alli's worst in EL, though very small sample size:

PL: 12 goals, 8 asissts per 3000 mins - based on 10635 total mins
CL: 5 goals, 12 assists per 3000 mins - based on 1953 total mins
EL: 0 goals, 8 assists per 3000 mins - based on 756 total mins

In terms of PL and CL combined (i.e. EL removed):

Lamela: 6 goals, 10 assists
Eriksen: 8 goals, 10 assists
Alli: 11 goals, 9 assists

So Lamela does indeed look a bit worse without the EL. Interesting that he has same number of assists as Eriksen though.
Click to expand...

What that says is we have 3 midfielders with a lot of offensive capability (those are way better than ok stats), and yes almost everyone on this board underestimates Lamela.

And you could make a very easy correlation, Dele scores the most but does the least defensively, Lamela the exact opposite with Eriksen in-between.

It unfortunately highlights how badly this team is underperforming as well, with those 3 midfielders and Kane, Son and Lucas in front of them the vast majority of our last 40+ games are less than 2 goals output.
 
Raziel said:
What that says is we have 3 midfielders with a lot of offensive capability (those are way better than ok stats), and yes almost everyone on this board underestimates Lamela.

And you could make a very easy correlation, Dele scores the most but does the least defensively, Lamela the exact opposite with Eriksen in-between.

It unfortunately highlights how badly this team is underperforming as well, with those 3 midfielders and Kane, Son and Lucas in front of them the vast majority of our last 40+ games are less than 2 goals output.
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Well it depends on how heavily you weight your opinions on stats. I do like stats as they can be illustrative of certain information but these kind of stats are not particularly granular.

You can for example disregard the EL stats for this season as we are not competing in it so there is quite a drop for Lamela in that regard suggesting he fares better the lower the quality of the opposition (which is to be expected).

Again these stats don't give you detailed game information which I think is far more important considering the positions they play on the pitch. Things like pass selection, execution of said pass, was the pass comfortably into stride (ala Ndombele) or fizzed into feet with the player's back to goal (a much harder pass to control and lower quality one). That is where Lamela is significantly behind Eriksen, he has decent vision and can see a pass but his actual quality of pass is low and decision making pretty questionable and in the tighter higher pressure matches that's where it shows through and hence the criticism Lamela receives.

He is a good squad option no doubt but I would not be happy with him being our go to starting ACM when he just isn't of the required quality sadly.

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Bishop said:
Well it depends on how heavily you weight your opinions on stats. I do like stats as they can be illustrative of certain information but these kind of stats are not particularly granular.

You can for example disregard the EL stats for this season as we are not competing in it so there is quite a drop for Lamela in that regard suggesting he fares better the lower the quality of the opposition (which is to be expected).

Again these stats don't give you detailed game information which I think is far more important considering the positions they play on the pitch. Things like pass selection, execution of said pass, was the pass comfortably into stride (ala Ndombele) or fizzed into feet with the player's back to goal (a much harder pass to control and lower quality one). That is where Lamela is significantly behind Eriksen, he has decent vision and can see a pass but his actual quality of pass is low and decision making pretty questionable and in the tighter higher pressure matches that's where it shows through and hence the criticism Lamela receives.

He is a good squad option no doubt but I would not be happy with him being our go to starting ACM when he just isn't of the required quality sadly.

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There is no other way to see 3 midfielders who very regularly contribute goals and assists, plus two of the better strikers in the PL in front of them plus one of the better sub striker options providing 1.6 goals a game.

I disagree with the perception that Lamela is not good enough, I agree he will probably never be fit enough for us to depend on, which kind of mitigates the point

As example, based on form this season (before injury) our midfield and front line would look like -> Sissoko, N'dombele, Son, Lo Celso, Lamela, Kane. The Dele fans will jump in, but until Lamela went out, he was streets ahead in performance this season.

Ideally they are all fit and our manager actually picks on performance vs. name/reputation.
 
Raziel said:
There is no other way to see 3 midfielders who very regularly contribute goals and assists, plus two of the better strikers in the PL in front of them plus one of the better sub striker options providing 1.6 goals a game.

I disagree with the perception that Lamela is not good enough, I agree he will probably never be fit enough for us to depend on, which kind of mitigates the point

As example, based on form this season (before injury) our midfield and front line would look like -> Sissoko, N'dombele, Son, Lo Celso, Lamela, Kane. The Dele fans will jump in, but until Lamela went out, he was streets ahead in performance this season.

Ideally they are all fit and our manager actually picks on performance vs. name/reputation.
Click to expand...

Well assists are a product of the last pass, that doesn't convey creativity. For these players to get into position to play that final ball (however complicated or simple it is) there needs to be build up play that leads to openings. That is what we have especially lacked this season but something I feel we have always lacked to a certain extent hence why I was so happy to see the addition of a good passing capable CM in Ndombele (and potentially Lo Celso).

Regarding your form line, you can't include Lo Celso as he's literally had 1 match and Sissoko is a black hole in terms of passing creativity. We have for many years now played through Eriksen and with Eriksen's poor form and uncertain future you can't be surprised that the existing system has ground to a halt. Remember we have played many games this season with a midfield of Sissoko and Winks which is frankly awful.

I know we won't agree with regards to Lamela's quality, I see him as a upper midtable starting ACM not a solid Top 4 and title challenging one. Even Eriksen falls down in the title challenging aspect and there is a significant difference in their abilities.

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Bishop said:
Well assists are a product of the last pass, that doesn't convey creativity. For these players to get into position to play that final ball (however complicated or simple it is) there needs to be build up play that leads to openings. That is what we have especially lacked this season but something I feel we have always lacked to a certain extent hence why I was so happy to see the addition of a good passing capable CM in Ndombele (and potentially Lo Celso).

Regarding your form line, you can't include Lo Celso as he's literally had 1 match and Sissoko is a black hole in terms of passing creativity. We have for many years now played through Eriksen and with Eriksen's poor form and uncertain future you can't be surprised that the existing system has ground to a halt. Remember we have played many games this season with a midfield of Sissoko and Winks which is frankly awful.

I know we won't agree with regards to Lamela's quality, I see him as a upper midtable starting ACM not a solid Top 4 and title challenging one. Even Eriksen falls down in the title challenging aspect and there is a significant difference in their abilities.

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Wow mate .. a form Eriksen?

Just out of curiosity, are you rating Dele higher than Eriksen?
 
Raziel said:
Wow mate .. a form Eriksen?

Just out of curiosity, are you rating Dele higher than Eriksen?
Click to expand...
Noooooo.

I was just keeping the convo between Eriksen and Lamela as they are more directly comparable in playing style and attributes.



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Raziel said:
I disagree with the perception that Lamela is not good enough, I agree he will probably never be fit enough for us to depend on, which kind of mitigates the point
Click to expand...

I've always quite like Lamela. He's aggressive and gives his all (not that we thought that was the type of player we were getting). And his injury record, although annoying as we can't rely on him, probably keeps him thankful to be at our club and from our pov a very high level squad member.

When available:D:D..of course.

Just too add....luckily he doesn't appear to be a player that needs a run of games to get up to speed either. So in and out the side is not a problem.
 
elltrev said:
...

In terms of PL and CL combined (i.e. EL removed):

Lamela: 6 goals, 10 assists
Eriksen: 8 goals, 10 assists
Alli: 11 goals, 9 assists

So Lamela does indeed look a bit worse without the EL. Interesting that he has same number of assists as Eriksen though.
Click to expand...
Goes to show quite what a prospect Ndombele is that his per 3000 minutes stats already compare favourably with those 3 attackers, despite having just moved to a new country at the age of 22 and being a CMF!

Ndombele: 7 goals, 11 assists per 3000 mins (based on 838 total mins in CL + PL)
 
SteveAWOL said:
Goes to show quite what a prospect Ndombele is that his per 3000 minutes stats already compare favourably with those 3 attackers, despite having just moved to a new country at the age of 22 and being a CMF!

Ndombele: 7 goals, 11 assists per 3000 mins (based on 838 total mins in CL + PL)
Click to expand...


And in a misfiring and mismanaged team.
 
I think Lamela will be the ideal player for Mourinho with his "win-at-all-costs" mentality, work rate and creativity. But his current injury problems won't help him at all to get himself back into the team under Mourinho.
 
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