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How many players in our squad are consistent top 4 quality?

Maltese Falcon

Maltese Falcon

Niko Kranjcar
To me:
Lloris: that's a massive YES from me - world class
Walker: for all his critics, to me it's a yes
Fazio: no
Verthongen: would love to say yes but honestly only does it sporadically
Rose: no
Bentaleb: I would say yes
Mason: much to my regret, I would say no though he can produce some excellent games
Dembele: has the potential to be but unlikely to happen consistently
Lamela: possibly but not on what he is currently showing
Eriksen: big YES again
Kane: definitely YES
Chadli: easy no there
Davies: same
Townsend: very funny...
Soldado: no comment
Adebayor: could so much be if he really wanted to... but we know he doesn't
Paulinho: if only!
Dier: maybe in a couple of years time.


That's 5 definite yeses and another three maybes/inconsistent. Pretty much correlates with our form...
 
Consistent top 4 quality? What does that even mean?
Is Szczesny any good? No he's a terrible inconsistent keeper you cant rely on. But he finished top 4 every year.
 
All of them except Kaboul and Paulinho

There is nothing between 3rd-6th. Us, Liverpool, United and Arsenal are much of a muchness. We are a bit younger and at an earlier stage of growing a side, but we're very close.
 
Maltese Falcon said:
To me:
Lloris: that's a massive YES from me - world class
Walker: for all his critics, to me it's a yes
Fazio: no
Verthongen: would love to say yes but honestly only does it sporadically
Rose: no
Bentaleb: I would say yes
Mason: much to my regret, I would say no though he can produce some excellent games
Dembele: has the potential to be but unlikely to happen consistently
Lamela: possibly but not on what he is currently showing
Eriksen: big YES again
Kane: definitely YES
Chadli: easy no there
Davies: same
Townsend: very funny...
Soldado: no comment
Adebayor: could so much be if he really wanted to... but we know he doesn't
Paulinho: if only!
Dier: maybe in a couple of years time.


That's 5 definite yeses and another three maybes/inconsistent. Pretty much correlates with our form...
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Strange seeing as you ask about consistency, yet Eriksen is our most inconsistent player.
 
Litmus test: which of our players would be sought after by the big four (United, City, Gooners, Chelsea)?

Lloris - yes, although interesting that none of them has come in for him to date
Walker - yes, rumoured that United might be in for him
Fazio - unlikely
Dier - not yet anyway
Kaboul - best he can hope for now is somewhere like Hull City or Sunderland
Chiriches - ditto
Vertonghen - has looked the part recently but see Lloris
Rose - no because he does not quite have the class going forward
Davies - long way off

Capoue - on a downward spiral
Bentaleb - not sure, but it's conceivable
Mason - no, although if we make it into the CL next season you can see him keeping his place
Stambouli - no, but decent squad player for us as a top four club
Dembele - no, but see Mason
Eriksen - summer window bound to be difficult but Levy needs to hold out one more season
Paulinho - no way

Townsend - has already reached his limit
Lamela - ditto
Chadli - not atm, but there's surely more to come from him

Kane - of course, but Levy won't be having any of it just yet
Ade - the only way is down - and out
Soldadud - the clue is in the name
 
Spur of the moment said:
Litmus test: which of our players would be sought after by the big four (United, City, Gooners, Chelsea)?

Lloris - yes, although interesting that none of them has come in for him to date
Walker - yes, rumoured that United might be in for him
Fazio - unlikely
Dier - not yet anyway
Kaboul - best he can hope for now is somewhere like Hull City or Sunderland
Chiriches - ditto
Vertonghen - has looked the part recently but see Lloris
Rose - no because he does not quite have the class going forward
Davies - long way off

Capoue - on a downward spiral
Bentaleb - not sure, but it's conceivable
Mason - no, although if we make it into the CL next season you can see him keeping his place
Stambouli - no, but decent squad player for us as a top four club
Dembele - no, but see Mason
Eriksen - summer window bound to be difficult but Levy needs to hold out one more season
Paulinho - no way

Townsend - has already reached his limit
Lamela - ditto
Chadli - not atm, but there's surely more to come from him

Kane - of course, but Levy won't be having any of it just yet
Ade - the only way is down - and out
Soldadud - the clue is in the name
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Agree with most of these comments. We have only a few real top quality players at the moment, although we do have a number of young players who have great potential. Top four is beyond us this season for that reason IMO.
 
Modric THFC said:
Consistent top 4 quality? What does that even mean?
Is Szczesny any good? No he's a terrible inconsistent keeper you cant rely on. But he finished top 4 every year.
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Exactly. You dont need a squad of complete top 4 quality players to make the top 4. Thats a myth. Unless you have the money of Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea then your squad will always be a mixture.

Its up to the manager to improve the players and make even those of less ability "fit" to make the team succeed. Thats the sign of a good manager. For example, look at Man Utd under Fergie and the likes of O'Shea, Fletcher, Ji Sung Park, Anderson, Nani etc.
 
i have my doubts about eriksen... i think its far too easy to hassle him out of a game.

of the lot loris and kane have the consistent performances to be sought after by CL clubs. the rest i can see as being hopeful in "moving up".
 
Yes - Lloris, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane
With time - Bentaleb, Dier
Close - Walker, Chadli
Squad Level - Mason, Rose, Lamela, Soldado, Stambouli, Davies, Fazio, Chiriches, Townsend, Dembele, Vorm
No - Paulinho, Kaboul, Capoue, Ade

I rate Vertonghen and I think this season he has played like a top 4 player.
Bentaleb and Dier are both young and very good for their age. Given time, they have the ability to get there, but need to be nurtured.
Walker would be good enough in a top 4 side, but for me he makes individual mistakes too often to be called a top four player. Chadli has the stats this season to say he is close. He won't single handedly carry a team, but he has been clinical in front of goal this season (though not of late).
That "squad level" list needs trimming, although the players listed in the "no" group need shedding first.

If we want to step up next season, we need to get in a top class midfielder and one more winger/wide striker who will instantly up our game. I'd be prepared to leave Rose and Davies be for at least another year and then re-assess. ATM I don't think either of them look like the real deal, but both have their merits.
 
Vertonghen was during his first season for us, but he looked like he couldn't be arsed at times last season. This season I think he looks more motivated, but the errors are still creeping in. I still think he's the best defender in our squad.
 
Cochise said:
Yes - Lloris, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane
With time - Bentaleb, Dier
Close - Walker, Chadli
Squad Level - Mason, Rose, Lamela, Soldado, Stambouli, Davies, Fazio, Chiriches, Townsend, Dembele, Vorm
No - Paulinho, Kaboul, Capoue, Ade

I rate Vertonghen and I think this season he has played like a top 4 player.
Bentaleb and Dier are both young and very good for their age. Given time, they have the ability to get there, but need to be nurtured.
Walker would be good enough in a top 4 side, but for me he makes individual mistakes too often to be called a top four player. Chadli has the stats this season to say he is close. He won't single handedly carry a team, but he has been clinical in front of goal this season (though not of late).
That "squad level" list needs trimming, although the players listed in the "no" group need shedding first.

If we want to step up next season, we need to get in a top class midfielder and one more winger/wide striker who will instantly up our game. I'd be prepared to leave Rose and Davies be for at least another year and then re-assess. ATM I don't think either of them look like the real deal, but both have their merits.
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Agree with most of that. Except I would put Chiriches below squad level.
 
Cochise said:
Yes - Lloris, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane
With time - Bentaleb, Dier
Close - Walker, Chadli
Squad Level - Mason, Rose, Lamela, Soldado, Stambouli, Davies, Fazio, Chiriches, Townsend, Dembele, Vorm
No - Paulinho, Kaboul, Capoue, Ade

I rate Vertonghen and I think this season he has played like a top 4 player.
Bentaleb and Dier are both young and very good for their age. Given time, they have the ability to get there, but need to be nurtured.
Walker would be good enough in a top 4 side, but for me he makes individual mistakes too often to be called a top four player. Chadli has the stats this season to say he is close. He won't single handedly carry a team, but he has been clinical in front of goal this season (though not of late).
That "squad level" list needs trimming, although the players listed in the "no" group need shedding first.

If we want to step up next season, we need to get in a top class midfielder and one more winger/wide striker who will instantly up our game. I'd be prepared to leave Rose and Davies be for at least another year and then re-assess. ATM I don't think either of them look like the real deal, but both have their merits.
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I broadly agree with your divisions, but for me that's for a title challenging team, rather than a top 4 team. We're already top 4 level
 
Gutter Boy said:
I broadly agree with your divisions, but for me that's for a title challenging team, rather than a top 4 team. We're already top 4 level
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Top 4 quality these days is just a shade of consitency away from title chasing. We don't have a team containing players like Sanchez, Di Maria or Sterling. If we compare to the teams in the mix for 3rd and 4th we are found lacking in most departments.

1 - A top striker - Pelle, RVP, Giroud (I don't rate him, but his stats are good) & Sturridge. We have Kane so we check out there.

2 - Creativity from midfield - We have Eriksen with individual moments of brilliance, but do we have anyone else to rely on? Chadli has been clinical this season getting plenty of goals, but he can be quite ineffectual at times. Compare to the threat that other teams have from advanced positions and we fall way short. Southampton have Tadic and Mane in great form, though they aren't world class. UTD are all over the place so fair enough although one could argue Di Maria should be playing a bigger part. Liverpool have Sterling, Markovic and Coutinho all capable of changing a game, all quick and very technical. Finally you have Arsenal with Sanchez, Cazorla, Ramsey, Oxlade Chamberlain. Simply put we don't stand up to anyone in terms of the quality here, because we lack the pace and directness to make the most of the space we create.

3 - Solid midfield base - Bentaleb and Mason are hard workers and are good on the ball. If anything I feel we just lack the extra man at times. Southampton have Wanyama and Schneiderlin who are stronger and more powerful, but play more in a 3 these days. UTD have Blind in there alone and he gets overrun. Arsenal have Coquelin in the same position. Liverpool are the only ones for me who have this area locked up, with Hendersen and Gerrard/Lucas providing a solid screen & creativity.

4 - Defensive solidity - Clean sheets. Count them. We have so few whilst Liverpool, Arsenal and Southampton have made a very good habit of keeping them. Sakho and Skrtel are a dozy pair, but in the current 3 they look comfortable. UTD's back three on the other hand look all over the place, whilst we seem to ship goals all the time.

5 - A world class keeper - De-Gea and Lloris are in a class of their own here, yet play for teams who aren't keeping the ball out of the net.

Compare Emirates Marketing Project and Chelsea and you will see two teams who have it all. Each one of the chasing pack has a deficiency in one of the 5 area's and I would argue that we suffer in 2-3 of them whereas our competition have fewer area's of weakness.

Now we are a work in progress and we have made huge steps in the right direction. That said we are behind those teams and given another window, we may fall further off re: first team quality.
 
Cochise said:
Yes - Lloris, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Kane
With time - Bentaleb, Dier
Close - Walker, Chadli
Squad Level - Mason, Rose, Lamela, Soldado, Stambouli, Davies, Fazio, Chiriches, Townsend, Dembele, Vorm
No - Paulinho, Kaboul, Capoue, Ade

I rate Vertonghen and I think this season he has played like a top 4 player.
Bentaleb and Dier are both young and very good for their age. Given time, they have the ability to get there, but need to be nurtured.
Walker would be good enough in a top 4 side, but for me he makes individual mistakes too often to be called a top four player. Chadli has the stats this season to say he is close. He won't single handedly carry a team, but he has been clinical in front of goal this season (though not of late).
That "squad level" list needs trimming, although the players listed in the "no" group need shedding first.

If we want to step up next season, we need to get in a top class midfielder and one more winger/wide striker who will instantly up our game. I'd be prepared to leave Rose and Davies be for at least another year and then re-assess. ATM I don't think either of them look like the real deal, but both have their merits.
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I think those 6 are key. They are players we have bought, the first 2 at huge expense, yet they are only 'squad' players, at least thus far (though it could change). They are either not good enough, or the manager(s) haven't been able to get the best out of them (yet). Either way, you are wanting/neeeding those to be in the 3 categories above which they are.
 
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LLORIS - yes, he's one of the top five goalkeepers in the world

WALKER - yes, I'm not his biggest fan but there aren't a gluttony of top full backs in the world right now. He's good enough
FAZIO - no. He's generally very solid for 75 minutes of a match, but makes at least one costly error per game. Could get away with it vs some teams
VERTONGHEN - yes; wildly overrated, awful attitude but there aren't many elite defenders around, he's capable of playing for us in Europe
ROSE - no, any winger of reasonable ability and clever movement gets the better of him every time. Not a bad squad player

MASON - no. I love him and his work ethic but he doesn't have the quality to play regularly at the top level. Happy for him to be 4th/5th choice midfielder
BENTALEB - no, not at the moment. In a few years I think so, but his concentration lets him down massively at times. Understandable for a youngster

LAMELA - yes. This is weird cos I think he'd do well in the Champions League like he does in Europa cos it's slower. Just not built for Premier League football
DEMBELE - no. He arguably has the ability, but he doesn't have the temperament or consistency needed at that level
ERIKSEN - yes, his set pieces alone are a huge weapon in tight European matches. And the low tempo would suit him a great deal in general play

KANE - yes, no doubt about it at the moment. Don't think he'll keep his current run going long-term but has the talent to do well on the big stage

Of our other options Chadli could possibly do a job in a Champions League squad and Soldado a bit like Lamela could benefit from the slower pace. Dier, as with Bentaleb, could be a solid CL player in the future if he develops well.

The criteria I used for my picks were: Would they get in to any of our rivals' (Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Southampton) first elevens?

Lloris would start for all bar United
Vertonghen would start for Arsenal and United, and possibly for the other two although both have an excellent defensive record lately
Walker would start for Arsenal and United
Lamela wouldn't start for any, I outlined why I chose him as a yes
Eriksen would start for Southampton and United
Kane would start for all based on this season's form

I actually think Arsenal and Liverpool have clearly better teams than us and United would too if van Gaal knew how to use them. We're probably on a par with Southampton in terms of individual ability. We are fortunate that Le Arse and Liv messed around in the first half of the season, but I guess unfortunate United spawned lots of undeserved wins (more than us!).

I wasn't enamoured with the appointment of Pochettino but credit to him, he's got us playing much more exciting football against the better teams whereas last season we just lied down and took it from them. The next step is improving our way of playing against lesser outfits cos we shouldn't have had to rely on late goals and opposition red cards as often as we have with the talent at our disposal. The future is bright however.
 
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