How do we get back to creating chances & more importantly scoring goals!

[Gutter Boy]

Well one way we could be getting more goals is if we had bought a striker, as I and many others wanted us to.

We had a real chance of getting Welbeck at one stage for example, and losing out on him is Arsenal's gain at our expense. I don't know if ENIC or the manager is to blame, for us not getting another striker in, but I fear whoever made the decision, (probably a joint one I guess) made a big mistake.

Individuals don't really score goals any more. Systems do.

RvP was the last 'throw money at a CF' solution that worked, but that only stemmed the tide for a year before the system collapsed.

Welbeck really isn't very good. Arsenal's system just makes it easy for him. Just like Chris Kiwomya and Franny Jeffers used to score goals for them.

We should do what we did v goons a bit more; allow teams to shift up against us in possession, win it in midfield and then attack them at speed.

That's a gameplan for Arsenal, Chelsea, City, United and victims away. What about the other 33 league + cup games?

Everyone else will just park the bus against us and make us try and do something with the ball.

It's part of being a big club - you have to learn how to play as favourites (with possession), not underdogs (on the break).

there are no chances up front because the strikers are far too static, a tall ask for the midfielder to pull off an outrageous pass that falls to the striker but evades the defender when both of them are in touching distance.

I think generally our forwards have given up because the service to them has been appalling for years. If every run you made, all that happened was Dembele dribbled down a dead alley, or Paulinho gave the ball away, you'd just stop bothering.

I've seen all of Soldado, Eriksen, Lamela and Chadli play in fluid movement-intensive systems. If Mason/Stambouli/Bentaleb start finding them a bit quicker, I'm sure they'll start making those sort of runs more

 

[ringo]

Does anyone think we would be creating more with Huddlestone in the team?

Yes. Never wanted to sell him. He wouldn't have fitted into Poch's plans any more than AVB's I suspect, though. I hope he gets an England call up -he could be our Pirlo.

 

[ledley's knee injections]

We found that the last time we played on the counter, that we did not have an answer against teams that sat back and there are plenty of teams that are happy to leave WHL with a point.

For what it is worth, I think that we (the fans) need to hold our nerve and get behind the team and manager. Introducing a new system takes time and both the manager and several of the players have spoken of this.

We are never going to move forward as a club if we call for new approaches to be dropped after a handful of games because they are not bearing immediate results.

Good post man - I agree.

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of Spurs fans (both match-going and otherwise) do not have the patience you ask for and we are always going to be facing an uphill battle on this front.

 

[Gutter Boy]

Yes. Never wanted to sell him. He wouldn't have fitted into Poch's plans any more than AVB's I suspect, though. I hope he gets an England call up -he could be our Pirlo.

Huddlestone-Henderson-Barkley would be my England CM trio at the moment, at least till Mason comes into contention anyway.

 

[NWND]

Good post man - I agree.

Unfortunately, it seems a lot of Spurs fans (both match-going and otherwise) do not have the patience you ask for and we are always going to be facing an uphill battle on this front.

There are already Spurs fans i know calling for Pochettino to be sacked. Not joking. These are people who go to games as well. It's depressing. The atmosphere around the club stinks.

 

[milo]

There are already Spurs fans i know calling for Pochettino to be sacked. Not joking. These are people who go to games as well. It's depressing. The atmosphere around the club stinks.

I thought that it would take more than one season of Champions League football for us to start acting as entitled as the regular top four clubs

 

[NWND]

I thought that it would take more than one season of Champions League football for us to start acting as entitled as the regular top four clubs

One of the guys i know just thinks Pochettino was the 'cheap option' by Levy, when he wanted Frank De Boer. I've had arguments with him in that it would probably have cost us a lot less to get De Boer from Ajax, but the guy isn't having it, it's 'what has Pochettino done, nothing!'.

He goes to the game and shouts 'get him out of here and get a proper manager'. And quite a few around him join in. They weren't prepared to give Poch a chance as he wasn't their man. They're not willing to wait and see what he can do, they don't want him and never did.

 

[glorygloryeze]

One of the guys i know just thinks Pochettino was the 'cheap option' by Levy, when he wanted Frank De Boer. I've had arguments with him in that it would probably have cost us a lot less to get De Boer from Ajax, but the guy isn't having it, it's 'what has Pochettino done, nothing!'.

He goes to the game and shouts 'get him out of here and get a proper manager'. And quite a few around him join in. They weren't prepared to give Poch a chance as he wasn't their man. They're not willing to wait and see what he can do, they don't want him and never did.

Wow. That is depressing

 

[K.D.D.D.D.Soc]

Wow. That is depressing

It's like that where I sit, they start moaning as soon as they get in the ground and are just waiting for a mistake or miss to get on a players back. I don't look forward to going to games as they wind me up. We all want the team to do well and are entitled to our opinions but the negativity feeds around the ground and makes a depressing place.

 

[glasgowspur]

redknapp plays an open philosophy that is really exciting to watch, but it leaves the game too open trying to outscore the opponents. it wouldn't have worked if we didn't have bale, modric and to a certain extent vdv - all three considered near world class status during that time. look at qpr where redknapp is trying the same with a different set of players...

avb and poch to me have a very similar approach to the game and we are seeing increasing evidence that both are facing the same problems (somewhere along the way i think avb gave up, thats all been debated, we'll never know) ... we've never replaced our goal scoring machine (bale, not ade even then ) we've never got our midfield engine restarted (modric was nevery injured and provided time for us to build player understanding - which he did so well with bale), and injuries in critical positions ( kaboul, walker, sandro ) when we needed them most.

recreating chances and scoring goals CONSISTENTLY is developing a system of play that can be efficiently and effective deployed by the first eleven and then the 25 men team. it will take time and unfortunately our transfer strategy has not been very effective, we still look unbalanced at times, and even worse, we can't seem to get the first eleven settled for whatever reason (but you can see poch trying).

stability will help us in all areas and i think it will benefit the defence the most. I'm not worried about the midfield pressing to win the ball - I think we do that well enough. creating your own chances is about making clever and well timed runs into space to meet the ball. from the defenders point of view it is just too easy to follow a player who is static, and to read the ball coming to him.

i can see why poch persists with chadli, because he seems to be the only one doing this, and reaping the rewards for his hard work. (also mason, who recenty). thinking back is this what we missed most - it was bale who was busting his gut time and time again for the team? there are no chances up front because the strikers are far too static, a tall ask for the midfielder to pull off an outrageous pass that falls to the striker but evades the defender when both of them are in touching distance.

tldr:
1. time will give stability, stability will help defence. be patient.
2. creating chances in attack means unpredictable runs by players into space not marked by defenders. not sure if we have good enough strikers for this.

Good post, evolution not revolution.
I still think Poch has told levy to write the first 6 month off to give him a proper chance to evaluate the squad and who he can fit into his system. This us why the team is constantly changing. Because it's over three tournaments it just looks like it's a different team for each.
We are starting at the back, find a solid unit and move to midfield. Find the best partnership that can integrate with the defensive unit the move to the forward line.
I expect a strong finish to the season and then tinkering and strengthening in the summer to start our push for CL.

Patience


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[glorygloryeze]

I have to say our attacking play seems to have become more and more mediocre since the Sunderland game. We don't seem to have a defence that can keep hold of a lead anymore either....I think it's going to be a long season from an attacking point of view

 

[Superhudd]

I swear these UEFA training badges are turning coaches into robots and everyone is cancelling everyone else out.

 

[milo]

I swear these UEFA training badges are turning coaches into robots and everyone is cancelling everyone else out.

I don't think that it is the coaching badges. I think that it is a combination of young players being coached by big clubs from a young ages and improved diet, fitness and preparations.

 

[Pirate55]

Sherwood, for all his off field faults, showed that we can still score goals. His record against the lesser clubs was good, it was just against the top boys he was shown to be naive. We scored a lot of goals in the second half of last season.

We need some more gang ho style to beat the West Broms of this world. A single striker at home. Against these sorts of sides is just too negative unless we have a genuine goal threat from all three players behind him. We don't have the supporting cast.

 

[billyiddo]

I dunno about that Pirate - Chadlis scoring for us atm - and both Lamela and Eriksen have shown themselves capable of scoring enough over the course of a season (albeit abroad) the key is obviously to get these two playing to their potential

The idea that one up top is negative just doesn't ring true in modern football - some (most?) of the best teams around play this way.

 

[glasgowspur]

I swear these UEFA training badges are turning coaches into robots and everyone is cancelling everyone else out.

Totally agree, I reckon they are taught how not to lose, never mind how brain numbing it is.


Sitting on my porcelain throne using Fapatalk

 

[Nigeyman]

I dunno about that Pirate - Chadlis scoring for us atm - and both Lamela and Eriksen have shown themselves capable of scoring enough over the course of a season (albeit abroad) the key is obviously to get these two playing to their potential

The idea that one up top is negative just doesn't ring true in modern football - some (most?) of the best teams around play this way.

I agree in what your saying but I would go back to my OP and say we don't have the personnel for the lone striker role, none of our strikers can do it! look at Demba Ba last night, ok he cant finish but his hold up/link up play was charmont! Thats how you play the lone striker role.

None of Kane, Soldado, Ade are up to the job for the lone role, the longer we persist with one striker the longer we will struggle to create and score imo!

I am not anti lone striker, but it does not suit us at this moment in time.

 

[billyiddo]

Well both Ade and Soldado have played the lone striker role well before, with us and Valencia respectively - so to me that just extends the getting our players to play to their potential/ability from the previous post.

Not playing well currently doesn't equal can not play well.

 

[Nigeyman]

Well both Ade and Soldado have played the lone striker role well before, with us and Valencia respectively - so to me that just extends the getting our players to play to their potential/ability from the previous post.

Not playing well currently doesn't equal can not play well.

How many times over the last two seasons have we played really well playing with one lone striker? either Ade or Soldado. by playing well I mean creating many chances and scoring goals not having 65% possesion.

how many times have we gubbed teams? ran up scores like pool or other lot?

Why do we keep persisting with something that hasnt/wont work! why dont we just admit our strikers would be more affective playing with a strike partner and be done with it, if we wanted to play with a lone striker then yes we should have bought Demba bloody Ba even if it meant Chelsea taking the **** slightly with the transfer fee!

if you can give me five games where we have played 1 up top and looked brilliant I will be amazed! Norwich (h) last year maybe, I cant think of many others where we have been so dominant, created loads of chances and scored goals.

 

[billyiddo]

We've played a handful of league games this season and on this you've come to the conclusion the tactics don't work? 4231 isn't a tactic it's a formation and AVB Sherwood and Poch will all have different tactics to go along with it. So it not working for AVB doesn't mean it won't work for us now - you only have to look at the difference in types of permances under the two managers we had last season to see that, surely?