Have we fulfilled our potential?

[billyiddo]

not true - with a run of good work and a bit of luck thrown in it's possible, though not a realistic target admittedly. Liverpool came close this season and potentially in 11/12 we could possibly have run it close had Capello not been sacked from the England job - these two recent examples have given me a lot of encouragement. 5 years or so a go i think it looked a lot less possible as the 4 at the top looked set in stone, now SAF has gone, Liverpool have spent a few years wobbling, Chelsea too and soon enough Wenger will retire/move on - so things are not as predictable as they once were.

 

[Lilywhite]

Taking into account quintessential factors 6th is made for us. We're miles below the top five and miles above the rest if you judge it by the below criteria:-

- Size:- I've always seen us below Man United, Liverpool & l'Ar-se in this aspect. They're the three traditional bigguns in the country and we're in the category below, along with Everton, Villa and Chelski. Then I'd have Leeds, City, Forest and perhaps Saudi Sportswashing Machine/Sunderland.

- Recent success:- using the Premier League era as a cutoff, again we're in a strong position. United are well ahead of others in that period with 13 titles, a couple European Cups and other trophies, then Arsenal/Chelsea/Liverpool with numerous titles or CL's between them aswell as domestic success. City in the last four years have won the PL, an FA Cup and a League Cup along with top 2 and 3 finishes so rank above us too. Ourselves, Everton and Saudi Sportswashing Machine have spent a few years each pushing the top 4 and sometimes getting in there, and other times in midtable/relegation fights. However we're ahead of them cos we have finished in higher positions more recently and have two League Cups to our name since either of them won a medal of any kind.

- Fanbase:- LFC & MUFC have the most then Ar-se, unfortunately in recent years Chelsea have had an influx due to their success and more recently City seem to have benefited too. Now nationwide I doubt there's a huge difference in fanbase between ourselves, Everton, Villa and Saudi Sportswashing Machine, though I'd presume we're ahead of them all and importantly we have more than them around the world IMO.

- Money:- this is becoming a more and more important factor to judge potential by. Purely in terms of revenue we're a world away from the top five but on the other hand we make much more cash than the best of the rest. This is reflected in wages, where recent figures show we are 6th.

They are the main things I look at when determining if a team is achieving its potential. We have overachieved in recent years finishing 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th. This season we will finish 6th which is ideologically where we should be. BUT

We have undoubtedly failed to take advantage in recent years of other teams failures. From 2000 it was Man Utd, Arsenal & Liverpool as the top three with Leeds flirting with it before bankruptcy, then in 2003 Chelsea become uber rich and go straight into that pack. From then until 2010 it was an exclusive party and very rarely did anyone look like breaking in UNTIL we did so to our credit. Liverpool then crashed and nearly burned with their ownership issues while our blossoming and City's money splurges threatened the rest. In recent years it hasn't been settled with us, then City, now Liverpool back in there with United falling out. Unfortunately I cant help but feel we missed the chance to cash in on our position, especially in 2011 and 2012. We lost our best players continuously, we failed to buy players when in great positions (2012 Jan) and now we've paid the price having spunked 100m up the wall. I'd be surprised if the current top 5 (Utd in for Everton) isn't a closed party for several years now. Everton won't keep this up and we will have to perform miracles to get back in there as those clubs will strengthen and we will probably need to stand still til the stadium is opened up without overspending.

So in essence we surpassed our potential, should have got to the stage where our potential increased but instead are now back at square 1 and in 6th which I feel is our current potential.

 

[SpurMeUp]

Another way of putting the original question: have we lived up to our hype?

Enjoyment or fulfilment is relative to expectation. So expecting us to fight relegation and finishing where we have, we would be chuffed. When we've had the promise of CL and a glimmer that we could challenge the top teams, if that was your expectation, then of course you're disappointed. The potential is the bit that f*cks you up. That is the part that lets you believe that we can. We have the potential to challenge for the title. It doesn't really mean anything. Its largely hype, and not based on realities.

But I'm enjoying the roller coaster. So long as we get a good coaching team in, I'll start believing again! Ultimately you have to be a bit of a sucker for punishment with football, and its the disappointment and strong feelings that loss creates, that keeps you coming back for more - making the highs that much better.

 

[SpurMeUp]

With FFP, chel$ea and city shouldn't be able to blow us away any more, and the local scum and our model should close the gap to the doped clubs. Of course they are still subsidised but won't be to the same extent. chel$ea were clever and bought up lots of youth latent that they can now sell off to subsidise themselves short term. Longer term...we'll see. This summer will be interesting. Rather than buy 3, 4, 5 world class starts the wealthy clubs maybe only buying one or two elite players.

 

[Raziel]

they are not though, no united fan is gonna think "**** it, Emirates Marketing Project is cheaper, i'll go there from now on"

Really? define fan? How many people buy United/Pool/Barca/Real/Brazil kits and merchandise that you would define as "fans"

It's the bandwagon people who these clubs are "buying", it's taking customers from a competitor by providing a higher quality product at less than cost price, classic anti-competitive behavior

And even in Manchester, do you think the next set of young fans will be as likely to be United as vs. City now, compared to 7 years ago?

 

[Raziel]

With FFP, chel$ea and city shouldn't be able to blow us away any more, and the local scum and our model should close the gap to the doped clubs. Of course they are still subsidised but won't be to the same extent. chel$ea were clever and bought up lots of youth latent that they can now sell off to subsidise themselves short term. Longer term...we'll see. This summer will be interesting. Rather than buy 3, 4, 5 world class starts the wealthy clubs maybe only buying one or two elite players.

I have zero faith in FPP to produce any significant change.

 

[sc25]

Trying to reconcile how we are where we should be - 6th...and yet there is a 500 page thread of hatred and criticism of a (clueless) rookie manager thrown in mid season who - even if we won the league - I want him out!

Obviously 6th is not where we WANT to be. But how we get Top 4, if its even attainable in our structure, is another story/discussion...

 

[metalgear]

we can't compare to the regular CL contenders.
we should be comparing ourselves with everton who is spending less but achieving more in terms of value.

 

[camspur]

we can't compare to the regular CL contenders.
we should be comparing ourselves with everton who is spending less but achieving more in terms of value.

They're achieving on the backs of three players from Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and Barcelona. I'm sure if we had those three we would've finished higher than 6th.

 

[Hully]

We've got nowhere close to the potential of our current squad. This has been the most disappointing season I can remember.
I hope we can attract a manager who can get the maximum out of the players we've invested in, but I don't hold my breath.

 

[metalgear]

They're achieving on the backs of three players from Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and Barcelona. I'm sure if we had those three we would've finished higher than 6th.

That's some thing that we could have done too , instead of splurging everything at a go across 7 players. The comparison is still relevant.

 

[AdamB]

They're achieving on the backs of three players from Chelsea, Emirates Marketing Project and Barcelona. I'm sure if we had those three we would've finished higher than 6th.

Anyone can loan players. The risk for them is that it's not sustainable long term as there's not a huge supply of decent loanees available each year. So then they have to buy and the question is whether they have to money to do so

 

[AdamB]

they are, but they didn't used to be, there is no reason we wouldn't be at that level with the right financial backing

You can't hark back to what used to be the case. What about 80 years ago were Burnley were good or 120 odd year when Old Etonians were a top team? In today's world, we would expect to finish between 4th and 7th with the occasional great year when we had a special manager and finished higher and then the odd duff year. Ourselves, ****, Liverpool and Everton should, all else being equal, be broadly in the same place and have similar expectations. Man U, Man C and cheatski have far deeper pockets so until that changes with the next oligarch ploughing money into someone, those three should expect to finish top three

 

[Baleforce]

I'm not harking back, I'm arguing that we should join the the money clubs