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Harry Winks

DubSpur said:
Winks missed a lot of games in the last season and a half under Poch. He was always carrying injuries and never looked comfortable.

For all that Jose said about wanting him and the team in general to play the ball forward that wasn't what happened. Kane was about the only one that seemed to play the forward at a high rate. Jose was all about safety first. In Contes few weeks here we've seen all the team looking to play the ball forward more. On the evidence that the team as a whole played safety first under Jose and Nuno and the team as a whole are playing more progressive passes under Conte, I'd go with it's a lot down to the manager and not "the penny finally dropping" with Winks.
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You're correct about his injuries under Poch but still that's when he's cautious play started. And regarding Jose who I was no fan of, he asked Winks to play forward he didn't do it and so he wasn't selected.

With Conte he wants the forward play and he coaches the shape and pattern to create that. Mourinho as I said at the time doesn't coach attacking play, he leaves that to the freedom of the players he mainly focuses on defensive shape. So for a player like Winks there was no system or familiarity to fall back into regarding passes. But the request was there and clear. Conte has made the same demand and makes it an easier thing to follow but still the penny has dropped because he is playing the ball forward when under Poch and Jose there were plenty of opportunities to do so and he would hesitate, pause and play it sideways or backwards.
 
Something I'd add for to counter the "Winks is Sh*t" phalanx, is that for a while a number of our squad players have only ever featured in the team when they have been part of a UEFA game or a league cup game, and there's been 9 or 10 changes. I've shouted and shouted about this, but it bears repeating. If the only football you are getting is alongside a collection of equally ring rusty players who are thrown together to play some eastern European team while the "first team" are chilling at home, it is hardly surprising if you don't produce a stellar performance. That would apply to Winks, Alli, Doherty, Rodon, even Bergwyin - all players who we know have performed in the past, but now are lacking. The only player I can honestly say I think is genuinely out of his depth of that lot is Doherty, the others have all got ability and if they were playing alongside the first eleven each week you would see this.
 
Bishop said:
You're correct about his injuries under Poch but still that's when he's cautious play started. And regarding Jose who I was no fan of, he asked Winks to play forward he didn't do it and so he wasn't selected.

With Conte he wants the forward play and he coaches the shape and pattern to create that. Mourinho as I said at the time doesn't coach attacking play, he leaves that to the freedom of the players he mainly focuses on defensive shape. So for a player like Winks there was no system or familiarity to fall back into regarding passes. But the request was there and clear. Conte has made the same demand and makes it an easier thing to follow but still the penny has dropped because he is playing the ball forward when under Poch and Jose there were plenty of opportunities to do so and he would hesitate, pause and play it sideways or backwards.
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The request was there but again, one manager provides the conditions to actually do it, the other doesn't and stifiles the adventure in players. It's nothing to do with the penny dropping.
Guess we'll just have to agree to disagree
 
braineclipse said:
One of the real positives yesterday.

Lost the ball clumsily early on, but think there was a lack of options. Brave on the ball, tried to play, didn't just boot it.

Our best player in the second half imo. So close to getting an assist, many very useful passes.
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He lost it twice in very dangerous positions as I recall - once in each half. Both times, he was looking for a positive pass rather than just laying it off easily so you can see he's clearly under instruction from Conte. He can't afford to be that sloppy though, other teams will punish him. I'd also question his positioning on the goal.

That said, he was one of our better players if not our best player yesterday. He deserves a run in the team but let's not be blinded, he still has a lot he can improve upon.
 
DeanoAustin said:
He lost it twice in very dangerous positions as I recall - once in each half. Both times, he was looking for a positive pass rather than just laying it off easily so you can see he's clearly under instruction from Conte. He can't afford to be that sloppy though, other teams will punish him. I'd also question his positioning on the goal.

That said, he was one of our better players if not our best player yesterday. He deserves a run in the team but let's not be blinded, he still has a lot he can improve upon.
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He can't afford to be sloppy. And we can't afford to not give our central midfielders options when they're on the ball in those situations. Tiredness may have played a part mind.

If he's going to play we should accept that there will be some mistakes like that, the last thing we want is Winks playing without risk.
 
AdamB said:
Playing the ball forward - what he's not done over his career. I also think Skippy has been playing the ball forward, rather than sideways, under Conte too
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Yes and no for me. He's always had that ability, but he needs options to pass to and a manager that wants him to play with risk. When we were good and he was fit under Pochettino that was the case.

Ask him to cover a lot of space, never give away possession and watch the ball fly over his head and he looks average at best.
 
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