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Harry Redknapp: The Aftermath

Would you keep Arry after the Season?

  • Yes - He's done well and should be given at least one more season to consolidate our team

    Votes: 25 53.2%
  • No - he's peaked and would hold us back.

    Votes: 22 46.8%

  • Total voters
    47
I would certainly enjoy a cup and fourth. At the same time I am quite capable of ruing the missed opportunity.

Okay, well each to their own then. I wouldn't bother worrying about the 'what if's' - complete waste of time; I'd rather spend it enjoying what I have, and gloating to my hearts content, as it's MUCH more than others around us will finish the season with.
 
Okay, well each to their own then. I wouldn't bother worrying about the 'what if's' - complete waste of time; I'd rather spend it enjoying what I have, and gloating to my hearts content, as it's MUCH more than others around us will finish the season with.

Fair enough. Ive always had the tendency to look for improvements, which inevitably is where did we go wrong and how can we fix it?

that and enjoying what we do achieve arent mutually exclusive, despite the popular option on here (certainly no slight at yourself) of trying to enforce them as either/or.
 
It seems most people blame our poor run of results on Harry tinkering too much, and changing a winning forumla.

But looking back, the team's been changed regularly throughout.

I'll discount the first two games as half our current team was missing.

Wolves 2-0 > 4-4-2 > despite missing both Lennon and VDV. Niko played on the right, Ade and Defoe up top.
Liverpool 4-0 > 4-4-2 > this time VDV came on for Niko at half-time.
Wigan 2-1 > 4-4-1-1 > Ade up front, VDV behind him, Sandro and Parker in the middle, and Luka on the right.
Arsenal 2-1 > 4-4-2 > Ade and Defoe back up top, VDV on the right.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 2-2 > 4-3-3 > Ade up top, VDV and Bale supporting, Livermore in with Luka and Parker.

> So 5 good results and performances on the trot, despite missing Lennon, playing 3 different systems, and playing Sandro and Parker together against Wigan (where we played some fantastic football).

Blackburn 2-1
QPR 3-1
Fulham 3-1
Villa 2-0

> For 4 games in a row we then played the 'classic' 4-4-1-1 - Lennon back on the right, Ade up top, VDV behind him, Luka and Parker in the middle. We dominated QPR and Villa, but were dominated by Blackburn and Fulham and arguably didn't deserve even draws, let alone wins.

West Brom 3-1 > 4-4-2 > Were missing VDV and Modric, so replaced them with Defoe and Sandro. An excellent away performance despite missing Luka and VDV, and playing Parker and Sandro together in the middle.
Bolton 3-0 > 4-4-2 > Luka came back in for Sandro. Cahill sent off after 15 minutes made this one easy at home against a relegation candidate.
Stoke 1-2 > 4-4-1-1 > Back to the 'classic'. Played well and didn't deserve to lose, but got Foyed.
Sunderland > 1-0. ? > Not sure what we played here. Bale was missing and was replaced with Sandro, suggesting a 4-3-3. Pav came on for Lennon though after 27 minutes. Parker, Sandro and Modric all started.

> Again, a mixture of formations and lineups. Lost the only game in which we played 'the classic', though we were robbed.

Chelsea 1-1 > 4-3-3 > Ade, Bale and VDV supported by Sandro, Parker and Modric. Lennon out again. Pav came on for VDV at half-time.
Norwich 2-0 > 4-3-3- > Same starting lineup as previous game. Dominated Norwich, as Bale began 'the roam'.
Swansea 1-1 > 4-3-3 > Same system again. Swansea were the better team.

> Played the same 4-3-3 system 3 games in a row, with mixed results.

West Brom 1-0 > 4-4-2 > a return to 4-4-2, as VDV shifted out to the right and Defoe came in for Parker. Comfortable win.
Everton 2-0 > 4-4-1-1 > Almost 'the classic' as Lennon was back, but Livermore and Modric started in the middle. As they did against Norwich... We were level with United at this point.

> 2 wins with 2 different formations and lineups.

Wolves 1-1 > 4-4-1-1 > 'The classic' was back as Parker replaced Livermore. Dropped points here, but absolutely dominated Wovles.
Emirates Marketing Project 2-3 > 4-4-1-1 > 'The classic' again. Almost snatched the win, but ultimately got 0 points.

> 1 point out of 6 for 'the classic'.

Wigan 3-1 > ? > Again, not sure exactly what we did here. Niko came in for Lennon, I assume in a 4-4-1-1, but Livermore came on for Rafa after 30 minutes. A 4-3-3 with Niko and Bale supporting Ade? Either way, an easy win.
Liverpool 0-0 > 4-3-3? > Ade up top, Niko and Bale supporting, Livermore in with Luka and Parker in midfield. Quite a cautious, tense game. Not a bad result at the time.
Saudi Sportswashing Machine 5-0 > 4-4-2 > Memories..... Ade and Saha up top, Niko and Bale out wide, Luka and Parker in the middle.

3 good results with 3 different formations and lineups.

Arsenal.... Where the downward spiral arguably began.

What is the point of all this?

There seems to be a perception, admittedly that I also had, that for most of our good run we played consistently 4-4-1-1 with Luka, Parker, Bale, Lennon, VDV and Ade. But actually we only played it four times in a row, then once against Stoke, then twice in a row against Wolves and City. Out of those 7 games we won 4, lost 2, drew 1. And against Blackburn and Fulham we were by far the worse team.

We didn't play 'the classic' 16 times, and had 12 wins, 4 draws and 0 losses.

A lot of the things that we've been complaining about - missing Lennon and / or VDV, switching lineups and systems from game-to-game, playing Sandro and Parker together, playing Livermore and Modric together etc - were constantly happening throughout the season, when we were on such a high.

When results start to go wrong, everyone naturally starts to make arguments for why. And tactics / lineups etc is probably the easiest thing to blame it on. But I think the above shows that our lineups and formations in this dip aren't really very different to those during our great run.

I think the difference is more to do with a tough run of games, a bit of bad luck (our recent performances against City, United, Everton, Stoke and Chelsea were all better than our earlier ones against Swansea, Fulham & Blackburn for example) and then, probably most importantly, the ensuing loss of momentum and confidence.

I'd be surprised if anyone reads all of this, but it's given me time away from two essays so it's served its purpose!

ffs Harry I wasnt being completely serious when I called you a tinker. Suck it up.
 
Maybe the players have got confused after all the press releases harry gives, you know how one week were great and can win a title and the next week we will struggle for top 4.

Can not say i brought into either but one of the many things i dislike about redknapp is his constant talking in the press his need fo attention, i wonder if he was an only child. I have an only child but i make sure he is good with others through regular social interaction. A lot of what is going on at the moment we can directly blame on redknapps parents.

If only they had talked to him and listened to him at the dinner table as he grew up in post war london, if they had told him about listening to toehrs and that other people hold valid points of views at times. Then maybe he would not have this need now to be in the press giving a different account of himself each week.
 
Absolutely. Considering we were 13 points clear at 3rd, and we've taken 6 points out of a possible 24 in our last 8, we've pretty much fudged up.

No, that means what it means. We let a better position slip. It wouldn't mean it was a bad season. Are we really now saying the difference between 3rd and 4th is the difference between good and bad seasons? Christ on a bike! I'm not a major Redknapp fan. I have got some stick for making a mild critic of his performance in the market and saying that we need to do better on this front... but he hasn't lost it altogether as a manager overnight. We've been here before and he has turned it around. It may that this time he lets it slip altogether, in which case, it is time to move on. But I'm not writing him off yet.
 
Then this is why it has gone wrong. The Internet gods made the GG website go down, which was our good luck charm, so then the football gods fcuked us over.

No blame to the owners of this site at all by the way.

:)
 
Fair enough. Ive always had the tendency to look for improvements, which inevitably is where did we go wrong and how can we fix it?

that and enjoying what we do achieve arent mutually exclusive, despite the popular option on here (certainly no slight at yourself) of trying to enforce them as either/or.

Well yes, it's always good to improve. But it's also equally important to take stock of what you've actually achieved, otherwise you're going to be forever downplaying things. As I've outlined, considering we weren't even bracketed within the teams competing for the Champions League at the start of the season, you need to bear finishing 4th in context. Yes we were 3rd once, but the league is 38 games - not 28. Doesn't really matter where you were at one point, it's where you finish at the end that matters.

Bottom line, I reckon the club set the ambitious target of merely finishing 4th; why? Because I don't really think anything beyond that would've been realistic. If we manage to do that, then the seasons' target is achieved. Yes at one point we looked strong for 3rd, but then we had a dip and Arsenal had a resurgence. That's football, and that's to be expected across the course of a season.

You have to remember, a couple of games in we were up brick creek weren't we? Battered and humiliated by both Manchester clubs; on the backfoot and catch-up, right from the off. We regained a LOT of ground in a short space of time, and that's going to take it out of the players. But we had to make that ground up, otherwise we'd have been tinkling around in 7th/8th and going nowhere. All things - ALL THINGS - considered, to finish 4th would still be an excellent end to our season.
 
Any chance of a similar analysis of what Harry does to change things when the starting line-up doesn't look like getting a positive result?
 
What an epic f#cking opening to a thread

=D>

Some real food for thought there...and some real revelations about this tinkering idea. What exactly IS the problem with us? Leaves me even more baffled.
 
What an epic f#cking opening to a thread

=D>

Some real food for thought there...and some real revelations about this tinkering idea. What exactly IS the problem with us? Leaves me even more baffled.

it's gotta be confidence. it's a head game.

many players are of roughly equal ability and fitness from team to team, some others are your stars like Bale or Luka for us, and others are run of the mill PL average... maybe a Livermore or Walker (for argument's sake).

then there are other factors like the officials and home and away... and having a wily old boar of a manager like Ferguson.

then you have perceived 'pressure'... there's absolutely nothing physical that makes players start missing easy passes, or not attempting their normal passes / game. it's in the head. the fear of f*cking it up or the tension in the limbs when trying to make extra sure of the pass, shot or whatever.

beat that, play with freedom and you're more than halfway there... the rest - the talent and ability - takes care of things because it's allowed to flourish unhindered.

or some gonads like that anyway.
 
Finishing 4th in the context of pre season expectations is bang on the money.

Finishing 4th after the position we found ourselves in at the end of Jan is capitulation, its not good.

The thing is, pre season expectations should be re-evaluated as if performances go to the extreme (either way)
 
Jol had us in the exact same position we are now, 4th, going into the game against West Ham.

Were it not for that fudging lasagne we would have had CL football 5 years ago.

I don't see a leap at all.

You don't think us blowing leads in numerous games and conceding late goals in other games cost us at all?
 
Good post.


Well, the fact that we played a 4-4-2 against a 4-4-2 yesterday indicates that confidence and momentum are a problem. Norwich played the same system as we did and we were at home, we have the better players, in our earlier confidence filled run of form, we'd have won. We even had the luck that we had in that run of form. I remember we got penalties, we had a ton of decisions for us and hardly anything against us. (Walker not getting done for handball at Fulham is an example of that, as was VDV's goal being allowed to stand against Arsenal.)

A lot of the things that we've been complaining about - missing Lennon and / or VDV, switching lineups and systems from game-to-game, playing Sandro and Parker together, playing Livermore and Modric together etc - were constantly happening throughout the season, when we were on such a high.

It doesn't help to be missing Lennon, but I'm fairly sure everyone remembered that happened earlier in the season. Same with VDV being missing from time to time. (His hamstrings kept going.) Switching lineups and systems did happen from time to time, I remember us complaining even when we were winning in OMTs when Modric was playing on the wings and then got moved to the center for 15 minutes and we played much better.

But you can look at the match against Saudi Sportswashing Machine at WHL and say "Saudi Sportswashing Machine have better players than Norwich, but we played well and if we'd have played that well yesterday we could have won 5-0 against Norwich.... Or if we'd have played Saudi Sportswashing Machine yesterday, we might have lost. The atmosphere of that game was totally different, as was each player's form and our confidence. It was handy for us that Tiote was missing for Saudi Sportswashing Machine, but we won that because of our players, not our tactics. If we'd have been playing really well yesterday, we could have taken advantage of Norwich's kamikaze first 15 minutes, we could have been 2-0 up before they even had a noteworthy attack and if we had been playing at that level, we'd have been fine.

King's awesome run ended at Emirates Marketing Project when he gave away that penalty, before that, whenever his name was on the team sheet, we all -knew- we weren't going to lose. Maybe it was the same for the players.


The reason I am disappointed in Harry's tactics is because he doesn't seem to learn. The Arsenal match when the wheels came off was 4-4-2... The WHL match when we got fudged in the ass in midfield was 4-4-2, at their place, he signed us up to get fudged in the ass even more.... Now, our spectacular confidence and a bit of luck with Bale's penalty got us 2-0 up... Harry knew we were very close to getting fudged, he wanted us to get to half time so he could say something to the players, but we conceded a couple of times before then.

We then had a Manchester United game, in which Harry's formation actually worked. Livermore in for Parker alongside Modric and Sandro, we dominated the game even though we lost.

Everton, in the first half, he played people all over the place and we were brick. In the second half he put players where they should play and we completely dominated them but didn't get a goal to even draw. Harry's tactics let us down there.

We played Stoke and Chelsea, then we had a good win against Swansea.

But then away at Sunderland he played the most defensive formation/lineup he could realistically have lined up with. This was a tactical disaster. It was like he hadn't done his homework, everyone knew what Sunderland's game plan would be.

So after that, he goes to the other extreme and plays one of the most attacking lineups he could realistically have put out. (Aside from Kranj for Livermore or something.) We were still playing 4-4-2, Livermore is still a DM, so if we'd have played well and taken advantage of Norwich playing like they had nothing to lose, we could have scored a ton of goals in a very open game and come away with a clean sheet after Norwich heads went down after 15 minutes or so.

But when Norwich pressed us and exposed the weaknesses we've always had in that formation, we ended up losing. There was a moment in that game, a golden moment in which we showed exactly what could have happened if all our players were in form... We were getting pressed near our left corner flag, we played one and two touch passes all the way through their team and transformed being pressed by our corner flag into an attack. Much of the time, we hoofed it, but that was one shining moment in the match that showed how good our players can be.


The thing is, everyone in that OMT saw that our defence didn't have its usual standard of protection and our defence did not have a good day at all. So when their second goal came from Livermore not closing a long range shot down, it highlighted the stuff we all saw. When BAE stopped and looked for about 5 seconds for someone to pass to and had to go long, it highlighted the lack of an extra body in midfield to help out. The lack of a link between attack and the midfield is also in the OMT and VDV in his usual position helps us gain superior numbers in the middle of midfield and is the link between attack and the midfield.

Kaboul getting injured took one sub away from Harry, so with just two he couldn't change much. Saha was awful and according to Harry "sort of did his groin", which might mean "was brick, but I don't want to embarrass the lad", he didn't want to use his last sub before the second half and risk finishing with 10 men, so his starting line up fudged him up that match.

Harry coming out after the game and saying "people keep telling me to play 4-4-2 but we were too open" is going to enrage some people, because some people could have told him that his starting lineup would be open before the match. Some people know how Norwich play and know what to expect. But after Sunderland and his 3 attacking players idea didn't break down a team that were always going to park the bus, it was awful to hear Parker and Harry say after the game that they expected Sunderland to attack more.

The fact that he hasn't sat down with his players and watched Sunderland vs Emirates Marketing Project to give them some idea of what to expect is a bit disappointing. Earlier in the season, he might have sent his teams out against the unknown, but the players were good enough to save him, now they need some help.


-------

The managerless match at Anfield was 4-5-1, 10 of our players defended and Ade sat up on his own until he was subbed off for Saha, who sat up the field on his own.

The formation at Sunderland was 4-5-1, not 4-3-3... When we play in a 4-4-1-1, Bale is exactly how forward he is in that 4-5-1 and VDV plays on the right wing in the same position he plays in a 4-4-2 when stuck on the right wing.
 
Harry Redknapp lost the team when he said he wanted the England job, "who wouldn't". Our form went downhill from that point on. He realised this and made a comment after 1 or 2 weeks saying that he wouldnt definitely take the England job, but nobody believed him. How can the players be motivated by a manager that would rather be somewhere else?

Want proof? Well look at this:

Tottenham Hotspur Results
April 2012

Tottenham 1-2 Norwich L


Sunderland 0-0 Tottenham D


Tottenham 3-1 Swansea W

March 2012

Tottenham 3-1 Bolton W

Chelsea 0-0 Tottenham D

Tottenham 1-1 Stoke D

Tottenham 1-1 Bolton D

Everton 1-0 Tottenham L

Tottenham 3-1 Stevenage W

Tottenham 1-3 Man Utd L


February 2012
Arsenal 5-2 Tottenham L
Sun 26 Feb
Stevenage 0-0 Tottenham D
Sun 19 Feb
Tottenham 5-0 Saudi Sportswashing Machine W
Sat 11 Feb
Liverpool 0-0 Tottenham D CAPELLO RESIGNS
Mon 6 Feb
January 2012
Tottenham 3-1 Wigan W
Watford 0-1 Tottenham W
Emirates Marketing Project 3-2 Tottenham L
Tottenham 1-1 Wolves D
Tottenham 2-0 Everton W
Tottenham 3-0 Cheltenham W
Tottenham 1-0 West Brom W
 
What this probably shows is that if we play 2 games identically except in one game our shot goes in off the post and their shot is disallowed for offside... and in the other game the opposite happens...

We analyse game 1 and say why we won - we were solid in the middle, player X did well, great finish from player Y blah blah

We analyse game 2 and say why we lost - we weren't creative enough in the middle, player Z was poor, player Y didn't score as usual blah blah





Whereas the difference is a linesman's whim and the width of a post
 
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