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Halal Meat

scaramanga said:
Actually, I do need to put a caveat in there - foie gras. ****ing love the stuff.
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****ing evil the way they make it... Could never bring myself to eat it because of that. I also don't think meat being cheaper is a good reason to keep animals in horrific conditions and enforce tortured lives either.

If it is just because we can and the law.. Then that is very dangerous ground...
 
Also on the issue of Halal meat, none of the meat labelled Halal in the supermarkets is actually Halal (don't know enough about Kosher and the religious rules on this). Because making meat Halal is not just about how the animal is slaughtered but (and more importantly for me) how it is raised and lives... Those eating mass produced Halal meat are not actually eating Halal meat at all, because to do so would make it one of the most expensive meats on the market which it clearly and unfortunately is not.
 
DTA said:
****ing evil the way they make it... Could never bring myself to eat it because of that.
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But it's soooooo tasty. Seriously, try it - you'll be hooked.

DTA said:
I also don't think meat being cheaper is a good reason to keep animals in horrific conditions and enforce tortured lives either.

If it is just because we can and the law.. Then that is very dangerous ground...
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It's not just because we can, it's because cheaper is better (except when I'm selling something). IT'S ONLY FOOD! Just eat it, enjoy it and stop worrying.
 
It may 'only be food', but to many, many people it is very important what they put in their bodies, be it for spiritual, ethical, dietary or all of the above reasons. Doesn't make it a stressful experience and personally, the thought of ingesting anything that has lived/died in a horrific manner does not appeal to me in the slightest. Yet I can eat very cheaply and I love my food :-k

Having compassion for other living beings is a good thing. End of.
 
AuroRaman said:
Having compassion for other living beings is a good thing. End of.
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The rest of your post is obviously opinion so there's not much to agree or disagree with.

This statement I will absolutely disagree with. Compassion for other living beings is often inconvenient and an obstacle to both decision making and getting through life efficiently.
 
scaramanga said:
The rest of your post is obviously opinion so there's not much to agree or disagree with.

This statement I will absolutely disagree with. Compassion for other living beings is often inconvenient and an obstacle to both decision making and getting through life efficiently.
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It works for me. I am happy and full of love. Doesn't mean I'm a soft touch by any means. I have a quite frankly pretty awesome life which includes devoting a lot to others' needs and promoting animal liberation. I surround myself with people of the same ilk, and they are all fully functioning, successful people.

And for that reason I disagree with your disagreement ;)
 
AuroRaman said:
It works for me. I am happy and full of love. Doesn't mean I'm a soft touch by any means. I have a quite frankly pretty awesome life which includes devoting a lot to others' needs and promoting animal liberation . I surround myself with people of the same ilk, and they are all fully functioning, successful people.

And for that reason I disagree with your disagreement ;)
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See? An entirely wasteful use of one's time ;)
 
Spursman said:
You will know when its Kosher meat. Its about 3 times the price!
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Interesting, does that mean that the laws in terms of how to keep an animal are followed by kosher farmers? (What are the rules?)

Frankly I think it's horrible that halal meat producers (to my knowledge) choose to ignore the way a Animals are to be raised and think that saying a prayer at the end makes the meat ethically and religiously 'right'

If Kosher meat means that animals are treated 'right' I seriously would only buy kosher and that is coming from a Muslim (although possibly One that would not be accepted by many Muslims as.... Muslim)
 
scaramanga said:
But it's soooooo tasty. Seriously, try it - you'll be hooked.



It's not just because we can, it's because cheaper is better (except when I'm selling something). IT'S ONLY FOOD! Just eat it, enjoy it and stop worrying.
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It's not just food though is it? It's a living breathing being with feelings, I don't agree with PETA and their mission to turn the world vegan (although I have respect for vegans, and the sacrifices they make for their ethical choice), but because we can doesn't mean should see animals as just a commodity that should exploited (read tortured).

If so why don't we do the same with people, not eat them obviously but exploit them fully without regard for their well being, forget health and safety, living wage, NHS.... No let's go further... forget equal opportunities, sexism, child protection.... Because what we are talking about really is survival of the fittest (or smartest)
 
DTA said:
It's not just food though is it? It's a living breathing being with feelings, I don't agree with PETA and their mission to turn the world vegan (although I have respect for vegans, and the sacrifices they make for their ethical choice), but because we can doesn't mean should see animals as just a commodity that should exploited (read tortured).
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I don't think torture is the right word - that suggests some kind of intent. I'm obviously not advocating intentionally hurting animals (which don't have feelings, just instincts and reactions). I'm suggesting that if a different method of treatment will unduly increase the price then best not bother. We've improved the methods of getting food into plates over hundreds of years to make it faster, cheaper and more efficient - let's not reverse all those advances because we get a little squeamish.

DTA said:
If so why don't we do the same with people, not eat them obviously but exploit them fully without regard for their well being, forget health and safety, living wage, NHS.... No let's go further... forget equal opportunities, sexism, child protection.... Because what we are talking about really is survival of the fittest (or smartest)
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I think you're confusing two entirely different issues here.

Survival of the smartest would mean there was no need for equal opportunities legislation and there would be no sexism - by its very definition survival of the smartest if ignorant of race, sex, etc.

And given half a chance I would be rid of h&s legislation, the minimum wage and the NHS - society would be far better off without them.
 
DTA said:
It's not just food though is it? It's a living breathing being with feelings, I don't agree with PETA and their mission to turn the world vegan (although I have respect for vegans, and the sacrifices they make for their ethical choice), but because we can doesn't mean should see animals as just a commodity that should exploited (read tortured).
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You ever swatted a fly? Ever caught a fish? Stepped on an ant? Kicked a cat in the sponge?
 
scaramanga said:
I don't think torture is the right word - that suggests some kind of intent. I'm obviously not advocating intentionally hurting animals (which don't have feelings, just instincts and reactions). I'm suggesting that if a different method of treatment will unduly increase the price then best not bother. We've improved the methods of getting food into plates over hundreds of years to make it faster, cheaper and more efficient - let's not reverse all those advances because we get a little squeamish.



I think you're confusing two entirely different issues here.

Survival of the smartest would mean there was no need for equal opportunities legislation and there would be no sexism - by its very definition survival of the smartest if ignorant of race, sex, etc.

And given half a chance I would be rid of h&s legislation, the minimum wage and the NHS - society would be far better off without them.
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Animals do have feelings Scara, that is a pretty well established fact. They feel fear, have best friends, mourn loss, have feelings of happiness, sadness or even depression, to what degree they do is the only thing up for debate... And something that I don't think we will ever know.

Let me ask a question ( just go along with me on this) if aliens existed and they came to earth and their intelligence was about equivalent to our vs cows... Would it be ok for them to eat us? Keep us in horrific conditions, before they do?
 
DTA said:
Animals do have feelings Scara, that is a pretty well established fact. They feel fear, have best friends, mourn loss, have feelings of happiness, sadness or even depression, to what degree they do is the only thing up for debate... And something that I don't think we will ever know.
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That's a pretty sweeping statement and I'm not sure it's an accurate one.
Do cod have best friends? Do flies get depressed? Or do we just assign agency to mammals? Even then, is it just the fluffy ones that we can relate to because they're cuter?

As we're being all moralistic, isn't it a moral requirement to kill ducks? They gangrape after all. And gangrape's bad right? What about animals that steal or eat other animals in a manner that makes them suffer? If we're assigning human traits to animals shouldn't we be holding them to the same standards we hold ourselves to? I think we might need to start building some monkey prisons.....

DTA said:
Let me ask a question ( just go along with me on this) if aliens existed and they came to earth and their intelligence was about equivalent to our vs cows... Would it be ok for them to eat us? Keep us in horrific conditions, before they do?
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My opinion on it would be irrelevant and pointless because I would be food.

If you're asking me from the alien perspective then yes, assuming humans tasted good, eating them would be fine. If keeping them in what you believe to be horrific conditions (I believe we already do that, it's called living up North) makes is cheaper/simpler/better then that's fine too.
 
scaramanga said:
That's a pretty sweeping statement and I'm not sure it's an accurate one.
Do cod have best friends? Do flies get depressed? Or do we just assign agency to mammals? Even then, is it just the fluffy ones that we can relate to because they're cuter?

As we're being all moralistic, isn't it a moral requirement to kill ducks? They gangrape after all. And gangrape's bad right? What about animals that steal or eat other animals in a manner that makes them suffer? If we're assigning human traits to animals shouldn't we be holding them to the same standards we hold ourselves to? I think we might need to start building some monkey prisons.....



My opinion on it would be irrelevant and pointless because I would be food.

If you're asking me from the alien perspective then yes, assuming humans tasted good, eating them would be fine. If keeping them in what you believe to be horrific conditions (I believe we already do that, it's called living up North) makes is cheaper/simpler/better then that's fine too.
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Ok yes a sweeping statement in terms of animals, for clarity... all these traits have been proven in dogs, elephants, cows and pigs, probably others as well but I have not read about that.

In terms judging animals in terms of our moralistic values... It's a good point and I guess I can't have it both ways otherwise that would be hypocritical .... What this means.... I will get back to you ;)

Fair play about the aliens


The aliens... Well yeah fair enough at least that is consistent.
 
Scara, you're very quick to pass off other peoples posts as opinions and rightly judge them as such. But you're posts reek of, 'this is fact'. It's very unfair to judge other posters' opinions and in some cases, belittle them, then present your posts as factual evidence of why everyone else is wrong.

To send out a blasé statement that all animals don't have feelings as if it is truth is incredibly ignorant in my opinion. If you choose to debate this, perhaps do a very quick google/YouTube search on why your opinion is factually/scientifically false before you reply.

I do understand that posts over the internets can be misconstrued so apologies if I have misunderstood the crux of some of your statements.
 
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