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Guglielmo Vicario

NYSpur said:
This thread reinforces what an unforgiving position goalkeeper is. Sullivan (I believe he won Spurs player of the year one time) and Gomes had periods of brilliance. But both of them lost confidence and consistency. If you saw them in the latter periods you would label them hopeless, but in the former, brilliant.

Why it is hard to view anyone as better than Jennings is that he was so consistently top drawer. I remember the Brazilian coach at the World Cup highlighting how good he was then, and he was 41! A quick look brought up this article at the time https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-06-12-sp-10076-story.html

As to Vicario, in the modern era his weaknesses (kicking, strength in the 6 yard area) were exposed. And then you have the mistake against Fulham! All goalkeepers make mistakes, even the great Jennings, but that was embarrassing.
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From that link (written in 1986)...

"Twenty-two years ago, in the spring of 1964, two players made their debuts for Northern Ireland’s national team in a match against Wales. One was Patrick Anthony Jennings, and the other was George Best."

:oops:
 
NYSpur said:
This thread reinforces what an unforgiving position goalkeeper is. Sullivan (I believe he won Spurs player of the year one time) and Gomes had periods of brilliance. But both of them lost confidence and consistency. If you saw them in the latter periods you would label them hopeless, but in the former, brilliant.

Why it is hard to view anyone as better than Jennings is that he was so consistently top drawer. I remember the Brazilian coach at the World Cup highlighting how good he was then, and he was 41! A quick look brought up this article at the time https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-06-12-sp-10076-story.html

As to Vicario, in the modern era his weaknesses (kicking, strength in the 6 yard area) were exposed. And then you have the mistake against Fulham! All goalkeepers make mistakes, even the great Jennings, but that was embarrassing.
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IMG_4102.jpeg
 
DubSpur said:
He's coming up to 30 now and will not get rid of the huge flaws in his game. Kinsky is only 23 and quickly improving. There's not much in the difference as shot stoppers, but Kinsky is already miles ahead on crosses and with the ball at his feet. He has the potential to become a top keeper, which Vicario will never become.
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I don’t agree, I think Vic is better at 90% of it and 30 isn’t old for a keeper.

I also think that Madrid performance will always be in Kinsky’s locker, I think it’s a huge gamble having him as number one.

Fair play though, opinions and all that. I hope you are right.
 
Baleforce said:
I don’t agree, I think Vic is better at 90% of it and 30 isn’t old for a keeper.

I also think that Madrid performance will always be in Kinsky’s locker, I think it’s a huge gamble having him as number one.

Fair play though, opinions and all that. I hope you are right.
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Vic is better on crosses and with the ball at his feet? Could make an argument about shot stopping but even that isn't clear, but the other two are, Kinsky is miles better.
30 isn't old for a keeper but it is old for getting rid of the flaws in his game. It's highly unlikely that he'll improve on crosses and even more unlikely that he'll improve with the ball at his feet.
 
DubSpur said:
Vic is better on crosses and with the ball at his feet? Could make an argument about shot stopping but even that isn't clear, but the other two are, Kinsky is miles better.
30 isn't old for a keeper but it is old for getting rid of the flaws in his game. It's highly unlikely that he'll improve on crosses and even more unlikely that he'll improve with the ball at his feet.
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I think there isn’t much in it on crosses.

And I don’t want keepers having the ball at their feet so that isn’t a factor for me.
 
Baleforce said:
I don’t agree, I think Vic is better at 90% of it and 30 isn’t old for a keeper.

I also think that Madrid performance will always be in Kinsky’s locker, I think it’s a huge gamble having him as number one.

Fair play though, opinions and all that. I hope you are right.
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So, distribution, kicking, commanding the area and not getting absolutely bullied on every set piece, only amounts to 10% of the goalkeepers role.
OK.....
Kinsky has proven that he's just as good as Vic on reaction saves. The only thing I think Vic is significantly better at, is long range shots.
 
Kandi1977 said:
So, distribution, kicking, commanding the area and not getting absolutely bullied on every set piece, only amounts to 10% of the goalkeepers role.
OK.....
Kinsky has proven that he's just as good as Vic on reaction saves. The only thing I think Vic is significantly better at, is long range shots.
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I think 99% is making saves.
 
It's easy to like Vicario because he cared and fully bought in to the club and our ambitions.

Enough time had passed though, to realise his limitations and most of them revolved around the modern game ie commanding your box and being good with the ball at your feet. Miles off in those areas.

Also, the constant mad Italian waiter act is not for me...it instills an edginess and panic to those in front. Plus the blaming anyone but yourself (especially when he picked on youngsters) is not a good look.

Good luck big Vic ...Juve are an iconic club.
 
ricky2tricky4city said:
It's easy to like Vicario because he cared and fully bought in to the club and our ambitions.

Enough time had passed though, to realise his limitations and most of them revolved around the modern game ie commanding your box and being good with the ball at your feet. Miles off in those areas.

Also, the constant mad Italian waiter act is not for me...it instills an edginess and panic to those in front. Plus the blaming anyone but yourself (especially when he picked on youngsters) is not a good look.

Good luck big Vic ...Juve are an iconic club.
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He ultimately was found wanting in the most unforgiving Premier League, but do think some of the criticism has been overboard.

He is still a good goalkeeper, and have no doubts he will prove himself to be one of the best goalkeepers in the Italian league - just as he was when we signed him.....
 
robp135 said:
Kinsky is better.
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We don't know that yet.

We are about to see Kinsky for his first full PL season - it will have ups and downs, it will show his brilliance and expose his flaws. We have no idea if he can be consistent yet.

I've been impressed with Kinsky since his first game for us, and he's clearly worked hard the last 1.5 seasons to improve his game and his stature. He's 23 now and looks like a man.

23 is a good age to start a PL career as a GK, but is also young. We will need to be patient and understanding.

Whether he's better - right now I think he's probably equal, but seems to be a more positive and balanced character.
 
Raziel said:
Underestimated by fans, his best saves are some of the greatest I've ever seen, the games like Monaco where he kept us in all by himself were there. His stats in the first couple of seasons are right up there.

His downfall was his footwork in the modern game and the fact he unfortunately was keeper in the timeframe where Ref's allowed sides (cough, City and Arsenal) to mug keepers, and idiot commentators defended it (and as usual, our fans lapped it up).

He never was prime Lloris, but comparisons to keepers like Robbo (love the guy, but couldn't save anything from 18+ yards out) and Friedel (stuck to his line) are OTT. If Vic had played in Friedel's time, he would easily be rated way higher.
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I think you’re letting him off too lightly. As Finney said, he has no physical presence whatsoever and typically stays rooted to his line. He also conceded a number of long-range efforts last season that were stoppable, despite all the talk of his famed shot-stopping ability. Not to mention his poor footwork and general nervousness, which can have a knock-on effect on the entire back four when the goalkeeper lacks confidence.
 
Vicario was a good shot stopper that needed instant reflex movement. Close up or sudden deflections. But his ball anticipation for long range shots was awful and he often moved too late and lost flight of the ball. Then there was his ball playing ability that whilst not awful was prone to the odd mess up. Then we get to Corners and Free kicks. In the premier league you just cannot be bad at this and the amount of goals he cost us from either losing a ball in flight, getting out muscled to a cross or just not coming and claming them is crazy. Every set peice with him in goal was worrying and every team played on it.

Kinsky is is also a good shopt stopped as we have seen in those last 7 games and in pre-season. His ball tracking for long range shots seems good to me. The weakness he currently has and I have seen it in more than one game is hard and low shots close to his body. He tries to save them too often and just needs to deflect them with his feet. I am sure the coaching staff are working on that with him. Despite that horror game in Madrid he has shown his character to come back from that stronger. he has a good frame, some upper body strength and is good at punching and corners and wont be out muscled. That madrid game was a one off.

We have a sure pair of hands in Kinsky in the air and on the ground. He needs to work on his close body saves. Vicario I like but for his flaws in the EPL he had to leave. Kinsky will get better and better whilst Vicario has hit his plateau now.
 
monkeybarry said:
We don't know that yet.

We are about to see Kinsky for his first full PL season - it will have ups and downs, it will show his brilliance and expose his flaws. We have no idea if he can be consistent yet.

I've been impressed with Kinsky since his first game for us, and he's clearly worked hard the last 1.5 seasons to improve his game and his stature. He's 23 now and looks like a man.

23 is a good age to start a PL career as a GK, but is also young. We will need to be patient and understanding.

Whether he's better - right now I think he's probably equal, but seems to be a more positive and balanced character.
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We are famous for that.
 
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