Guglielmo Vicario

[Mrs Vert]

It would be really nice today if Vic doesn't have a mare or shout at youngsters

 

[harr1984]

It would be really nice today if Vic doesn't have a mare or shout at youngsters

Yeah this would be a great time to comeback and have one of his good games. He will be tested today, we need him to have one of those performances he has where he makes a load of great saves....

 

[glasgowspur]

It wasn't at the wrong time, the whole point is to play that pass with an opposition player close to him - it's by design.

As for saying it's Gray's error well he was just stating the obvious, it's not like he's crucified him for it....

There's more than one way to break the press, gray pulled men with him leaving a gap, rather than play for gap Vic chose to play the most dangerous pass, that for me is on Vic.
Just because Frank thinks it's grays fault doesn't make it so, he can be wrong .

 

[glasgowspur]

Yeah this would be a great time to comeback and have one of his good games. He will be tested today, we need him to have one of those performances he has where he makes a load of great saves....

I'd rather he didn't have to, would be much more enjoyable to be up other and Vics only involvement is dramatically falling on the ball to kill time and annoy the scousers.

 

[harr1984]

There's more than one way to break the press, gray pulled men with him leaving a gap, rather than play for gap Vic chose to play the most dangerous pass, that for me is on Vic.
Just because Frank thinks it's grays fault doesn't make it so, he can be wrong .

Frank is the manager, Frank instructs the team how to play. So if Frank is saying Gray made the error then

1) It's because he did, he lost the ball no one else, and whilst the ball wasn't pin point perfect it wasn't bad either
2) It's how the manager wants us to play. Frank can't be wrong about how he wants his team to play, whether you agree with it or not.

If Frank didn't want Vicario to do what he did he would have said he made the error passing to Gray. Of course a manager can be wrong about things, but when talking about a breakdown from playing out then the manager knows better than anyone how he wants that to work, so he knows who made the error - it would be far easier for him to blame the keeper for it. He mentioned another example that was a Vicario 'mis-clearance' so he's quite happy to say when it's his error....

 

[Bedfordspurs]

Yeah this would be a great time to comeback and have one of his good games. He will be tested today, we need him to have one of those performances he has where he makes a load of great saves....

Depends how many shots we let from distance

 

[Muttley]

I think there is a couple of aspects to this that may not have been considered.

When we see the passion that comes from Vic in the heat of the moment, I think it is quite easy to project British cultural values and call it wrong. The thing is, he's Italian. I do remember my first meeting in Rome sitting in a room full of Italians. Trust me, I was the anomaly who wasn't shouting passionately and waving my arms around. I was being British and acting a bit shocked.

The second aspect to consider is perhaps Frank might be giving Archie a life lesson. Perhaps he's making the young guy a bit harder as a person by subtly giving him the responsibility for the goal. I know when I've watched Archie I've seen the naivety of a genuinely good guy getting outdone by the older players that are more devious and more streetwise. I'm sure if you looked at a 20 year old Declan Rice, it wouldn't be that different from what we see with Archie.

 

[Baleforce]

Of course he's going to say that, he's told Vic to do it, it's Frank's mistake in the beginning.
Vicc can also follow instructions but do it badly or at the wrong time, that's still Vics mistake.
Either way if Frank has laid it on gray I see that as bad form, what's wrong with giving usual presser non answer.

It’s on Frank, we shouldn’t be passing the ball about at the back.

It’s idiotic high risk football.

 

[metalgear]

TF needs to try Kinski - some competition is good for places.
Kinski has good distribution and isn't a hot headed madman that even our defence ignores.

 

[DeanoAustin]

TF needs to try Kinski - some competition is good for places.
Kinski has good distribution and isn't a hot headed madman that even our defence ignores.
View attachment 21280

Dunno, has Vic done much wrong lately to deserve being dropped?

I hate stats like this and I think how it’s framed is really unfair to Vic. It should read “Tottenham have conceded more goals from outside the box than anyone else.”

There no context here. We leave the area in front of our box very exposed regularly which makes it much easier for opposition players to get good shots away under less pressure than you’d expect. That’s not Vic’s fault. Yes he’s let in a few soft ones (and made some great saves) but the way this is framed infers that Vicario is the weakest keeper in the league at dealing with shots from distance and I’m not sure that’s accurate or fair.

 

[metalgear]

Dunno, has Vic done much wrong lately to deserve being dropped?

I hate stats like this and I think how it’s framed is really unfair to Vic. It should read “Tottenham have conceded more goals from outside the box than anyone else.”

There no context here. We leave the area in front of our box very exposed regularly which makes it much easier for opposition players to get good shots away under less pressure than you’d expect. That’s not Vic’s fault. Yes he’s let in a few soft ones (and made some great saves) but the way this is framed infers that Vicario is the weakest keeper in the league at dealing with shots from distance and I’m not sure that’s accurate or fair.

yeah stats like these are very narrow indeed.

i often like to think the reverse - what if we our strikers get good shots on goal
far too often opposing keepers are playing blinders when they meet us

then again the sloppy goals should not happen AT ALL. if the defence is not confident of the keeper, you can't have good organisation.

but agree that its not definitive - hence "try" kinski

 

[Raziel]

Dunno, has Vic done much wrong lately to deserve being dropped?

I hate stats like this and I think how it’s framed is really unfair to Vic. It should read “Tottenham have conceded more goals from outside the box than anyone else.”

There no context here. We leave the area in front of our box very exposed regularly which makes it much easier for opposition players to get good shots away under less pressure than you’d expect. That’s not Vic’s fault. Yes he’s let in a few soft ones (and made some great saves) but the way this is framed infers that Vicario is the weakest keeper in the league at dealing with shots from distance and I’m not sure that’s accurate or fair.

It's worse, our manager actively believes shots from zone 14 are acceptable to allow as low percentage (1 in 16 is standard IIRC), and isn't registering that because we allow those shots, the opposition know it, prepare for it and we are conceding at something like 1 in 11.

If you give PL level players time and space to pick a shot from 20-25 yards out, you will concede.

The issues with Vic are more coming out for crosses and set pieces (our record is actually good defending set pieces) and distribution. I'd like to understand what our manager is trying to do before swapping for a keeper who may be better with feet but worse at shot stopping.

That said, my expectation is he will be replaced in summer

 

[Muttley]

Dunno, has Vic done much wrong lately to deserve being dropped?

I hate stats like this and I think how it’s framed is really unfair to Vic. It should read “Tottenham have conceded more goals from outside the box than anyone else.”

There no context here. We leave the area in front of our box very exposed regularly which makes it much easier for opposition players to get good shots away under less pressure than you’d expect. That’s not Vic’s fault. Yes he’s let in a few soft ones (and made some great saves) but the way this is framed infers that Vicario is the weakest keeper in the league at dealing with shots from distance and I’m not sure that’s accurate or fair.

It's only on Vic really if we believe he should have stopped them. With him, he's such a good shot stopper that I really don't see that accusation being levelled at him.

 

[Muttley]

It's worse, our manager actively believes shots from zone 14 are acceptable to allow as low percentage (1 in 16 is standard IIRC), and isn't registering that because we allow those shots, the opposition know it, prepare for it and we are conceding at something like 1 in 11.

If you give PL level players time and space to pick a shot from 20-25 yards out, you will concede.

The issues with Vic are more coming out for crosses and set pieces (our record is actually good defending set pieces) and distribution. I'd like to understand what our manager is trying to do before swapping for a keeper who may be better with feet but worse at shot stopping.

That said, my expectation is he will be replaced in summer

Nah, don't think Frank was saying that. He was saying that they are less likely to score from Zone 14 BUT when we are doing the right things defensively as well. Stands to reason if you give them space to get the ball in the right place to get a clean strike away unopposed then you are in trouble. He'll be wanting them to do enough to obstruct that clean strike without compromising the risk of a through ball.

This one reminds me of Ange with set pieces in season 1. We talked about it all season and only saw change to tactics in late season. It was probably the difference between 4th and 5th in the league. He kept being asked about it at the pressers and kept being dismissive. Then finally, it was picked up on commentary how he had actually changes the balance between blockers, markers and zonal defending in the end of season games. I don't recall talking about it at all really in season 2 and if you had patience then you believed the right thing to do was let him change things slowly but permanently. I guess that's what we need to do with Frank.

 

[Spur of the moment]

Get the impression Vicario has been making far fewer of those blinding saves like he made in his first season with us.

But not sure Kinsky is the answer. He's conceded at least two goals in all but one of his League appearances for us since arrival, with results against PL opposition in both league and cup competitions quite scary: W L L L W L L L L L L. Unfortunate for him that we're out of both domestic cups already, he probably needed a run of games in the early rounds at that level.