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Government U-Turn

parklane1 said:
Would not disagree normally, but to many makes them look life they are making it up as they go along.
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Exactly.

Southstand, you're running the risk of attempting to defend the indefensible.

Government is there to govern; not - as parklane suggests - make it up as they go along. That's incredibly weak and doesn't inspire confidence at all. It's not about "democracy" - it's about having a plan; a strategy, one born out of intelligence and sound thought - or at least you'd hope. If said strategy and plan is so easily manipulated by the media and public opinion, then it doesn't exactly give rise to there being much faith, thought or conviction in the policies which are being drawn-up, does it?

That's poor government; amateurish and flaky, open to out-manoeuvre. Too many backtracks and U-turns, and the public and/or otherwise disaffected groups will know that all they need do is kick up a bit of a fuss, and the policy will be changed. How could you possibly interpret THAT as strong government?

Being in government is about having the conviction and bottle to make tough decisions - and then sticking to them; trying to please everyone, all of the time, just isn't going to work. You have to accept that in life you're always going to have winners and losers, and it's about how you sell that message which counts.

Thus far, all this government has shown is that, when confronted with a difficult sell, it merely changes tact. That's unbelievably poor and, as I said, were this selective in a corporate environment, they'd have - democratically mind - been asked to kindly clear their desks.
 
If we had a Tory government, led by a Tory, we wouldn't see the u-turns

But we don't, so we do

It's still 6 trillion times better than a Labour government
 
Whilst I agree, there have been many publicised U-turns, that is clear. However, 'austerity' is definitely a hard sell and that appears to be going forward, and to be fair, that has to be the mother of all 'sales'.
 
THFC said:
Whilst I agree, there have been many publicised U-turns, that is clear. However, 'austerity' is definitely a hard sell and that appears to be going forward, and to be fair, that has to be the mother of all 'sales'.
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Well there's austerity, and there's austerity-lite.

Greece - now that's proper fudging austerity. We, on the other hand, have a somewhat softer version; cutting back, but not so much as you're going to set fire to yourself or jump off a cliff. Yeah people don't like it, but people are also generally realists and can see the world around them.

The thing is though, the country can only pull away from austerity-laden policy if its economy begins to grow again. This isn't happening in the UK. Now you could propose many reasons for that, but markets closely follow the actions of politicians and therefore the strength of government in power. If investors see weakness, then they're not going to take risks which they otherwise might've. And without any shadow of a doubt, constantly changing policy and stance IS viewed as weak government.

Markets like certainty and strong government plays a huge role in bond and futures markets. Trust me, dithering around like this is NOT doing the UK economy any favours whatsoever. For confidence to be revived, we need strong and consistent government and one which will not sway one way or t'other depending on whichever way the wind happens to be blowing. Remember, a lot of these policies will have been costed into Budgets ergo any meandering around will have a financial impact, and it's those sorts of 'known unknowns' which cause economists the most worry.
 
southstand1882 said:
Well yes, that's utopia.

But serious question, which would you rather have.

I won't bother listing the brick Labour policies that were rammed down ALL of our throats.

I just don't think u-turns are necessarily a bad thing. A u-turn smells of democracy.
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Its good you wont do that, because it is not relevant. A discussion on what the current government is doing shouldnt involve labour. And you always blame Labour for everything that happened while they were in power, so you cant start defending this government by saying labour would be doing worse... judging by what is happening now it would be more appropriate to start discussing how much worse the tories would have done in the 'good years'.
 
Sheikh Ma Nuggets said:
Exactly.

Southstand, you're running the risk of attempting to defend the indefensible.

Government is there to govern; not - as parklane suggests - make it up as they go along. That's incredibly weak and doesn't inspire confidence at all. It's not about "democracy" - it's about having a plan; a strategy, one born out of intelligence and sound thought - or at least you'd hope. If said strategy and plan is so easily manipulated by the media and public opinion, then it doesn't exactly give rise to there being much faith, thought or conviction in the policies which are being drawn-up, does it?

That's poor government; amateurish and flaky, open to out-manoeuvre. Too many backtracks and U-turns, and the public and/or otherwise disaffected groups will know that all they need do is kick up a bit of a fuss, and the policy will be changed. How could you possibly interpret THAT as strong government?

Being in government is about having the conviction and bottle to make tough decisions - and then sticking to them; trying to please everyone, all of the time, just isn't going to work. You have to accept that in life you're always going to have winners and losers, and it's about how you sell that message which counts.

Thus far, all this government has shown is that, when confronted with a difficult sell, it merely changes tact. That's unbelievably poor and, as I said, were this selective in a corporate environment, they'd have - democratically mind - been asked to kindly clear their desks.
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100%. I do believe they know what they need to do. They just don't have the gonads to do it.
 
markysimmo said:
Has your holiday been crap or something ?? youve posted nearly as much as Arcspace does in a day since youve been there...
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Have you got a 2 year old girl? No. When you do you'll realise this place on my iPhone is a welcome diversion my friend. Carefree holidays where you please yourself are GONE FOREVER.
 
Golfball said:
Its good you wont do that, because it is not relevant. A discussion on what the current government is doing shouldnt involve labour. And you always blame Labour for everything that happened while they were in power, so you cant start defending this government by saying labour would be doing worse... judging by what is happening now it would be more appropriate to start discussing how much worse the tories would have done in the 'good years'.
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We wouldn't of had any debt to start with if the Tories governed from 97-2010.
 
Leeds Spur said:
But the JSF decision will save billions and well have two QE2 class carriers rather than one. That is an example of the right decision even though it cost money. I'd add it's the 100,000 clowns at the MoD that let the government down as they changed their recommendations. As someone quite famous said, 'when the facts change I change my mind, what do you do sir'?
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I wonder if they were really considering the facts whether they'd be ordering the F35 at all, B or C. Both seem inadequate to the task. As you say, the facts presumably come from the MoD, to whom an accurate estimate of costs seems an entirely alien concept (the carriers were to cost ?ú2.8b to begin with, we're up to about 6bn already...), so if (when) they come up with another set of numbers for this, do we change path again?

And I think the word used with regard to the Prince Of Wales (the ship, not the weatherman) is "might" be put into service. Actually that refers to the weatherman too.

Anyway that's rather specific about that particular u-turn. As a general point, I want to see decisive government, particularly now, but they seem too often to act fast and think about it properly later. It doesn't inspire confidence.
 
Leeds Spur said:
We wouldn't of had any debt to start with if the Tories governed from 97-2010.
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Why? look at the people they had in the party at the time and I dont think there has ever been a more stupid set of tories.

The whole of europe and america is stuggling, but those idiots would have had the uk debt free ? is that what you are asking me to believe ?
 
Australia instituted a stimulus package under Labour and guess what it is one of the few western nations not struggling. Now is not the time for surplus. Keynes lives!
 
Golfball said:
Why? look at the people they had in the party at the time and I dont think there has ever been a more stupid set of tories.

The whole of europe and america is stuggling, but those idiots would have had the uk debt free ? is that what you are asking me to believe ?
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The fact we ran a surplus from 98 onwards tells me all I need to know. Labour kept the Tory spending plans in the first term they were in. Remember Brown and his 'prudence'? You really do know fudge all don't you? Run along.
 
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Lol. Australia has massive mining interests keeping the economy moving. Stimulus has nowt to do with it. We are a long fudging way from surplus. Try 192 billion deficit in 2010. Even getting near to break even is a wild dream. Compared to all other spending the UKs lack of austerity is a relative Stimulus. The cuts are a myth
 
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Leeds Spur said:
Lol. Australia has massive mining interests keeping the economy moving. Stimulus has nowt to do with it. We are a long fudging way from surplus. Try 192 billion deficit in 2010. Even getting near to break even is a wild dream. Compared to all other spending the UKs lack of austerity is a relative Stimulus. The cuts are a myth
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I'm talking about the response to the least GFC, before the mining boom really took off. BTW, the mining boom is only happening in two states, WA and QLD. You need growth and the best way is to stimulate. Just because you may feel debt was bad five years ago, doesnt mean it is bad now. Without it, growth will crawl along at low levels. Britain is already in recession.
 
But the taxes on mining are spent nationwide?

The uk could have increased spending in the passed 3 years, ( we are spending more in absolute terms though) and still be in recession. Just like Labour point out, we are in a global recession and we cannot change the course of the global economy. Europe is in a far fr far worse situation that us because we have a plan that we're sticking to. Bond yields, the money we are borrowing to pay the bills,(1 in 4 pounds spent!!) is at record lows of 1.65% the same as the US!!! Why?

If Spain and Italy go bust we are royally fudged. No amount of stimulus will count for a jot.
 
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